What do Europeans have in common?

[Iskender Bey]

Apparently none of the like the French;

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Britons described them as "chauvinists, stubborn, nannied and humourless". However, the French may be more shocked by the views of other nations.

For the Germans, the French are "pretentious, offhand and frivolous". The Dutch describe them as "agitated, talkative and shallow." The Spanish see them as "cold, distant, vain and impolite" and the Portuguese as "preaching". In Italy they comes across as "snobs, arrogant, flesh-loving, righteous and self-obsessed" and the Greeks find them "not very with it, egocentric bons vivants".

Interestingly, the Swedes consider them "disobedient, immoral, disorganised, neo-colonialist and dirty".

But the knockout punch to French pride came in the way the poll was conducted. People were not asked what they hated in the French, just what they thought of them.

"Interviewees were simply asked an open question - what five adjectives sum up the French," said Olivier Clodong, one of the study's two authors and a professor of social and political communication at the Ecole Superieur de Commerce, in Paris. "The answers were overwhelmingly negative."

According to Mr Clodong, the old adage that France is wonderful, it's just the French who are the problem, is shared across Europe.

"We are admired for our trains, the Airbus and Michelin tyres. But the buck stops there," he said.

Another section of the study deals with how the French see the rest of Europe.

"Believe it or not, the English and the French use almost exactly the same adjectives to describe each other - bar the word 'insular'," Mr Coldong said. "So the feelings are mutual."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../ixnewstop.html

LOL, what exactly is "nannies"? Well I can assume.

[DougyM]

this is quite old.

Besides, its about time we euros actualy stopped slagging eachother and got on.... 450 million of us... i mean, you would think we could find something good incommon (apart from french bashing)

Though i do hate Chiraq and his whole agenda, plus any of the french who vandalised british and allied war graves.

[Iskender Bey]

You love us really
Europeans believe the French to be arrogant, disobedient, rude and promiscuous, according to a new study. All true, says Agnès Poirier. And we Gauls wouldn't have it any other way

Wednesday May 18, 2005
The Guardian


t's like the Proms. It comes back every year, nobody remembers when it actually started (as it has always been here), and the programme is more or less the same with a few new variations each time: I solemnly declare the French-bashing season open! A new study would have us believe that Europeans loathe the French. And to make it look more serious, this report has been compiled by two Frenchmen. Ooh la la! As a true European, citizen of the world, French-born and British resident, let me rise to the defence of my countrymen and try to explain what may lie below the surface.

So, what do we learn in this study? When asked how they view the French, every nationality in the panel has a different answer. Yet there are recurrent and common grudges. Simply put - since indeed only five adjectives to describe the French were asked of those questioned - they are viewed as: "arrogant, pretentious, rude, promiscuous, disobedient."

Arrogance, first. The French arrogant? Yes, they are. Of course, they are. How could they not be arrogant? Have you ever been to France? A country where trains arrive on the dot, the health system is still the best in the world, girls are beautiful (and thin), best friends of 20 years fall out over the European referendum and grammatical issues, people kiss endlessly almost everywhere, take to the streets at the slightest whim, discuss for hours the way to cook coq au vin, cry when they read Voltaire. How can they not be arrogant when they have so many reasons to be proud of their country?

Also, their arrogance is not like any arrogance, it's pretty straightforward, pretty childlike. In other words, endearing. It says, "We are the best", while deep down they know very well they are not. Their arrogance is like that of a barking poodle. Annoying, perhaps, but of no great consequence for the world. Nothing like British arrogance, which is of the ultimate kind. British arrogance never says "we are the best" as it goes without saying. That's why the British are so polite to foreigners. Foreigners will never threaten their superiority, as it is far beyond anybody's reach.

Pretentious? Yes, definitely. It goes hand in hand with arrogance and frivolity. French pretentiousness comes mainly from two things: their sense of aesthetics and their love of their language. In France, style is the norm, while abroad, style is deemed as unnecessary, ultimately vain, and therefore pretentious. In France, it is normal to take care of how one looks, walks, talks, of how one might be perceived by others. Looking at others and being looked at is quintessentially French. It's not really a game or a code; the French are born like this, that's how they relate to each other. Their love for their mother tongue, meanwhile, has been universally underestimated by foreigners who have long admitted defeat and bowed to the new lingua franca, namely the English language. The French will be the last to bow. Their attitude looks undoubtedly conceited, thus pretentious, but frankly isn't it quite also admirable?

Rude? Yes, indeed, they are very rude. And they are not sorry for it. However, rest assured that they are the first victims of their own rudeness. Never believe that taxi drivers and Parisian waiters are only rude to foreigners. They are rude to everybody. As for more everyday rudeness, others would call it straightforwardness. The French are no hypocrites, they don't apologise before insulting you. They don't warn before striking the first blow. They are not civilised that way, unlike their British friends.

Promiscuous? Yes, I guess they are. But no more so than their European neighbours. Stories about politicians leading double lives, with a wife/husband, a mistress/lover and children from both beds, will never make the headlines in France for it's - almost - everybody's daily bread. And why should this mean that you can't do your job properly - as is always thought in countries like Britain? Having a mistress or a lover means you're likely to cheat on your country or your employer? How ridiculous.

Disobedient? Er, yes, again. It would be difficult to hide the fact that the French are often on strike or plainly fighting against this and that. Tourists and business people know it all too well. The French are unruly, a real pain to govern. And when they are angry, well, heads roll. But again, don't you find their anger charming? Admit it, you love it.

There are yet more grudges borne by Europeans. But what they actually reveal has less to do with the French than with their own persona. The British find the French "humourless". How do you compare both senses of humour? And just because you don't understand somebody else's humour doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Have you ever heard a German joke? French humour is very much based on the language: puns, jeux de mots et d'esprit . French wit, one of the most refined (remember Ridicule? Remember Cyrano?), is based on language games. So go back to your French schoolbooks.

The Swedes, it is claimed, find the French "disorganised and neo-colonialist", which sounds like the complaint of distraught and unhappy rivals. The Spaniards see the French as "cold and distant" - the lament of a long-spurned lover. The Dutch describe the French as "talkative and shallow": do they mean lively and beautiful to look at? Italians think the French are "carnal, righteous and self-obsessed". I guess those Italian questioned thought they had to find adjectives to describe their fellow countrymen. Greeks dismiss the French as "out-of-touch and egocentric": sweet words coming from a country whose greatest achievements came two-and-a-half thousand years ago.

There are many ways of describing the French but if there is one thing this study proves is that the French don't leave anybody lost for words. Another way of looking at it is to remember the old French saying: qui aime bien, chtie bien (He who loves well, criticises well). At this point the conclusion becomes obvious: Europeans are secretly in love with the French. And as in all love stories, the French drive their lover crazy. But then, of course, you will just say that it's the arrogant romantic foolish French in me.

· Les Nouveaux Anglais, revisited clichés, by Agnès Poirier, will be released in English by Weidenfeld & Nicolson on April 24 2006.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1486117,00.html

[Otto von Lanstien]

Extremely interesting... and i'm afraid the viewpoints are true. (says the Brit).

[Erik]

I used to hate the French.

Mainly because, in my experiences and others, they took no efford at all to understand me if I didn't speak French perfectly.
Yet the only language THEY speak is French while I spoke Dutch, German, French and English.
I think they are just frustrated because English is the more important language.

In recent years I did notice a huge difference.
I think the French are learning more languages (to have better job opportunities), and this has taught them to respect other people more.
In 2000 I even met a French shopkeeper who learned Dutch (and pretty good too).

Don't get me wrong: I still think most French are arrogant, but not as much as they used to be.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

i don't know, personally I like the french over most flemish people i think they are more openminded to people with brown skin collor. a few days ago too. i went to the movies and while standing in line, this woman stood next to me and she had her purse on her side, then she noticed me (i'm brown skinned) and the first thing she does is take the purse and places it at her front and puts her sweater over it, whilst looking at me every 10 seconds. obviously this pissed me off, and this is getting somewhat standard in flanders, at least it keeps happening to me this weird reaction.
I never had this with french people. on the contrary i can have fun whith french people, we share cigarettes and drinks, we laugh etc...

(not all flemish people are like this, and it probably happens in other countries too, but it NEVER happend to me with french people)

[lecnac]

I am quite fond of the french since in contrast to those reporting in such surveys, I have quite often been to france, to calais,orange, marseille, metz, lyon...I like the climate and the atmosphere of ease I often encountered. Especially when compared to germany, which tends to be more rough, anonymous in direct comparrison.

After three wars I share the feeling with quite many german and french who do not wish our nations to struggle again...not only since france is too beautiful to be on vacation there to turn in into a battlefield, again. I think that desire for peace is the original engine behind the EU so maybe thats why people from the european isles dont get the concept as easily, having endured any european conflict since 1066 in pretty, isolated safety. ^_^

[Bovril]

Pretentious? Moi?

[Perkele]

French have beautiful women.

[htp']

I disagree. I like the American chicks. In shape, blonde hair, blue eyes, there it is *wink*

[Ulf]

blonde hair, blue eyes

eh...sound familiar?

...super race.... :whistle

[Bull Warrior]

I disagree. I like the American chicks. In shape, blonde hair, blue eyes, there it is

Women that have blonde hair, blue eyes are perfect not because they are american.

[Somebody Else]

Me, I like the French - they have delicious food, outstanding wine, gorgeous women, the language sounds good and the countryside is beautiful. Very few countries compare - Italy, maybe some others.

[Illyrian]

The most beautiful women i have ever met, at least european women, are swedish girls. thin, strong, and they turn me on like a light switch. By the way french are a little arrogant, but i have many french friends, and they are quite nice otherwise. Scandinavian women are beautiful, and after them I'd say Italian, French, Spanish, and oh my god, i forgot the Croatian women. *tongue*

[htp']

Originally posted by Ulf@May 27 2005, 08:00 PM

eh...sound familiar?

...super race.... :whistle

It's still hot though. Don't try to tell me it isn't, lol. I have brown hair and brown eyes and don't claim to be part of a "superrace".

And yes, they aren't beautiful because they're American, but I do like that "American" feel so..

I don't have anything against the French, although I've heard people from Paris give the French the arrogant reputation they have.

[Marshal Qin]

I have French friends (who came from Clermont Ferrand (sp) - where Michelin tyres is) who didn't understand why French have such a bad reputation for arrogance until they met parisians on holiday in China.
From what I've seen of the people of the world, we are all the same. We are all groups of diverse individuals. There is no 1 country with more beautiful, smarter, more arrogant, or whatever people. There are only different governments. People are people - even Americans *tongue*

[Rusty Catapult]

Originally posted by Erik@May 27 2005, 05:07 PM
Mainly because, in my experiences and others, they took no efford at all to understand me if I didn't speak French perfectly.
Yet the only language THEY speak is French while I spoke Dutch, German, French and English.
I think they are just frustrated because English is the more important language.

In recent years I did notice a huge difference.
I think the French are learning more languages (to have better job opportunities), and this has taught them to respect other people more.

Well, that's a first :p
Over here (Québec) it's near impossible to find a non-francophone that can speak french (this is especially the case with anglophones). Well, it's as we say : in Canada, to be bilingual is to be French :p We learn english just so we don't suffer from too much disrespect from our anglophone friends for simply being frenchies. But I guess it's just different in France.
Ouf, this is so flammable material :erm

[PROFESSORPAUL]

Will Europe ever get along?

Its bad enough what's happened to their continent ever since the Roman Empire rose to power and whats happened since today. 100 Year's War, World War 1, World War 2, Medieval Ages, Napolean Boncarte, etc...

The list just goes on and on. And they STILL continue to feud. They should be thankful they even got this far after what they had all gone through.

[R4P]

The French are ok; all though their idea of fries are: take a potato, peel it (but not entirely, you still want to see some skin), cut it in half, fry it and serve it to those Belgian guys, it‘ll make them feel at home. :grin

People I don’t like are the Spanish who work at airports. Lazy :wub:ers, that’s what they are, with no respect for peoples luggage. :angry I've been to Spain 3 times and every time the same :wub: with those people. Usually only at the airport though.

[R4P]

Originally posted by PROFESSORPAUL@May 28 2005, 12:19 AM
Napolean Boncarte

Napoleon Bonaparte (bon carte *tongue*)