Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

  1. #1

    Default Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    Hi all, it was recommended I put this here, so:

    Jarldom of Hordaland. Must be lead by a Jarl. It cannot be a Jarldom without this. If It is lead by a king, namely Eirik, then it must be a kingdom. This seems like quite straightforward logic to me, and if there is a special circumstance that keeps it from being a kingdom, please let me know.
    "For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it, incredulity." - Pericles, Funeral Oration

    "English bastards!" - the Scottish AAR!

    The Grass is ALWAYS Greener: the Dark Tale of Mordor

    Want to publish an article on any aspect of history? PM or email me at shistory@speculativehistory.co.uk, or visit http://www.speculativehistory.co.uk. if you just want to learn something new.

  2. #2
    danova's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Hungary / Budapest
    Posts
    4,668

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    It is very obvious that a Jarl leads the Jarldoms.
    It is only one thing that the preview has it like this but I have to check it in the game. I need to check if it is possible to name the leader Jarl and not king (like in the vanila game).
    .

  3. #3
    Senator
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    In the icey lands of Norway... which aren't actually icey... more like rainy.
    Posts
    1,238

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    Quote Originally Posted by danova View Post
    It is very obvious that a Jarl leads the Jarldoms.
    It is only one thing that the preview has it like this but I have to check it in the game. I need to check if it is possible to name the leader Jarl and not king (like in the vanila game).
    .
    It is perfectly possible, and quite easy. Just minor text-editing.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    Excellent!
    "For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it, incredulity." - Pericles, Funeral Oration

    "English bastards!" - the Scottish AAR!

    The Grass is ALWAYS Greener: the Dark Tale of Mordor

    Want to publish an article on any aspect of history? PM or email me at shistory@speculativehistory.co.uk, or visit http://www.speculativehistory.co.uk. if you just want to learn something new.

  5. #5
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Miðaldir
    Posts
    6,679
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    I remember there was a High king....right?
    So is there any way, shape or form possible to implement it? It would be a cool system, like the crowning in HRR mod, etc.

    Historical ways to get the titles (or anchilliarys/retinues):
    • Gather all of Norway
    • Destroy the other faction
    • Gather certin settlements (both Oslo and "Bergen")


    Maybe even compare TATW system, and how they modded the pope system. This High king(Sauron/Pope)system can also start a horde/pillage toward a settlement. Yesss complicated, but that would be the ultimate stuff.
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; May 24, 2009 at 07:40 PM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    Jarl is like an earl/duke, Vestfold and Hordaland were petty kingdoms led by Kings.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    Right now we have it as a Jarldom with the leader called Jarl so that when you take all of Norway he will be a King. It's to make it a bit more "special"

  8. #8
    Herr Lindstrom's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    in your head
    Posts
    494

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    just throwing this idea out there but why not have every Hordaland character have the name Jarl first then their actual name eg: Jarl Olaf

  9. #9
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Miðaldir
    Posts
    6,679
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    ....to act as a "jarl" of a settlement? Why not have badges for each governor? Like the DLV-system, if you have tried it; whenever a general stays in a settlement for the first time, he will get an Ancillaries: "Lord of Oslo", "Governor of Bergen", Caliph of Istanbul", etc.
    Why not have such a badge-system with the name: "Jarl/earl of Oslo", "Storbonde of Bergen"(cheif farmer of Bergen), etc?


    Im not a real historien on this, jet, but only a suggestion (yes it drives you crazy).
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; May 27, 2009 at 12:26 AM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    ....to act as a "jarl" of a settlement? Why not have badges for each governor? Like the DLV-system, if you have tried it; whenever a general stays in a settlement for the first time, he will get an Ancillaries: "Lord of Oslo", "Governor of Bergen", Caliph of Istanbul", etc.
    Why not have such a badge-system with the name: "Jarl/earl of Oslo", "Storbonde of Bergen"(cheif farmer of Bergen), etc?


    Im not a real historien on this, jet, but only a suggestion (yes it drives you crazy).
    that's not really a DLV original... Most mods I've used use that system. It's a good system though, really provides a lot of immersion as well. (although I'm picky and don't want one noble to hold more than one title, so I spread it around like it's no-ones business)

    I play: Third Age, Broken Crescent, Stainless Steel
    I wait for: Broken Crescent 1.5, The Last Kingdom, Dominion of the Sword

  11. #11

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    Quote Originally Posted by Add1ct View Post
    that's not really a DLV original... Most mods I've used use that system. It's a good system though, really provides a lot of immersion as well. (although I'm picky and don't want one noble to hold more than one title, so I spread it around like it's no-ones business)
    Why not? It was exceptionally common. Do you want to hear the list that Queen Elizabeth II holds, at the moment?

    And if it is lead by a king, no matter how petty, it is not a Jarldom, it is a kingdom. Just, a small one, like.
    "For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it, incredulity." - Pericles, Funeral Oration

    "English bastards!" - the Scottish AAR!

    The Grass is ALWAYS Greener: the Dark Tale of Mordor

    Want to publish an article on any aspect of history? PM or email me at shistory@speculativehistory.co.uk, or visit http://www.speculativehistory.co.uk. if you just want to learn something new.

  12. #12
    spartan455's Avatar Foederatus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarl_(title)#Norway

    here you can see what Jarl \ Earl means

    this get funn i live in Hordaland
    Last edited by spartan455; June 11, 2009 at 05:26 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan455 View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarl_(title)#Norway

    here you can see what Jarl \ Earl means

    this get funn i live in Hordaland
    Hil Min Nordiske broder! Må Thors hammer og Tyrs økse være med dig og over dine fjender!
    The rest of the text will be in English.
    That Link Spartan had found are not of any use because it destribes Norways relation to Iceland, not why the ruler of Norway had the title Jarl or King.

    The numbers inside the () is which years the reigned, not when they lived

    The matter if Norway had an Jarl of an King is problematic because doing the time from the danlish king Harald Bluetooth (reign started in 958) to Canute the great(reign ended in 1035), Norway had changingen ruler.
    Doing the Time of Harald Bluetooth a man named Harald Greycloak (961-976) seized the power of Norway, He did though started a rulers of Lade whom was allied of the Danish King Harald whom striked and conquered Harald Greycloak Norway and killed Greycloak doing this because of this King Harald was now both king of Denmark and Norway, the de facto ruler was however not Harald, it was Håkon Jarl, the son of the murdered lord of Lade. (971-995) This alliance did though broke between the King and Jarl, Håkon did not however claim Kinghood of Norway.
    When Harald Bluetooth died in a power struggle against his own son Sweyn Forkbeard (985/986-1014 of Denmark) he also became king of Norway, though he was not on good terms with Håkon
    (I remember reading he supported a large scale attack on Norway by the Jomsvikings (He did not lead it, but he did aprove it)) He was infact the King of Norway, but didn't do anything to claim it really (He was busy conquering England as the first danlish King since the Son of Ragnar attacked England)
    In 995 Both Sweyn and Håkon lost control of Norway and the latter his life to Olaf Trygvasson (995-1000) (the first christian ruler of Norway and another son of a ruler of Lade)

    He decleared Norway as indepenten of Denmark and crown himself as King of Norway
    He however, lasted not long, because in a coaliation of Sweden, Denmark and the sons of the Dead

    Håkon (Sveinn and Eirik (Erik)) won over King Olaf and Norway was splitted up in Sweden owned (the smaller) parts of Norway with they Jarl Sveinn (1000-1015) as ruler and Sweyn Forkbeard pointed out Jarl Erik (1000—1012) as their de facto ruler in theirs territory of Norway (Including Hordaland!), and after the death of Erik he son Håkon (1012-1015 and 1028-1029) ruled.
    Note again that Norway once again is Vassal of Denmark (and Sweden) and therefore not indepenten. (King Sweyn Forkbeard is still noted as the King of Norway and the Swedish King are not, maybe because Sweyn had claim on that title? anyhow)

    However, After the Death of Sweyn Forkbeard (King of Denmark, Norway AND England) Olaf Digre (the fat) later known as the Saint conquered Norway from both uncle and nephew and again crowned himself King of Norway (1015-1028). Norway is again indepenten! With a King not an Jarl.


    He was killed in a rebellion which was supported by Canute the Great of England and Denmark (son of Sweyn Forkbeard) He with claimed the lordship of Norway and he sent in as regent Erik Håkonson (from before) later Canutes son 1030-1035 took the regent position after the Death of Erik he died the same year as his father
    In 1035 when Canute the Great died, the son of the now saint Olaf - Magnus claimed lordship over Norway (he later became king of Denmark, but did never have a regent of Norway)
    There i end with Magnus (the Good) is because here the "Jarl of Norway" idea ends. after Magnus there were none Jarl of Norway simple as that

    You might ask what are the point of this? the answer is simple You are asking the wrong question, you ask "Should an Jarldom have a king as a roler?" when you should ask "Is Hordaland a Kingdom or an Jarldom?" Historical, it started out as one of many kingdoms in Norway, and after king Harald Fairhair (862-933) Hordaland have been the major kingdom in Norway (though it Seemed that Harald conquered Hordaland (this I got from Wikipedia but I'm still unsure anyway that is not the matter))
    It started out as a kingdom but between Harald and Magnus the Good there was 14 regents of Norway, 7 Jarls and 7 kings this is between the years 862 and 1047 (one of the Jarls however was not under the kingdom of Denmark, still he did not crown himself king)
    I'll say Norway or Hordaland is more likely to be a kingdom with a jarl than a jarldom itself (because doing this time there was allways a King of Norway(!) Though half of the time It was the King of Denmark)

    I hope you got it

    Blackleaf-Wille there was never recorded a High king in the north certainly not in Norway though Danish historian Saxo have been writing about several High Kings mostly in Denmark (and present days historians are not sure if half of them existed in Denmark or they comes from tells of the Goth/Burgund as in Sigurd Fafnirsbane were a charactor named Atile shows whom historian suspect to be Atilla the Hun.
    Now personal opinion
    I think to only real life high kings of the North was Harald Bluetooth, Sweyn Forkbeard Canute the Great and all of the kings of the Kalmar (all of those was danish ecpt. one whom was from Norway(!))
    This is from my point of view it would be cool if there was a High-King of the Northrend kingdoms/Jarldoms with the same concept as the Pope, I have no idea of how this could be made but i Think you should include Denmark too.


    I have used Wikipedia to read the years in which they was ruled over Norway and the names in English, else I've used wikipedia very little, most of it is out of memeries I've read from history books which now are at the library though the years, I'll be happy to found the direct sources but i rather skip it, because it would take me months.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_I_of_Denmark
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haakon_Sigurdsson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweyn_Forkbeard
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_I_of_Norway
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eir%C3%...%C3%A1konarson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveinn_H%C3%A1konarson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A5kon_Eiriksson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_II_of_Norway
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canute_the_Great
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_I_of_Norway
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_I_of_Norway
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Norwegian_monarchs
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_of_Bavaria

  14. #14

    Default Re: Jarldom of Hordaland being lead by a king...

    how come you choose hordaland and not hålogaland\trønderlag? the lade jarls was certainly more powerful and prominent through out norwegian history.

    edit:
    just realized this came out a bit to critical, as was not my intention. it is simply a honest question and i surely will not mind playing as hordaland.
    Last edited by absinthia; June 23, 2009 at 08:36 AM.
    Hr. Alf han hugg til han var mod, Han sto i femten Ridderes Blod; Så tog han alle de Kogger ni Og sejlede dermed til Norge fri. Og der kom tidende til Rostock ind, Der blegned saa mangen Rosenkind. Der græd Enker og der græd Børn, Dem hadde gjort fattig den skadelige Ørn.
    Anders Sørensen Vedel

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •