Some future unit ideas

[Blackomur89]

I like the idea but please don't put a Wraith unit.
Wraith=Ring Wraith=Nazgul.
There where no other wraiths in Middle earth.

[C.Maximus]

I got it!

2 words: Dwarven Chariots

I like it

[Lap]

The developers seem very unlikely to add new units that fill out the weaknesses in factions and that's fine by me. So if we're going to include Dwarven chariots they kind of still have to be different than just adding normal good cavalry.

Dwarven chariots could be a high cost, high upkeep, top tier unit with some extremely slow recruitment refresh. Could even make it capitol only. To differentiate them from normal cavalry and to make them more interesting, I think having they would be better as more similar to elephants. Very few chariots in a unit and they would really tear through enemies, but they could also lose control of the horses.

On the note of more cavalry I really think that OoTMM need a single unit of light cavalry (pretty much exactly what the light wargs were in the Additional Units submod). I think having limited use of light cavalry still retains their cavalry weakness. The other option here is to make them ride spiders like in BFME2, but that is ridiculous.

Only other unit I would like to see is the isenguard bomb. I might even experiment with making one myself if none is planned. I think technically you can just make it a siege weapon with a special monster bombard type shot that can only be fired at a point blank range.

[waraelm]

i think these units would be good.


citdal guard archers: citdal guard with longbows and longswords.

improved citdal guard spearmen: armed with swords for when the enemy gets to close (beacuse right now citdal guard are crap"

guard of the tower


rohan

medusa guard: armoured with sword and shield

medusa guard archers: amroured with sword and bow

rohan outrider: light armour bow and sword.

[Beregond]

I like keeping things true to form buuuuuuuuut, just as Peter Jackson changed the story a little by putting in a little lovin between Aragorn and Eawin(spelling)just to entice the women folf, it might not hurt to put in a variety of units to peak the interest of the audiance. Even though Dark elves did'nt exist in Tolken's world it would be cool to add a bad ass Drow faction with some really cool dark armor just for kicks.

I'd better hide on your place...

i think these units would be good.


citdal guard archers: citdal guard with longbows and longswords.
improved citdal guard spearmen: armed with swords for when the enemy gets to close (beacuse right now citdal guard are crap"
guard of the tower
rohan
medusa guard: armoured with sword and shield
medusa guard archers: amroured with sword and bow
rohan outrider: light armour bow and sword.

Medusa? You mean Meduseld?

Well,I kinda like the idea of CitGuard Archers,though other are not so good...

Are you kidding?Citadel Guards tear apart every enemy they meet!They are frigging killing machines!

[DjAci]

Speaking of Broken Crescent, the Kingdom of Jerusalem has 5 different mounted knight units that are functionally extremely similar.

• Latin Knights
• Outremer Knights
• Templars
• Hospitallars
• Knights of Jerusalem

And Teutonic Knights are coming in the 1.5 patch.

Does this variety make Broken Crescent not as good in your eyes?

They were not that similar:

• Latin Knights - lower tier knights
• Outremer Knights - offer ap melee weapons making them better in counter cavalry role
• Templars - offensive and inspirational (not just plain attack)
• Hospitallars - very defensive and better in melee than charge + inspire
• Knights of Jerusalem - overall powerful elite, more for direct combat, less as inspiration

I see fairly distinctive units.

[DjAci]

[quote=aurther;5232096]

um fantasy mods are all about immersion dude. without that you dont have a fantasy mod. I dont see how it detracts from game play at all either? explain. because whats the difference in using say 4 rangers 4vale archers or just 8rangers if they act the same with same stats only different models its the exact same gameplay / tactics it wouldnt detract at all the only thing it would do is allow for more immersion thats bad how?

I like the Tolkien setting and atmosphere, but a game is for me first and foremost a game. A logical challange to make you think, not drool about Feanor kindred making epic moves on the battle field outnumberd 50 to 1. Also, Tolkien's fantasy is subtle, fairly realistic. Adding more equal units would complicate things needlessly and make the game less focused.

[the_mango55]

They were not that similar:

• Latin Knights - lower tier knights
• Outremer Knights - offer ap melee weapons making them better in counter cavalry role
• Templars - offensive and inspirational (not just plain attack)
• Hospitallars - very defensive and better in melee than charge + inspire
• Knights of Jerusalem - overall powerful elite, more for direct combat, less as inspiration

I see fairly distinctive units.

But they are similar in that they are all heavy cavalry, only separated by a few points here and there.

What's stopping these new units proposed from having similar variations to these knights?

Each of these knights adds some flavor to the mod, because each is a bit different and has a different specialty. Why can't TATW do the same?

[aurther]

[quote=DjAci;5232744]

A logical challange to make you think,

Its still run on the same engine as vanilla med2. theres not going to be a logical challenge with the AI. the only real challenge that can come from the AI is giving them insane bonuses which kinda ruins immersion when you have orcs fighting at the same level as top tier elves.

so if u want a challenge queue up a game of chess against some masters. if you want a fun immersive mod that wont be very challenging (but doesnt need to be to be fun) then i think thats what this mod is. Its catering to a large range of people and more immersion as long as it follows the lore wont hurt the game in the slightest. it might not add to it when it comes to tactics on the battlefield but it wont hurt it.

[Beorn]

Pinnath Gelin warriors, as they were described in RoTK, led to MT by Hirluin the Handsome, green cloaked clansmen, with longswords, shields and mail armour.
Also, Morthod(Blackroot) Valley bowmen, with dark green leather armor and black cloaks...

[Vaul]

[quote=DjAci;5232744]

I like the Tolkien setting and atmosphere, but a game is for me first and foremost a game. A logical challange to make you think, not drool about Feanor kindred making epic moves on the battle field outnumberd 50 to 1. Also, Tolkien's fantasy is subtle, fairly realistic. Adding more equal units would complicate things needlessly and make the game less focused.

Sooo you might as well play football manager, a game of statistics, if the relationship between cause and effect is the only valid point of view for this game? Why did I pay so much for my graphics card I wonder? You are clearly an old school strategy gamer, when such considerations were beyond imagination, but Medieval is all about the megalomania! What's the difference between normal sized groups and huge? It's all the same from a cause and effect point of view, right? It's the megalomania behind the eyes, not the logic behind the brain

There are clearly many ideologies and this forum is clearly a place where they might meet and clash... It comes down to this, after a couple of campaigns with every faction you're interested in (and this could be done within a week) there are two possible conclusions:
1. Wow, this is great, I'm never going to stop playing this game!
2. Ok, I've seen it all, what else is on?


I for one tend towards the second option, as high elves have 1 infantry unit and 2 archer units which linger for a hundred turns... You on the other hand might enjoy the challenge of a brutally limited unit rooster for a million turns... We are both correct in our own little worlds, and the modding team shall decide how to improve their product in the future.

I only hope that more people agree with me and that we might influence the developers And in such a case I doubt you'll be disappointed with the results

[Withwnar]

... and the modding team shall decide how to improve their product in the future.

Or these extra unit ideas could be a submod.

[Vaul]

Or these extra unit ideas could be a submod.

I imagine that the models for so many new units would be a task for a more comprehensive field of expertise than altering a text segment in a file (which makes up the bulk of the sub-mod section)...? I apologize if I'm underestimating the sub-mod community

[Withwnar]

There is already at least one submod that adds new units: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=254552

[Beregond]

There is already at least one submod that adds new units: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=254552

Yeah,it's great!
and I'd like to see as many units as it is possible,while following the lore.Most of them could be made AOR and with low recruitment so they can't influence much game balance,but bring more variety!

[DjAci]

[quote=Vaul;5232818]

Sooo you might as well play football manager, a game of statistics, if the relationship between cause and effect is the only valid point of view for this game? Why did I pay so much for my graphics card I wonder? You are clearly an old school strategy gamer, when such considerations were beyond imagination, but Medieval is all about the megalomania! What's the difference between normal sized groups and huge? It's all the same from a cause and effect point of view, right? It's the megalomania behind the eyes, not the logic behind the brain

There are clearly many ideologies and this forum is clearly a place where they might meet and clash... It comes down to this, after a couple of campaigns with every faction you're interested in (and this could be done within a week) there are two possible conclusions:
1. Wow, this is great, I'm never going to stop playing this game!
2. Ok, I've seen it all, what else is on?


I for one tend towards the second option, as high elves have 1 infantry unit and 2 archer units which linger for a hundred turns... You on the other hand might enjoy the challenge of a brutally limited unit rooster for a million turns... We are both correct in our own little worlds, and the modding team shall decide how to improve their product in the future.

I only hope that more people agree with me and that we might influence the developers And in such a case I doubt you'll be disappointed with the results

I don't enjoy sterile games like football manager plus i don't care about football overall. What I really like are COMPETITIVE RTS like Warcraft 3 and Starcraft (pretty much any other RTS, but these are the best exapmle). Each unit in an RTS game is there for a reason, redundancy is avoided mostly. That's would I want in TATW.

[Biggreenfellow]

We need Dwarf Hobbit throwers! Let's face it, Hobbits don't serve any other useful purpose

[Haldir]

How about the uruk scout/raiders that were used at Amon Hen in the films. The current raiders don't look very... Quick, what with all that plate armour on them.

[haniel]

A fantasy unit:

Dwarf Mountaineer: A dwarf mounted on a ram.

And Gyrocopters and Flamecanons and Steamtanks and other FREAKY warhammerstuff... NO WAY!

[Biggreenfellow]

And Gyrocopters and Flamecanons and Steamtanks and other FREAKY warhammerstuff... NO WAY!

Why not? We already have Orcs (okay, goblins) on wolves (okay, wargs). I also think we should put the Trolls on dinosaurs. And maybe add a new faction? Made of cow people?

Hmm.. On second thought...

HELL NO!