Some future unit ideas

[MasterBigAb]

From the movies:
Isengard: Uruk Hai Sappers, Put a bomb against enemy fortifications to blow them apart.

Actually the devs already plan to do such a unit, they might even already started creating it
and balrogs.....

[Confederate Jeb]

I agree! Stainless Steel is one of the greatest mods for Medieval because it has literally dozens of unit types, for all factions. One look at that rooster makes my megalomania skyrocket.... And forget the look of the units or their specific advantages and specializations... it's the diversity that makes it immortal, in lack of a better term.

if TATW should come close to that kind of diversity it would truly claim the title of the best game ever, at least for me and a small group of similarly-minded people I can speak for

Diversity is the key to superior gameplay, it's definitely not mutually exclusive as DjAci suggests

Exactly right!

[Nazgûl Killer]

Now just remember these are just ideas, most will probably never be seen and some have already been mentioned. I just wanted to give ideas for the TATW team and perhaps even submodders... so here I go.

OotMM:
Boldog: Extremely powerful goblins possessed by a Maiar. (Extremely small unit pools, more powerful than any other orc unit and unroutable)
Balrog: Creature of flame and fire twice the height of a man. (Now the movie actually doesn't depict them accurately and the books description isn't quite as impossible to make. It's just a huge human like figure wreathed in shadow and flame.. the shadow and flame part could be shown just by a cool texture.)
Wargs: Intelligent wolf creatures that are friends to the goblins
Greater Goblin: It is possible that the greater goblins were actually Boldogs, but they could be shown as a seperate entity.

Isengard:
Half-Orc Axeman: Powerful orcs bred from both man and goblin and well able to tear through most formations.
Dunland Axeman: Strong and ruthless axemen.
Dunland Archers: Lightly equipped hunters who are sent to war with little training and a sorry excuse for a bow of war, still, they are familiar with the bow.
Dunland Clan Lords: Equipped with powerful two handed swords, these men are devestating shock troops.
Orthanc Gaurd: Unwilling to trust his orcs with any large responsibility he has armed the most elite men of Dunland and dissafected Eorlingas with heavy plate and swords and shields of great quality. (Only 1 unit at a time)

Mordor:
Nurnen Conscript: Lightly equipped slaves sent to fight and die for their Lord Sauron.
Werewolves: Dark creatures from Dol Guldur they fight with a ferociousness and grace that shows they are no true wolf.
Nurnen Taskmaster: The luckier men of Nurn who are chosen to keep the other slaves at work, they are slightly more heavily equipped and have some training.
Wraith: Minions of Sauron like the Nine, but far less powerful. They are deadly but vulnerable and are best used as ambushers.


Harad:
"Troll" men: Tall and powerful men who are so large that some mistake them to be part troll, they are well able to take on any opponent with a fair chance of success.
Wildmen of Harad: Men who live in the deep jungles in the far expanses of the south, they are lightly equipped but will fight like mad men for the Dark Lord.

Rhun:
After thinking it over, this roster seems finished to me.

High Elves:
PENDING

Silvan Elves:
PENDING

Dwarves:
Dwarven Archers: Dwarves are hardly the best marksmen, but they are still well able to pull a bow string.
Dwarven Crossbowmen: The standard crossbowmen and ranged unit of Dwarven forces.
Khazad Guard: Extremely heavily armored guards of Khazad-Dum, they wield a mattock and are extremely experienced and powerful warriors.
Dwarven Pathfinder: Dwarves who have taken to wandering about Middle-Earth only equipped with a leather tunic and leggings with some light mail covering the chest and a small axe.
MORE PENDING

Gondor:
Lamedon Levy: Men sent to war to fight the Dark Lord and other forces that might encroach upon their lands. They are equipped with short spears and should not expect to maintain a line.
Lamedon Infantry: Equipped with a cruel bill, these men can do great damage against their foes, but are vulnerable in a prolonged melee.
Blackroot Vale Archers: Elite archers who live upon the Blackroot river, these men are a match for any marksmen and can eliminate enemies with ease.
Belfalas Mariner: Light infantry in lamellar leather and equipped with light swords and small shields, they should not be expected to fight an enemy of any skill but are well suited to chasing down routers due to their light equipment.
Baygaurd of Belfalas: Professional troops who make sure no corsairs or other amphibious assaults are allowed to take place.
Anduin River Men: Wearing leather armor and equipped with short swords the men of the river are not very much suited for war.
Anfalas Huntsmen: Lightly equipped archers ill suited for war.
Anfalas Fishermen: Lightly equipped infantry ill suited for war.

Rohan:
After thinking it over, this roster seems finished to me.

Eriador:
Useless to do this one until we see the new roster, and that won't be for quite a while I would assume.

Dale:
Useless to do this one until we see the new roster, and that won't be for quite a while I would assume.

These are, like I said, just ideas. Not even suggestions really, so devs don't take this as a pressure to make them.

If you can think of any for the factions I have yet to make lists for feel free to post some.

I don't see any problem with the rest, but the highlighted seems ridiculous to me.
1st: NO Balrog will be tamed by Orcs/Goblins, only Melkor managed to tame a Balrog, not even Sauron is capable of such deeds.
2nd: Boldog sounds to me like another way to overpower OotMM.
3rd: Wargs are, by no way, intelligent, and never friendly. And they are shown as such.

Aside from these 3, I think it's just fine.

[JonSnow]

Boldogs are not something I made up... they're found in HoME... I fail to see how they'd overpower them. Elves would still be stronger, regardless of the spirit residing in them the body is still weaker just with an incredibly intelligent and cunning spirit that would undoubtedly fight to the utmost with the given shell... so basically weaker than a man but more skillful than most men.
Balrog I mostly put as a little filler, but yea I wouldn't really want it. And wargs are intelligent for wolf kind... only werewolves surpass them, and they are relatively chummy with the goblins, despite the fact that they eat their corspes.

[Beregond]

Wow,great ideas,JonSnow!


I've thought of some units before,and would like to see AOR Iron Hills and AOR Khazad-Dum as was mentioned before,also may be second level crossbows

For Isengard also medium cavalry of Dunlending Horsemen

For Silvan Elves Border Guardians or smth-light Elven Archers(I know,they have plenty,but this would be cool if Devs decide to separate Lorien),clothed in grey cloaks,kinda like Haldir and his friends are described in books


EDIT Balrog could work as hero-general,situated in Moria
and I'd use Lamedon Clansmen model from GW

[JonSnow]

Good ideas Beregond but I think the archers need a cool name... wardens of Lorien possibly, but still not quite cool enough IMO. I'll update the list in a bit hopefully.

[Beregond]

Guardians of Lorien? Silvan already have Wardens
Border Wardens?-no,that's stupid

[Pietrak]

Sauron had a balrog in Barad Dûr. It was never in combat during the war of the ring and it fell with the tower, or at least lost it's physical shape, and was merely a ghost.

It was a defensive balrog... >.>

Sauron did not have a Balrog anywhere. I don't know where you did you dig that out, but I'm 100% possitive that it's crap.


But back to topic:

I think that the High Elves should have something like a light cavalary, just to harras skirmishers.

[Lt>McLean]

Nice idea. I think that Gondor would benifit from some Osgiliath Veterans similar to the Gamesworkshop produced ones. Experienced and something incorperating they're constant defence of Osgiliath. Would be good but I'm not sure it would work as none of Osgiliath belongs to Gondor at the begining of the campaing. Ohh well

[zosoholeh]

Beornings: Giant, burly men carrying axes. they look like lumberjacks or the guy on the brawny paper towels. they are strong and are availible as mercenaries in between the misty mountains and Mirkwood.

[zosoholeh]

1st: NO Balrog will be tamed by Orcs/Goblins, only Melkor managed to tame a Balrog, not even Sauron is capable of such deeds.

Melkor didn't tame them, he created them. They were Maiar spirits seduced by Morgoth into his service. Sauron was in the same order as the Balrogs before they were corrupted. And Peter Jackson's representation of Balrogs looks nothing like Tolkien intended.

[the_mango55]

And Peter Jackson's representation of Balrogs looks nothing like Tolkien intended.

How so?

[zosoholeh]

Because it was described as "like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater" it didn't have horns and it wasn't on fire until it whent through the fire. even then "its streaming mane kindled, and blazed behind it" Peter Jackson's representation showed it as a creature that looked like magma solidfiying.

[the_mango55]

They have the ability to engulf themselves in flame, I figure they could look like that if they wanted, although in Tolkien's version it didn't appear that way.

As for horns, Tolkien describes it as "man-shape maybe"... Not exactly the best description to work with. PJ's version was roughly man shape.

[DjAci]

[quote=Vaul;5226883]

I agree! Stainless Steel is one of the greatest mods for Medieval because it has literally dozens of unit types, for all factions. One look at that rooster makes my megalomania skyrocket.... And forget the look of the units or their specific advantages and specializations... it's the diversity that makes it immortal, in lack of a better term.

if TATW should come close to that kind of diversity it would truly claim the title of the best game ever, at least for me and a small group of similarly-minded people I can speak for

Diversity is the key to superior gameplay, it's definitely not mutually exclusive as DjAci suggests.

Diversity in terms of many tacticly (not visually) very similar units does not add gameplay at all. What difference does it make wether I use Ithilien rangers or suggested Blackroot Vale archers who would be very alike. It maybe adds immersion, but it kills gameplay. I like the challange, balance and usefullnenss of units and factions. Not a ton of equal units in different models so I could needlesly say I have experinced Tolkiens world better. I want to play a game, hence challange and gameplay are key, if I u want to really feel the world, read the book!

P.S. That exxcessive roster is what makes Staniless Steel just a nice mod. Broken Crescent is simply far more complete.

[the_mango55]

P.S. That exxcessive roster is what makes Staniless Steel just a nice mod. Broken Crescent is simply far more complete.

Speaking of Broken Crescent, the Kingdom of Jerusalem has 5 different mounted knight units that are functionally extremely similar.

• Latin Knights
• Outremer Knights
• Templars
• Hospitallars
• Knights of Jerusalem

And Teutonic Knights are coming in the 1.5 patch.

Does this variety make Broken Crescent not as good in your eyes?

[aurther]

[quote=DjAci;5232074]

Diversity in terms of many tacticly (not visually) very similar units does not add gameplay at all. What difference does it make wether I use Ithilien rangers or suggested Blackroot Vale archers who would be very alike. It maybe adds immersion, but it kills gameplay. I like the challange, balance and usefullnenss of units and factions. Not a ton of equal units in different models so I could needlesly say I have experinced Tolkiens world better. I want to play a game, hence challange and gameplay are key, if I u want to really feel the world, read the book!

P.S. That exxcessive roster is what makes Staniless Steel just a nice mod. Broken Crescent is simply far more complete.

um fantasy mods are all about immersion dude. without that you dont have a fantasy mod. I dont see how it detracts from game play at all either? explain. because whats the difference in using say 4 rangers 4vale archers or just 8rangers if they act the same with same stats only different models its the exact same gameplay / tactics it wouldnt detract at all the only thing it would do is allow for more immersion thats bad how?

[VonSchlepp]

I like keeping things true to form buuuuuuuuut, just as Peter Jackson changed the story a little by putting in a little lovin between Aragorn and Eawin(spelling)just to entice the women folf, it might not hurt to put in a variety of units to peak the interest of the audiance. Even though Dark elves did'nt exist in Tolken's world it would be cool to add a bad ass Drow faction with some really cool dark armor just for kicks.

[Valiant Champion]

ISENGARD

Orc grenadiers

[aurther]

I like keeping things true to form buuuuuuuuut, just as Peter Jackson changed the story a little by putting in a little lovin between Aragorn and Eawin(spelling)just to entice the women folf, it might not hurt to put in a variety of units to peak the interest of the audiance. Even though Dark elves did'nt exist in Tolken's world it would be cool to add a bad ass Drow faction with some really cool dark armor just for kicks.

no