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Thread: Best ways to kill Trolls (Instructions)

  1. #1
    jản's Avatar █ kept in suspense █
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    Icon3 Best ways to kill Trolls (Instructions)

    ///

    okay, i read a lot about trolls. that they are too strong and powerfull,
    that they ruin the game, that they are too much and nearly not
    competitive.

    but instead of using a submod to make them 50% weaker or other
    units (cavalry) way stronger to kill them, i would find it very usefull,
    to post ways to kill them effectivly without cheating and modding
    and while using a clean TATW 1.1 with VH/VH gameplay.

    so here are some of my tactics against trolls:


    MISSILE SIEGE:


    • use ballistas with normale- or fire arrows - they are very powerful against trolls
      (i use normal arrows because they are shooted faster than flaming arrows)
    • i once was able to kill about 21 trolls of 40 in my campaign with two units of ballistas
    • use catapluts (for the same reasons)
    • > Tipp: trolls are really fast and they are attacking really early - so in a siege where
      an enemy attacks me with trolls, i usually attack them before they attack my, because
      then trolls are just standing to wait for an attack like all other units - nice opportunity
      to use your ballistas and catapults)


    SPEAR UNITS:


    • it usually takes a lot of spearmen to kill a troll but if you use cheap
      spear-militia it should be okay to loose them
      (this is just pure collateral damage)
    • and if your spear-militia sucks (which they will when facing olog-hais)
      then they are quite useful to weak the trolls that they can be finished by cavalry
      .
    • Tipps from Fulgrim88 - thanks:
      Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
      1Unit of Dragonslayers, Shieldwall active, charge used
      (both is important, they lost without it)
      >>> won with low casualties

      2Units of Crossbowmen (as you need one meatshield)
      >>> won with low casualties

      2 Units of Silvan Elven Elite Archers (same reason)
      >>> won with low casualties

      also tested:
      - Rohan Horse-Javelin-Throwers (worked good, but got out of ammo too fast and lost)
      - Elven Infantry of all Sorts with&without charge (all of them lost)
      - Ithilien Rangers (did quite a good job, should be able to do it with proper meatshields)
      - Citadel Guard & Vault wardens (both died, but worked good in campaign games, i still need to figure out why. Probably Weapon Upgrades)
      - Lossarnach & Rohan Heavy Axemen with charge (both died, hurting the trolls badly, but not killing them. Will probably work combined with other troops, where they can survive long enough)

      So overall: The very thing you need is AP (Armour Piercing weapons,
      combined with heavy armour & shields if possible to survive
      long enough to actually kill and not only bleed them. High dmg Missiles
      also work, as they dont ignore armor but defense rating
      (which is a pretty big bunch for trolls). Low dmg missiles kill too
      much of your own troops whilst not really damaging the trolls)

      So the Units of choice would be either:
      - Heavy Infantry with high dmg, armour & ap if given
      - Elite Archers combined with cheap meatshields (milita) to take friendly fire
      -
      or cavalry indeed (jan)


    ... CAVALRY:


    • best way in my oppinion to kill trolls
    • you just need more than one horseunit (4 is the best)
    • attack them from behind, not in a forest, downhill, in a straight row
      >this is the most powerful way to kill them
      (they even fly in the air then)
    • if you dont have more than one horse unit use a spear-militia and
      make a schiltrom or a shield-wall
      > when the trolls attack them put a cavalry unit behind the trolls,
      that the trolls are between your spear-unit and your cavalry-unit
      >than attack them with a powerful charge (they will fly again)
    • > 10 trolls are a quite simple enemy for one spear unit and 2 or 3
      cavalry units it just take some time and you will have a 50% lost
      (depends on the quality of your cavalry units)
    • (even light cavalry units are working fine for that)
    • >>> this all wont work inside settlements because cavalry does not
      charge in settlements
      .
    • Tipps from Achilla - thanks:
      Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
      Cavalry seems just about right versus them. If you get a hand on any Javelin units with AP, they are good against trolls too. Still, best against them are cavalry units with secondary AP weapon, e.g. Northmen cavalry for Dale - cheap, easy to recruit maintain, deadly when used right infantry, cavalry and trolls alike. I reckon some Rohan cavalry units have secondary AP axe weapon too.


    ARCHER:


    • thanks to Vaul for the following tactic:
    • "[in siege fights with possible trolls fuighting on walls] put some low level infantry [on walls]
      to tie up the invader, and put an archer unit right beneath the wall! When the enemy reaches
      the wall and get all stacked up and crowded in the middle of my wall infantry, let them have it
      with fire arrows. Works like a charm, every time (although higher level units are recommended)"



    RANGE WEAPON UNITS:


    • > i found out that missile units with bows and arrows are not very
      effective against trolls - and they will often get attacked by trolls
      they are attacking
    • > for mountain trolls most archer units work godd - but to get away
      a troll attack mounted horse archers are indispensable
      (2 unti of Rohans 'Rider of the Fold' fedeated 1 nuit of 'Mountani Trolls'
      with 0 losses)



    ///

    i will add screenshots later to prove all that.

    when harad attacks me with mumakils, i will add them here, because at the
    moment i dont know, if this is the same there.

    ///
    Last edited by King Kong; December 28, 2011 at 08:33 AM.

  2. #2
    OfficerJohn's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    Trolls = Infantry, not cavalry, so they got nothing on spears...
    >.>

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    Radboud's Avatar Luctor et Emergo
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    SPEAR UNITS:


    • use spear untis against trolls because they have a bonus against them,
      because they are cavalry in their modding-origin
    Read his post thoroughly.

  4. #4
    jản's Avatar █ kept in suspense █
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    okay - that i don't know - but i think there are diferent troll-unit categories.
    but well - spears work fine for me - especially because they have shields, a good
    defence and can form schildtroms - ans of course they are the cheapest units for me (rohan)

  5. #5
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    Excellent idea for a thread Jan, although it might reduce the number of new "Trolls are overpowered" threads being created and then I'd having nothing to read. +rep by the way.

    Yes, I also thought that Trolls were infantry. Or at least they were going to be (during development) which is why they couldn't do the "send men flying" charge routine.

    Going from what I've read in other threads it seems that high-level infantry/shocktroops are best, not spearmen.

    EDIT: you got in first with a reply Jan. True, spearmen do have other advantages.
    Last edited by Withwnar; May 19, 2009 at 06:00 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    As Gondor, the most efficient unit I've used against trolls by far are Pelagir Marines. Their AP missiles are deadly against trolls. I generally try pinning down the trolls by attacking with some cheap infantry while having my marines pepper them with javelins.

    Otherwise, since 1.1, arrows work quite well if you have enough of them, since you should since they are the best way by far to destroy orc armies. What I tend to do when facing a Mordor stack with say two-three units of trolls is to focus my arrow fire on the orcs, as normal, while tying down the trolls with some militias. When the orcs have routed, which is generally two seconds after hitting my lines, I focus-fire on the trolls (unit by unit) until they die. With a dozen unit of archers firing at fairly close range on them, they die fairly fast, and normally all they kill in the meantime are sacrificed militias. I used that strategy yesterday evening against a full mordor stack with three units of mountain trolls and I killed 99% of the enemy force with 5% losses, and I was fielding mainly militias. I had some luck with the battlefield though, I had a nice steep hill to deploy my archers on.

    I've also tried ballistas, but in my experience getting them to hit anything is tough. They are rarely placed well enough to do so, and they are too imprecise to hit often. Considering that having siege engines slows your army down, I've stop bringing some to deal with trolls. If my army have them, I'll use them, but that's it.

    Spearmen, especially advanced ones like Citadel Guards, can be quite good. If I have enough archers around though I'll avoid committing them as I'll rather soak up losses on militia units. Especially if I'm on the offensive, and so unlikely to be able to retrain high-level troops in nearby settlements for culture reasons.
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    jản's Avatar █ kept in suspense █
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    ///

    it seems that high-level infantry/shocktroops are best, not spearmen.
    i can imagine that. but i dont think you wanna get lost of
    expensive high-level infantry/shocktroops, because you really
    will loose a lot of them. spear militia is the cheapest unit availlable
    for me and they have the above mentioned abilities.

    ///

  8. #8

    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    i keep hearing that balista is a solid solution to kill trolls. Well its not the trolls dont just stand still and get peppered by balistats and once they engage your soldiers your balista cant fire at them. even worse if they engage the balistas themself.

    Balista is not a valid suggestion if u lucky u get 1 troll when they charge

  9. #9
    OfficerJohn's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    Quote Originally Posted by Radboud View Post
    [/list]
    Read his post thoroughly.
    I did, that's what made me post it.

  10. #10
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    Someone mentioned once using cavalry to lure them out for a chase, which tires them out. Then they're easier to kill because they're Winded, Tired or, hopefully, Exhausted. I haven't tried it myself.

  11. #11
    jản's Avatar █ kept in suspense █
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliCious.vP View Post
    i keep hearing that balista is a solid solution to kill trolls. Well its not the trolls dont just stand still and get peppered by balistats and once they engage your soldiers your balista cant fire at them. even worse if they engage the balistas themself.

    Balista is not a valid suggestion if u lucky u get 1 troll when they charge
    i once was able to kill about 21 trolls of 40 in my campaign with two units of ballistas
    > Tipp: trolls are really fast and they are attacking really early - so in a siege where
    an enemy attacks me with trolls, i usually attack them before they attack my, because
    then trolls are just standing to wait for an attack like all other units - nice opportunity
    to use your ballistas and catapults)
    this 19 troll kills where during a fight against an sieging mordor army. i attacked however
    they sieged me. than the trolls stand still awating my ballista arrows. on a normale
    battlefield this wont work very well i know - but in a counter-siege-attack it will.
    Last edited by jản; May 19, 2009 at 06:08 AM.

  12. #12
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    Quote Originally Posted by jản View Post
    a fight against an sieging mordor army. i attacked however they sieged me.
    You mean you sallied right?

    Also "Troll Catapult" trolls tend to stand still. Although if you can hit them with your ballista then they can hit you with their cataput. Ballista can impale multiple trolls in one hit I believe (see below). If you're lucky enough to get the ballista alongside the catapult trolls standing in a line then maybe...

    When attacking a city with trolls guarding the walls I used some ballista with great results. They love to stand in that tiny space above the gate and so are all bunched together. It was then that I think I was killing multiple trolls in one hit. I couldn't be sure because they were so close together that I couldn't see them all and I wasn't watching the numbers on the unit popup info. So please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    As Silvans I've tried archer cavalry against troll catapults. On the whole they don't seem at all bothered but occasionally they'll turn the catapults around to return fire. Not helpful in killing trolls perhaps but it stops them firing those catapults at my army. Their arrows aren't powerful or plentiful enough to kill a troll but they will at least injure them (shoot into the back) so when my army can finally come and take them down they're quicker to die.
    Last edited by Withwnar; May 19, 2009 at 06:28 AM. Reason: added quote

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    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    if trolls are cavalry why can they "ride" up the leathers. trolls are infantry i thought

  14. #14

    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    In open battle I sometimes sacrifice a couple lowly units to hold them at a distance and keep them occupied and shower them with as many arrows as poss, takes a while and you think nothing is happening but really satisfying when all the trolls start to drop around the same time, or use elite spearmen if close up. Catapults are good, one direct hit will kill a troll, sieges are still a problem though if they are using ladders, my best results is hoping they come through the gate first, sacrifice lowly units to hold them for a while and get a couple of good catapult shots in, always have your catapult ready facing the gate.

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    jản's Avatar █ kept in suspense █
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    ///

    if trolls are cavalry why can they "ride" up the leathers. trolls are infantry i thought
    good point. but but i think there are diferent troll-unit categories or not?
    (or has someone saw olog-hai or troll elephants climbing up ladders?)

    but like i said. spear-units (militia) work fine for me (they have shields, a good
    defence, can form schildtroms and are cheap enough to be collateral damage)

    ///

  16. #16
    BanditKS's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them /// Instructions

    since they are infantry i just keep em in one place with a cheap unit and then hit them with a cav charge and one shot a few.. then i just repeat the process till they are all dead. I don't think its cheating, its me riding a big spear and stabbing you with it at charging speed they are only flesh so if the hit is clean it should one shot them.



  17. #17

    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them /// Instructions

    Best way to combat trolls is installing some balancing mod.

    However, ballistas and archers. Lots of them.

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    MasterBigAb's Avatar Valar Morghulis
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them /// Instructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lordinquisitor View Post
    Best way to combat trolls is installing some balancing mod.


    However...i think skirmishers don't work very well against them (even the cavalery unit not), i tried it out, at least it was in version 1.0
    But a cavalery charge from behind is a really good tactic, it can kill about 2-4 trolls (and you even only need some weak units, like skirimishrs without amounation)
    Last edited by MasterBigAb; May 19, 2009 at 07:43 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them /// Instructions

    While i second ballistas being the best way, there are also some other troops that hurt them badly:

    - Crossbowmen (for their shots break armor and ignore most of defense skill (as they are ranged). Awesome even against Olog Hai)
    Edit: As most factions dont field Crossbowman, I remember Longbowmens Bodkin-Arrows to be armor breaking as well in some other Mods. I don't know about Longbowmen in TATW though. Just test it
    - any Spearwall-Pikemen (eg Vault Wardens, Fountain Guard)
    - Elite Infantry with high armor and shieldwall (if given), as afaik trolls cant ignore armor (i had some Dragonslayers surviving up to 2hits from a troll). (Those wont really crush a unit of trolls, though, so consider casualties but fighting 1:1 on VH/VH my Dragonslayers always won)

    So as you might guess, dwarfs are pretty good against trolls

    Edit: About the Infantry/Cavalry-thing, i regularly see Cave Trolls standing on the walls, so they're infantry for sure. Im not sure about Olog-Hai, but as they work like armoured cave trolls in every way, i don't know why they should be an exception. Therefore I'd say they are both infantry.
    Last edited by Fulgrim88; May 19, 2009 at 07:56 AM.

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    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Trolls /// the best ways to kill them

    Quote Originally Posted by jản View Post
    ///



    good point. but but i think there are diferent troll-unit categories or not?
    (or has someone saw olog-hai or troll elephants climbing up ladders?)

    but like i said. spear-units (militia) work fine for me (they have shields, a good
    defence, can form schildtroms and are cheap enough to be collateral damage)

    ///
    now that makes me wonder if some trolls are lelephant units...can they crush doors? coz that would be awesome

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