Curia Hostilia - Consulate of Postumus et Celsus

[Philos Sophos]

"I support this motion fully as our great consuls need the troops and I believe the Gauls will soon start massive attacks toward us.Without help,our men can't hold out for long as they will be just overrun by great amount of men.Also,the cities we have conquered need garrisons too,so we will need even more troops.But I believe the consul know better than me,a senator who hasn't been North."

[Ozy]

A message from Sicly arrives to the Curia.

Senators of Rome,

I bring you news about the processes that have taken place in Sicily since my arrival to the city of Syracuse.

I have seen a lack of centralization from our government on those lands, since, while the cities and surrounding areas are ours, by law, many villages, and groups of people in the countryland are yet to be integrated and regulated, that is, turned into loyal habitants of Roman land. For now, I believe a process of subjugation should continue, as well as some public spending to improve the infraestructure of this land, especially land comunications (aka roads), which I must say are in terrible conditions, not to say the basic defenses of some cities have not even been repaired since the moment our own troops took those lands. For that part of the plan, I have set the following constructions:

Syracuse: Subjugation: 1440 denarii.
Lylybaeum: Via Strata 1200 denarii.
Messana: Colonorum Deductio 2400 denarii, Reparation of Traba Vallum: 166 denarii.

A secondary need has been the lack of apropiate worship to our gods, as there have been complaints from Roman citizens who want to find temples, a problem I have tried to fix by ordering the construction of temples to Jupiter and Mars in the cities of Lylybaeum and Messana, respectively. I, however, will take especial care not to affect the places of worship for the native Hellenic, Sicilian and Punic gods.

In the end, public spending has costed a total of 6006, out of the budget of 8000 denarii that was granted to me by the House.

After that, I moved into looking at the status of the troops on the island. At my arrival, I was very happy to notice that a good number of legions were on the island, veterans from the war in Sicily. I spent some money retraining and improving the equipment of some of the troops, an act that took a total cost of 316 denarii.

It is at ths point, senators, that I will begin adding some not so encouraging news.

As you may know, the southern sector of the island, the city state of Agrigentum, is the last independent land that remains in Sicily, and has been known to count with a very large field army. For that, when I arrived to the island, having information on the armies of Agrigantium became a priority. However, the first report from our spies in their territory had no indication of the whereabouts of said army, simply gone from our line of sight. Because of that, I and some troops moved our of Siracuse, next to the border, with the mission of terrain exploration and the establishment of watchtowers near the border. What we encountered was a most terrible surprise.





A day of riding after we left the city, as we moved through a pass into the forest that sorrounds the southern zones of mount Etna, the silence of the woods was disrupted by the whisting of stones and javelins being thrown at us. Taking down some of my men, the missiles were followed by warcries of armoured men, carrying swords and heavy shields, charging at us from the woods. We fought them for short, me personally being lightly injuried, but, being utterly outnumbered, we retired outside of the forest, moving south. There, we camped, and without the impediment the trees presented to our sight, we were able to witness with out eyes not hundreds, but thousands of armed spearmen, as they poured our of from the trees, and formed in front of us in a line. After witnessing this, we quickly chose to retire to the city, and prepared the army in Siracuse for battle.


OOC: yay for our first defeat .






As it stands now, I think that our men are enough to take the enemy if they were stupid enough to siege the impenetrable walls of Siracuse, but, as for being able to inflict a decisive defeat on them in the battlefield, that I cannot be sure of. While my men are proper Roman legionaries, they are outnumbered by good quality troops (OOC: about 1200, most good quality hoplites, at least compared to our troops vs. 800-900) so this will certainly not be a quick fight.





The biggest problem resides on the lack of the possibility to train local militias in the island, with the exception of Lilybaeum, where the large Lybian population has shown willingness to form militias to aid our field army.

With my current budget, I will be able to train some troops, but the lack of more money will prevent me from recruiting the troops I will need to win this war, without taking a good amount of cash from the construction projects that have already been planned. For that, I would like to ask the House to grant me an additional 1500 denarii for troops recruitment, for a total of 9500 denarii. If this is not approved, I think I will be obligued cancel some constructions to finance the war.

I would also like to ask the House for permission to wage a full scale war and conquest into enemy territory, that is, effectively taking the city of Agrigentium for their crimes against Rome and her provinces (OOC: I'm still not sure if I can actually take lands without authorization from the senate, so I might as well ask...).

Without no more further news to bring to you, I sen you my regards, only asking for the quickest response possible on my requests.

Proconsul Sp. Herrenius Pictor.
Governor of Sicily.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

ooc :

The Proconsul is not allowed to begin a war or begin hostilities with an opposing nation unless the Senate allows it. However, he is allowed to fight a defensive war against an already declared enemy.

In the event of being engaged in battle, and having defeated the enemy, the Proconsul is allowed to march into the territory of the origin of the army he faced and capture the main city in the territory, to ensure no further arrival of reinforcements or troops. However, he is to proceed no further unless attacked once more, or ordered by the Senate.

1. You need to ask to wage war against the city, you can attack and destroy the rebel army as well and you would be allowed to move in rebel territory and take there city.

But in this situation you will not be allowed to take the city because the rebel army that you are seeing is n' t from Agrigentum. Thy are from Syracuse as you can see on the battle deployment report. So you are dealing more with a rebellion then with an invasion army that has been send by Agrigentum.

[stormer]

OOC:- LordRaglon make a name for that motion and I'll put it up straightaway

[Celsius]

"This does put us at a set back. Send forces to the North or into Sicily. Sicily should be our first priority. These large number of soldiers on Sicily are disturbing. We need to send more forces to aid the Proconsul so he may defeat these Rebels."

[Philos Sophos]

"This puts our plans for the North on hold for a while before the threat in Sicily is removed.We cannot have a change that when we are fighting the Gauls,an army attacks our cities in Sicily.This rebellion must be dealt fast and it must be destroyed to not allow further rebellions."

[Ozy]

ooc :



1. You need to ask to wage war against the city, you can attack and destroy the rebel army as well and you would be allowed to move in rebel territory and take there city.

But in this situation you will not be allowed to take the city because the rebel army that you are seeing is n' t from Agrigentum. Thy are from Syracuse as you can see on the battle deployment report. So you are dealing more with a rebellion then with an invasion army that has been send by Agrigentum.

OOC: no that army was in Agrigentum since before we even planed the invasion of Sicily. In fact Crassus himself reported that the Agrigentine army had moved into our territory at the last minutes of his term. Then it just vanished, but those troops are the original huge army that was part of Agrigentum's defense when we invaded Sicily.

I know they are called syracusan rebels but they came from Agrigentum...

[Raglan]

Senators i find myself at a loss, Is this an act of agression by Agrigentium or is it left over troops or discontentment leading to rebellion.

I think we would be wise to grant Senator Pictors request for 1500 denari, but allow him to attack Agrigentium? That i am unsure about.

Primus Marcellinus looks around the senate for he is uncertain about this one, perhaps there is no best course.

Senators i propose we grant the 1500 denari, but don't allow him to attack. If and only If they attack Syracusa then he must turn them back at the walls, and i feel that we should focus on the campaign in Cis-Alpine. The spead at which it is occuring is a blessing and once complete, will reqiure far fewer men to hold. These men can then be sent to Sicily as a Consular Army.

ooc; how's Punctum Legio ut Cis-Alpine

[Hesus de bodemloze]

ooc I checked the save and that army was original out of Agrigentium. So i think this would apply on your situation.

In the event of being engaged in battle, and having defeated the enemy, the Proconsul is allowed to march into the territory of the origin of the army he faced and capture the main city in the territory, to ensure no further arrival of reinforcements or troops. However, he is to proceed no further unless attacked once more, or ordered by the Senate.

[Raglan]

ooc; since he's asked for permission now, won't it look bad if he just attacks.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

ooc Well if he asked permission the house should bring this to a discussion and vote i think.

[Celsius]

"I have to disagree with Senator Marcellinus. If we attack them on open battle field, are superior forces will do more damage. If these hoplites are what the Proconsul says, we should increase are number of cavalry to flank the slow moving hoplites. But on the other hand, if they attack one of our Sicilian cities, then archers would do more damage to the slow moving hoplites. But we must act quickly so that the Proconsul gets what he needs. Hold off our invasion of Gaul and protect Sicily!"

[Raglan]

senator, i have to argue against you. As Questor i have a good idea of what Rome is capable of, and we are NOT at the moment able to fight on two fronts. We are not of yet at war in Sicily and to abandon Cis-Alpine when we are so close is madness.
This incident can be read in many ways, and i will agree that it doen't look promissing, but we are not prepared for this. Rome is barely prepared for the campaign to the north (if you don't believe me look at the save - things have changed a little but not greatly)
I say this not as a pacifist or a coward but as a realist - the best strategy economically and military is a delaying one. I don't argue that this is something that should be ignored, but with Senator Saevus' reforms coming into effect we can start recruiting the needed legions to fully deal with problems that arrise. But first we must finish the war in Cis-Alpine. To abandon it now when we have provocted Gaul would have serious consequences in the north. Whereas the conflict hasn't yet started in Sicily

I say again we are unable to support two fronts- we soon will but at the moment...

Let us finish one war before we start another.

Primus Marcellinus remains standing but leaves a long pause between this and his next comment






Senator Pictor should be granted the 1500 denari and possibly more, but we do not yet have the resources to fully commit. We soon will and building an extra legion, along with retraining the ones we have should be a priority, but if we focus on one campaign then the other we will be able to surfice

[Ozy]

New dispatch from Sicily,

Senators of Rome,

I have received word from some of the debates happening in the Curia, and I wish to adress the following points.

First, I have not asked for reinforcements from Italy, only money to recruit more troops for my army, which would consist of Lybian spearmen recruited from Lylibaeum. That is to ensure that I would not be taking human resouces destined for the war in Gaul. However, if reinforcements were available, they would be most apreciated, and cavalry units would be preferable, if available.

Second, the problem with recruiting troops from the island is the fact that the roads of Sicily are in so poor conditions, that by the time the men from Lilybaeum reached Syracuse, many months would have passed, allowing the enemy to pillage and be unopposed in our land. That puts me on an unconfortable situation with these people, since allowing them to stay there for long would look as weakness from our part, which could result in the not too loyal people in the island turning to the side of the invader. On the other hand, contradicting some previous statements, I think, risking to sound overconfident, that the legions in Syracuse could defeat the enemy in battle, but I am sure that such a victory would take the lives of way too many Roman men.

For that, I have decided to wait and not rush an attack until the proper conditions are met, that is, until more troops are ready, despite the possible unrest that may come later.

For now, I await for your response on my requests, and hope our Consuls in the North the best luck in their campaign.

Proconsul Sp. Herrenius Pictor.
Governor of Sicily.

[Celsius]

"send the Proconsul what he needs. If he believes he can create an army in Sicily to handle the Rebels, then we can focus more on Gaul."

[stormer]

yes, I believe we should send the money to the proconsul and send the army to the north. I think we should also create a praetorian army to be ready to go in any direction.

Therefore I propose a motion:-

<insert latin name>

1- The consular army in Sardinia will be brought back for retraining, and then sent under a magistrate to fight in the war against the Gauls.

2- Creating one unit of Cavalry and sending it along with 1500 denarii to the proconsul in Sicily.

Edit:- ooc:- also, shouldn't we have done the building by now?

[chaplain118]

There seems to be some confusion regarding the origins of this enemy army. Allow me to refresh our memories. Senators, when Crassus was sent to Sicily to wrest her from the Carthaginians, he reported that the garrison of Agrigenteum was numerous and contained well seasoned veterans. As such, the garrison suddenly disappeared when Carthage was removed from the picture. Several spy reports indicated that these men have left the city, to where, we could not determine. As for Syracuse, I trust that Crassus was an able ruler who did not ferment such discontent among the populace that an army of this magnitude and well-trainedness would've sprung up from discontent peasants. No, this army is that very garrison in Agrigenteum. They have marched on our soil, taken up swords against our soldiers. The Proconsul has the right to engage these men and then march forth to take the city.

And before we start dictating to the Proconsul of the troops he need, let us remember that the purpose of the proconsul is to act as a ruling head of the province without needing to constantly check back with the senate. We cannot communicate in letters, hoping that our minds will match. We must trust in our magistrates and hope that he knows what is best. If he feels that he needs the cavalry to augment his forces, then he will send us the request.

Thus, he is free to make his military decisions within the budget that we've set him. He should find that he has free hand in this matter and can levy whatever troops he sees fit to handle this problem. Our armies in Italy should not be sent away from their posts to Sicily. Conversely, our army in the Punic Isles must be sent back to Italy, those men have been stationed at those islands for enough time now, and they are much needed back here.

ooc: name: Resolutio De Exercitu

[Raglan]

i agree senator saevus, senator Crescentius, i support your motion

ooc; the vote on the building work hasn't yet closed

[stormer]

Senators, it has come to me that because we have taken these three cities in quick succesion, don't you think the gauls will try and take them back, because I know that the Gauls are very numerous and most of thier armies might be tied up fighting another enemy of thiers on the other side of the alps. Therefore I want to caution our consuls on this matter.

[chaplain118]

The consuls will know how to react appropriately, Praetor, have faith in them.