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Thread: Divide And Conquer - An Expanded Faction Mod - Beta released! 3.99* series Sept 1st Oct ## NEWS! We have reached 31 faction limit !!! ##

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    Default Divide And Conquer - An Expanded Faction Mod - Beta released! 3.99* series Sept 1st Oct ## NEWS! We have reached 31 faction limit !!! ##

    ~Divide And Conquer~
    > Expanded Faction Modification for MII-TW <
    >>>>>>>>>> Third Age Total War <<<<<<<<<<
    >>>>>>>> hereafter refered to as 'DaC' <<<<<<<


    >> (1) News
    (2) Changes
    (3) the 'Read Me'
    (4) F.A.Q.
    (5) Developer Forum
    (6) Troubleshooting & Bugs
    (7) What is in that Mod?
    (8) 'DaC' Banners
    (9) Future Possibel Factions
    (10) Member Recruitment!
    (11) Recruiting & Team Info
    (12) Long Term View

    █ █ █ █ ~~ D O W N L O A D ~~ █ █ █ █
    Final BETA Package [aka 3.992 or series up to 3.999]
    link to part 1:
    link to part 2:

    The size is approx 1,816.00 MB [1.8 GB]

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Third Age Total War version 1.1 Compatible

    • Release Version Beta 3.99 is released.

    <<< DOWNLOAD v3.99 'DaC' HERE >>>
    MEGAUPLOAD (704.28 Mb)

    • (Next Version Beta 4 is currently being worked on.)


    █ █ █ █ ~~ I N S T A L L ~~ █ █ █ █

    Just download the 7z package, unpack it and play! How easy is that!

    All you need to install is M2TW and Kingdoms installed, dont even need TATW anymore! But dont forget about TATW.. Play it as well!

    -Download 7-Zip if you don't have it already and install it,
    -Most important, create a Third_AgeDAC folder in MedievalII (or what you have named it) "data\mods" or the game will not run!
    -unpack the Third_AgeDAC.7z.001 (second download needs to be in the same place). or open the archive, and drop the files into the 'Third_AgeDAC' folder into your "SEGA\Medieval II Total War\data\mods\" Folder.
    -run the game using the .bat

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Release Version Beta 3.75;
    An installation guide WITH IMAGES has been made, Please follow this link.

    Release Version Beta 3.99;

    An graphical installation guide is being made.

    (1) You may unpack the .rar and copy all files over a TATW 1.1 installation.
    *You will need to delete the map.rwm which is located in "SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\data\world\maps\base"
    *Also you will need to launch the game using the .bat & .cfg attached to this post. - They belong in "SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age" (overwrite the ones there already).
    NOTE: This is only for people who install over TATW 1.1 NOT DaC 3.75

    Or the best method is to unpack the .rar and copy all files over 3.75 installation, delete map.rwm and play.

    (3) If you do not have 3.75 and want DaC mod foldered - download the attached DaC Modfolder tools (For TATW 1.1) and place the files into your main directory "SEGA\Medieval II Total War"
    *Run first setup_for_dac.bat
    *Then Install 3.99
    *Last run final_touch_for_dac.bat
    > Also you will need to launch the game using the .bat & .cfg attached to this post. - They belong in "SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_AgeDAC" (overwrite the ones there already).
    > You may then upgrade TATW 1.1 to TATW 1.2

    TheArtfulDodger steps for installation.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    1. When you download the two large files (001 & 002) make sure that they are in the same place-- I.E Your Downloads Folder
    2. Now you nedd to create a Third_AgeDAC Folder in this location --Computer/YourHardDrive/Program Files/SEGA/Medieval2TW/Mods.
    3. Go back to your downloads folder, and open the first file(001) ONLY. Use the free program 7-Zip(get this off the first post) Right click the file(001) and select 7-Zip, then open archive. This should open with a list similar to this.---Custom(folder)
      ---Third AgeDAC.bat
      ---Third Agetest.bat

    4. This means that you have exactly what you need. DO NOT open the second file(002), i did this and my computer crashed, file 001 wouldnt open then i had to download again.
    5. Extract the file (001) NOT the folders!, into the folder you created earlier.
    6. Your now done, Enjoy. Run the game for the Third AgeDAC.bat and your off.

    1. Create a shortcut for the Third AgeDAC.bat to your desktop, for ease of acess.
    2. Edit the TATWDAC.cfg file to open in full screen. open in notepad and lok for this

    windowed  = true
    movies = false
    show_banners = 0
    grass_distance = 9000
    event_movies = 0
    sabotage_movies = 0
    Change the true, to false and save it



    Thanks to Tokus's beautiful Artistic touch.
    Thanks to our Teams Research and ideas.
    Thanks to yours truely coding.
    Thanks to TATW Team.

    Divide And Conquer - present to you, our Final set of Playable Factions, or more specifically, the Faction Selection Screen Showing off the relative Factions Symbols.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    From left to Right
    Green, TATW Vanilla, hardly changed
    Maroon, DaC Factions
    Purple, VoA made faction
    Blue, Special

    Top Left:
    1. Shadow of Mordor
    2. Shadow of Angmar
    3. Haradrim Tribes
    4. Easterlings of Rhun
    Top Right;
    5. Haven's Of Umbar
    6. Orcs Of The Misty Mountains
    7. Shadow Of Mirkwood
    8. Enedwaith & Minhiriath
    Bottom Row;
    9. Kingdom Of Gondor
    10. Principality Of Dol Amroth
    11. Northern Dunedain Rangers
    12. Kingdom Of Rohan
    13. Green Valleys of Folyavuld
    14. Wild Men of Dunland
    15. Vale of Anduin
    16. Orthanc
    17. Lake-men Kingdoms, Dale & Esgaroth
    18. Men & Hobbits of Bree-land
    19. Dwarves of the Iron Hills
    20. Dwarves of the Blue Mountains
    21. Longbeards of Khazad Dum
    22. Haven of Rivendell
    23. Silvan Elves of Eryn Lasgalen
    24. Havens of Lindon
    25. Silvan Elves of Lórien
    Non-Playable; (For 4.0 release).
    26. Ents of Fangorn (AI Defensive)
    27. Variags of Khand (Emergent Aggressive)
    28. Shadow of Orthanc (Emergent AI Faction)
    29. Unused (White Council)
    30. Unused (Kalmar Union Script, Banner Hosting Faction)
    31. Bandits


    Change for 3.99* BETA series:

    • Evil Men of Minhiriath, changed to Enedwaith & Minhiriath.
    • Enedwaith & Minhiriath gain provinces in Enedwaith.
    • Faction banners for All factions.
    • Royal banners for All factions.
    • NEW Strat map banners for All factions.
    • More vibrant colors for factions.
    • 1.2 faction win movies.
    • Loading screens, bars, building cards, portraits, unit cards, event pics from Louis Lux (1.2).
    • NEW DaC style Splash Screen.
    • Completed Faction Symbol set for All factions.
    • NEW Strat Textures, Mordor, Swamp, Temperate mountain, 3 new hill textures.
    • New settlement 'Gobel Mírlond' in 'Emyn Imlandrim' (South Gondor).
    • New garrison for rebel controlled Dunland.
    • Sauron commissioned Invasions are using Jihad instead of crusade.
    • New Elf sentinel for Lorien Elves.
    • Corsairs can recruit Ballista, and raider cavalry.
    • Corsair starting armies adjusted to include a few Carsair archers.
    • Enedwaith & Minhiriath units changed to be of a varied Composition at start.
    • Enedwaith & Minhiriath Units added to new settlements and 1 fort.
    • Names added for Carsairs, thanks lordyu.
    • Names changed for turns, to Seasons.
    • Taxes removed, now names represent the workers of a society.
    • Axnsan's new unique buildings added (1.2).
    • Captain Card for All factions.
    • Captain portrait for All factions.
    • Custom Portraits for all new spawned characters.
    • Event pics from Tokus*Maximus
    • New Diplomacy settings, in faction standings. few examples;

    1. If you attack evil, good like you more (vice versa).
    2. Ex-Allies & current allies start hating you because you broke the alliance, trust.
    3. If a good faction falls, other good factions start hating whoever it was who destroyed them. Evil factions start loving you.
    • Disasters added back in, plague, dustbowl, storm, flood, earthquake.
    • Added Lake Mirrormere to the strat map.
    • Faction choice screen now has maps to show area of control at game start.
    • Gameplay styles added in, Choose which Scripts are running in each game.
    • New Scripts include;\

    1. Special re-enforcements Script.
    2. Corsair Invasions.
    3. End of Sauron Script, Carn-Dum survival.
    4. Tokus*Events.
    5. WIP Faction assimilation script, for Gondor to claim Umbar.
    6. One Ring Script.
    7. Total War style Diplomacy.
    There may be some more changes, like Renown stated, up to this point we were not very good record keepers mainly because we just worked as hard as we could and posted the completed work on our server..

    So i hope you enjoy 3.99 - It is the last release for TATW 1.1.
    The next release will be based of TATW1.2 and we have plans to make DaC transferable a lot easier next time TATW is updated so there is no more delays.


    • DAC is in the process of adding interesting new scripts, including more alliance unit exchanges/reinforcements.
    • DAC is seeking another experienced modeller to compliment our talented team.
    • DAC is accepting applications for researchers and coders.
    • DAC is currently in the process of modifying the strat map, to bring back the unique cities.
    • DAC has reached 31 faction limit!
    • DAC is completing the largest events packagae ever seen. Why turn of FoW when events tell you everything that goes on in the world. It seems strange you dont get reports in explaining the current situation out there..


    Hotfix Changes:

    Only team members are receiving hotfix files at the present time.

    To be updated;
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    the 'Read Me' File:
    Click to view content: 

    Read me for Beta 3.5 of Divide and Conquer - TATW 1.1


    This is a half update, includes minor horde adjustments for units, and minor
    arrow/orc adjustments including some unit balancing in terms of build pools.
    This should also fix the crashes everyone's been experiencing.


    How to install - This is PRETTY presuming you've not fiddled with your game
    at all, i'm not too sure of compatability with other mods.

    Directory/mods/TATW/models_strat/residences/ and delete the
    factions_variants folder! this is mildly important)

    Unzip the CONTENTS of the DAC file into your Mods/Third_Age file. Include
    my TATW.cfg if you have random crashes (sometimes happens with movies
    i've found - unsure of the issue, will try and resolve.)

    Let the file OVERRIDE any existing files it asks permission for.

    Voila. Start a new game. If this is too hard for you, I refer you to a
    self-help manual.

    **** - the data file MUST BE DRAGGED or EXTRACTED into the mods/Third_Age folder - ******


    Couple of notes - First off - some of the faction symbols are still a bit
    screwy - primarily you see england/poland or aztec etc etc symbols over
    some unmanned (or in the Fog of War) settlements/forts. This will be fixed!

    there are a lot of things that are kind of screwy when compared to vanilla
    TATW. One of which is the Map graphics of the special cities like Minas
    Tirith and Helm's Deep. This is unfortunate but necessary for now while I
    work on a new way to implement them.

    There may be lingering silver units for some factions. I'll fix that soon. Some
    of the map graphics of generals/captains/units might be off a bit. I'll get
    there. Also some UI cards need to be assigned, sorry!

    Barad-dur is still currently incomplete. Expect it to be worked over next beta.


    Dol Guldur/Angmar are now Invinceable until you defeat Sauron in Barad-dur.

    Don't like it? Tough luck. Hope Nagrat treats you well.

    (This also means that the AI will indeed suffer in those regions until you
    defeat Sauron, so no matter which good faction you choose to play, you
    best concentrate on the real threat.)


    Team Members of Divide and Conquer

    Archaon - Diplomat in Chief - He's been doing all the standings/alliance
    editing, and will be coming out with new changes in the future for campaign
    ai. BE EXCITED!
    Renown - Possessor of the One Ring - I've been doing almost all of the text
    editing of the major parts of this mod so far, though I expect this to
    Tokus*Maximus - Bannerman - He is the official banner/2d graphics editor
    from TATW, and has graced our presence by agreeing to design our
    banners/2d art in the future. Expect this to be in one of the next two


    Germanicu5 - Part-Time AI work! Trying to pull this guy full time, he
    contributed the mixed BAI's for our sub mod, yay!


    Special Thanks go out to

    THE LOTR TATW Mod Team. Without them this wouldn't exist. Every single
    one of them helped created such an amazing mod that it pulled me back to
    M2TW after I threw away my cd's in frustration two years ago.

    Erutaron- testing
    All those who visit the thread and make valuable suggestions - You know who you are.


    Mod's that I've used

    Kai's Immortal Nazgul Version 1.0 *with some minor changes*
    Agostino's Additional Units - Added selectively *and will add more in the future*
    Taro_M's Ranger skin (will be worked on in the future)



    I seriously need to make one of these. Needless to say there are a ton of changes.

    New items - reduced economic presence.
    New Build-pool per units - resulting in a drastically different game depending on your faction.
    Immortal factions for Angmar and Dol Guldur. (will add it to Mordor soon).

    Three new units (though one is a teaser, and not fully done, and has only one unit in the game)
    Aragorn's grey company is temporarily Out Of Order. (Due to new textures
    from a mod.. will get them back for the next beta)
    New Banners/Faction Symbols
    New Battle AI.
    New Unit balancing.
    New Death of Mordor upon Sauron's defeat.



    The Future - Massive changes will be coming, including new units, new
    vnv's and ancills, brand new battle banners for the new factions, and
    unit/faction descriptions worthy of reading.
    Will be including unique buildings, more immersion via faction names, new
    factions... and tons more!

    See you guys soon, [user]Renown[/user]


    Click to view content: 

    Q. What is DAC?
    A. DAC is an expanded factions mod with many new elements including a
    reworking unit build pool, new units, new vnvs, new ancillaries, new
    territories, and new scripts.

    Q. I want to help! Can I join DAC? What can I do??

    A. Yes you can! Just visit us here. We want more scripters (1-2), 2d artists (2),
    researchers (1), text editors with experience in VnVs (1-2), and experienced
    modellers or textures (accepting talented beginners as well) - Just post
    examples of your work there, and we will see if you make the cut! We also
    always love suggestions and comments so keep er coming.

    Q. When will DAC go to a full release, why so many betas?

    A. Most mods release their work in GIGANTIC lump sums usually after
    several months of working, a good-great submod will usually take 2-6
    months for completition. We however are releasing our work on every major
    change or compilation of small changes to get feed back and tune our mod.

    Q. So if it's a beta, should I download it?
    A. Well, yes. I think you should. Ever now and then we will have issues (like
    the recent release of Beta 3) that were unexpected or caused by developer
    fault, but overall every release is a new game you are playing. With the
    expanded factions you've got new enemies to confront, and with new
    scripts you can get a little more role play involved (having to kill Barad-dur
    for example to have any chance of winng). Every beta improves this mod
    (or so we hope) so I would advise you to download it.

    Q. Do you guys have another area where you post like your own subforum?
    A. Yes we do, its still in its early stages of development, but should you
    wish to become a contributor in any number of ways you should definitely
    visit us here.

    Q. Will DaC ever include Reunited kingdom?
    A. Yes, but not until our BETA releases are at a stage that we can focus on
    more new factions.

    Q. Will the Northern Dunedain lands gain a faction representing Arnor?
    A. No, the Reunited Kingdom basically nullifies this possibility.

    Q. Will RotN gain more units to there roster?
    A. We plan for only one more unit, a spear/archer combination unit, WIP.

    Q. Will Lindon and Rivendell be reunited as High Elves?
    A. no, but if you want this feature speak to Archaon.

    Q. Why are buildings taking so long, and why is movement restricted?

    A. We use 6 turns per year, and the adjustments are nessesary. Also Some
    cities, etc will take for ever to upgrade due to low population growth.

    Q. Why do you have no costs for units (1 upkeep, and 1 cost), what are you doing with the economy??
    A. Units in Middle Earth had no such costs. Even the upkeep/training
    /creation of weapons were never adequately described. We are reducing
    the importance of the economic meta-game because the AI doesn't really
    handle it well and the usage of scripts in this instance can be counter-
    productive to the gameplay we want.

    Q. So then, how will you prevent massive stacks for every faction.
    A. Build Pool limitations, and turns-to-build, along side making it hard to
    expand settlements/and timely/costly to build barracks. This will allow for
    evil factions to all have certain advantages in producing units.

    Q. Huh??
    A. Elves/Dwarves will have very few, but powerful units, - you can only
    build one of each type every 8-25 turns depending on a varity of factors.
    This is also how other factions work!

    Q. Why do some of the map's strategic models for cities like Minas Tirith not appear as in vanilla
    A. Complicated, be assured that this is being worked on.

    Q. Whats with Aging in this mod?
    A. Well I've given ALL characters a max age of around 500+ years. This
    includes Elves, Dwarves, Humans, and Orcs etc. In the future we will look
    into ways of removing middle men or limiting their usefulness as age (in fact
    giving them 'death' or causing you to send them on suicide missions
    because of their negative attributes that would cause rebellion as we can't
    simple script death sequences without names. If you guys have other
    ideas... let me know!

    Q. Why is Moria/Khazad-dum it's own faction.
    Because I say so. It'll be hard to survive as Khazad-dum, consider it an
    easter egg. Balin is the Lord of Moria, but he is also the King of
    Khazad-dum. Consider it to be a difference between the lordship of one
    settlement, and the dominance over an entire realm. Titles have different

    Q. Why can't I recruit units as Khazad-Dum????!!!
    A. Dwarves currently require 60% culture to recruit new units, Khazad-dum
    starts off at 10-15% with no culture improvement buildings (as they had
    just reconquered Khazad-dum at game start. So... Get building!

    Q. What is this Nagrat guy, and what does he do?
    A. Nagrat prevents you smart bastards from dominating the map. Don't try
    and take Carn Dum or Dol Guldur. Instead focus on your real enemy, Barad-dur.


    New Development Forum:

    This is primarily for development reasons. I still encourage people to post here more than there- but this thread is more of a general one and an eye catcher - most of the 'work in progress' and ideas etc will end up on the other forum where the team & other contributors can discuss and work with more ease than via PM's and emails.

    We now enjoy an alliance with The Vale of Anduin Faction sub-mod team, and The Unfinished Tales Sub-mod.
    Our development forums are harmonious with all the members of each team working together.

    The link is here.

    Click me!


    Troubleshooting & Bugs:

    If you are having issues - please go here and post instead of in this thread

    >>> Bug & Troubleshooting forum <<<

    If you absolutely can't register on a new forum then do post
    within the thread.. but I will eventually get a FAQ.. or buglist
    etc up there and will get annoyed by people posting the same
    damn question in this thread.


    What is this Mod?:

    An expanded faction mod + new units + new recruitment system + new vnvs + new ancills + new scripts = a new TATW! =)

    Here are some of the factions currently in the submod.

    These are:
    Kingdom of Gondor, Including Dol Amroth*, and Council of Ecthelion. *
    Northern Dunedain Rangers.
    Kingdom of Rohan.
    Dwarves of Blue Mountains.
    Dwarves of the Iron Hills.
    Dwarves of Khazad Dum.
    Orcs of the Misty Mountains.
    Orcs Of Mordor, including Shadow of Angmar, and Shadow of Mirkwood.
    Haradrim Tribes, Variags of Khand.*
    Tribes of Rhun.
    Corsairs of Umbar.
    Vale of Anduin. *
    Hobbits & Men of Bree-land.
    Lakemen Kingdoms Dale & Esgaroth.
    Orthanc*, including Tower of Orthanc (White Council)*, and Shadow of Orthanc.
    Wild Men Of Dunland.*
    Enedwaith & Minhiriath.
    Silvan Elves of Lorien,
    Ents of Fangorn. *
    Silvan Elves of Eryn Lasgalen.
    Elves of Imlandris, including White Council of Elrond.*
    Elves of Lindon.

    These factions will CURRENTLY be using the same unit list as in Vanilla
    TATW, with minor adjustments currently.

    *These factions are new and unreleased.


    'DaC' Banners you can wear:
    Click to view content: 


    Future Possibel Rebel Factions:

    • Men of Eotheod. - (precursors of Rohan south of Ered Mithrin)
    • The Shire. (or some dedicated Hobbit faction)
    • Snowmen of Forodwraith or Forochel.
    • The Druadan.
    • Tribes of Rhovanion.

    >>> Also, if there were enough units/models created, i'd consider making
    a faction of the Dead. so to speak. Barrow-wights, and other dark evils
    that were spread across the land in certain places of ill-fortune. <<<

    I'm open minded, and possibly willing to take DAC into some more mythical
    aspects of the combat in the future.

    These factions will CURRENTLY be using the same unit list as in Vanilla
    TATW, with minor adjustments currently.


    'DaC' is recruiting new Team Members:

    More scripters, texturers, modellers, and basic text junkers with experience in VnVs.
    I'm accepting 99% of applicants pending they show me something you've done, send it to me, and if its a good example and fits well with our overall line of thought. Then you may have just made the team.

    On the Eve of our forth Major release...

    Renown, Tokus*Maximus, and myself are looking to make this mod, basically the TATW equivalent of DLV. With a couple differences. We are still in a BETA phase right now.. going through and trying to balance all the factions within reason, and also make it fun to play.

    Renown’s Vision; I also deeply desire immersion which will make people go wow. I want Ancillaries that mean something and look cool, and also aren't given out in every campaign.

    I want VnV's to track your lineage, and Ancills for lordship of certain settlements. I want to bring scripters here that will enable us to create interesting events ingame, and make it so that each time you play you receive a different game, Even if you play the same faction.

    I want variation in the battles (something that germanicu5 was assisting us with).

    I want you to rest your character in the Barrowdown's, and have him be withered by the wights who lived there.

    I want you to watch as the free people's of middle earth suffer under a 7 pronged attack each in different directions.

    I want you to meet an army of Mordor with your Gondorian milita, because it was all you had left to throw at it. While your elves in Rivendell finally pick up the fight, with enemies to the North and East...


    Recruiting & Team Info:

    Needs to be updated;

    • Bannerman - Filled - [user]Tokus*Maximus[/user] (Banners, Faction Symbols, Misc. Other Graphics)

    • Diplomat in Chief - Filled - [user]Archaon[/user] (Diplomacy A.I., Facton Standings, Alliances, Misc. Scripts)

    • Script-Lord - Part-time - [user]Archaon[/user] and i ([user]Renown[/user]) need assistance with scripts, and the ones we'd like to build.

    • Victoria's Secret Modeller - I'm ([user]Renown[/user]) going to need many models for the new factions and rework some of the ones there.

    If you want to help otherwise - I'm always accepting suggestions, and any
    lore or useful bits of information are welcome too. (I might argue, but I'll
    read as well i'm a historian by education so... i try to keep an open mind)

    If you think you can add something valuable here, let me know either in the
    thread or a PM and we will see...

    I personally hate how people release mods in this day and age. All bluster,
    and hype, and when they are released I'm usually underwhelmed. So I'm
    taking the beta by beta approach, I'll release on major (and sometimes
    minor steps). I'm also currently seeking approval from certain people to use
    their units in the mod, and will be approaching more folks for their work to
    use to save me time from editing certain things.

    Special Thanks go out to;

    Agent Smith - Master scribe, he is our very energetic text file editor for the 3.99 release.

    bilwit - for his new elven unit, he came to us to help develop his skill.

    Arvedui - For his Lore Sub mod - And presence at our Dev forum.

    THE LOTR TATW Mod Team. Without them this wouldn't exist. Every single
    one of them helped created such an amazing mod that it pulled me back to
    M2TW after I threw away my cd's in frustration two years ago.

    Erutaron- testing
    All those who visit the thread and make valuable suggestions - You know who you are.

    axnsan- for his constant presence at our Dev forum. His unique buildings in TATW1.2 were in our 3.75 release

    Louis Lux- For his Visual Enhancement mod.
    3.99 Would be very small if it were not for him enjoy the building images TATW 1.2 left out

    Azim- For his future scripting assistance. I can tell you are all very excited! Bringing some DotS help into the DaC mix!

    Tokus*Maximus- cannot thank this man enough! His very talented work is, well, everywhere in DaC - battle banners, symbols, events, royal banners, even a couple unit cards


    Renown's Long Term View:

    Below in the spoiler is the LONG ass version of what I will be doing. Read
    this if you want to know where I'm going with this. If you've followed my
    posts throughout, you wont need to. If you just want to play with new
    factions, you're going to want to know what direction I have in stored or
    you will be surprised what you are getting.
    Click to view content: 

    What I will be editing - Campaign unit values and strategy. Buildings/Units
    (Cost/Recruitment time/values) will be greatly edited. Except playing as an
    Elf, or Ranger to be VERY difficult. You will have the BEST units, but very
    very very very very few of them. Growth will be modified for certain
    factions so that expansion will be all but impossible.

    If you want to grow and conquer the world, you'll have to play as an evil
    faction, or Gondor/Rohan/Dale-Esgaroth.

    Dwarves will be slightly easier (in Erebor), but also quite difficult in Belegost,
    and nigh impossible to survive in Moria.

    I'm adding in Moria, because... well, damn it, it'll be fun. VERY limited units
    off of start and numbers. as in, as low as I can get it. If I can make it 8
    people in the city, and the army, I WILL.

    I'll be adjusting the start time of the mod so that it is basically
    LORE-Appropriate for Moria.

    Angmar/Dol Guldur/Barad-dur are seperate orc powers. The Dark-lord is no
    longer unseen, and now is a true force to be reckoned with. Angmar is a
    small/weakish power at first, but like all Orc's the ability to rapidly grow is
    unparalled. Dol Guldur is a moderately wealthy/strong area, and is bound to
    give the elves trouble.

    Elven factions/Dwarven factions are split, for two reasons, A) they had
    presence in these regions and they were different kingdoms/realms. b) the
    AI sucks at dealing with factions with seperated provinces - especially with
    friendly powers in between. (This goes for Dol Guldur as well)

    Men of Bree, and Rangers of the North are both quite limited in unit roster
    and potential for growth. Men of Bree are a weak power, make no mistake,
    and host the weakest roster in the game. They rely on mercs/milita and
    towns guards. Their only safety comes in the sheltering hand of the elves
    on both sides, and the rangers of the north. The Rangers - a VERY STRONG
    power, but moderated by its even smaller growth potential than the elves.
    They are dying, they don't have many men, and their build capacity is
    almost nothing. You use what you have, and you struggle to get more.
    Can you turn it around? In the face of Angmar, and the Orcs of the Misty
    Mountains? Perhaps not.

    Men of Minhiriath - Not much is mentioned about these shadowy folks in the
    books. They once were a foe of Arnor, but were devestated by wars and
    plagues. They are kin to Dunlenders, and are small in number.
    They are howerver, better individual warriors then the men of Bree-land,
    and serve as opposition to them. Limited growth potential.

    City States of Umbar - I had to do it, Harad + Umbar was too strong in my
    opinion, especially with changes I've made to unit costs/building. So I
    decided to split them, making Umbar the Corsair faction with cheap boats,
    cheap infantry - but not much variety. Expect them to invade Gondor via
    water, and harass them with their navy, but not much else. This is basically
    a check for Harad - so they aren't as initially powerful (I found in most of
    my games, Harad quickly outpaced Rhun, and shortly thereafter Mordor.

    +++ - Dunland- I'm not certain of where I'll go with this, I may very well
    add it as a seperate faction, but would need some more units (2-3) to do
    so really, and I fear it's in a complicated situation as they (unlike their
    cousins in Minhiriath aren't necessarily evil). Might use that lithuanian script
    to add them in (have them choose either Good or Evil so to speak, or maybe
    make them a resource, and let anyone build them who controls their territory.

    Battles in DAC = Very hefty units for the men of Gondor, elves, and rangers.
    Dwarves are good heavy infantry as well, with the horsemen of Rohan being
    unsurpassed. Dale's infantry are decent, but about average with Breeland
    being sub-par. This will lead to small units from the forces of 'Good' dealing
    with far larger enemy armies (I fought an army of 8000 orcs, with 300 elves
    for example). It is QUITE unbalanced until you take into consideration that
    those elves are damned hard to replace, and numbers are a quality of their
    own. Trolls are devestating as well, and would be more widely used except
    they are rare/costly for even the dark lord of barad-dur. Basically most of
    the battles are totally one-sided, as a general of the good you must expect
    to win battles, but your strategy comes in HOW MANY do you lose. too
    many and you end up being over run by stack, after stack, after stack,
    after stack... get the picture?

    Gondor has the best chance of winning, larger armies, better infantry then
    the orcs, and some special amazing units (Rangers have been both boosted,
    and curtailed in numbers, as have the Unmounted Dol Amroth knights, and
    the fountain guard.) Gondor is under attack from Harad, Umber, Mordor, and
    every now and then Barad-Dur. Considering each faction can afford to send
    4-6 stacks for every Gondor stack, you can quickly be overwhelmed unless
    you strategically guard certain areas, and make alliances wth the right folks.

    Rohan - Weak, and i do mean weak, infantry, with two exceptions, but
    amazing cavalry, that is utilized properly can decimate the enemy. WE are
    talking supremely destructive charges. Weakness? Sieges, city assaults,
    pikes. Isengard is a good match for this power. Rohan is neither too strong,
    nor too weak.

    Dwarves will be in trouble dealing with slow growth (but not as bad as the
    elves or rangers), and orcs to all sides. Their infantry will be extremely
    deadly, but their ranged units will be quite curtailed. Moria - hah, good luck

    Basically I wanted to expand the fight, and the map a bit (I've already
    added several new regions in areas near - Trollshaws/Bree, Gladden-Fields,
    and will continue to add what I believe is feasible in under-occupied areas.

    Lore's place - I'm making this fun, but semi-realistic according to lore. Elves
    will NOT be able to conquer the world (easily, or so I hope), nor will the
    rangers. Unit rosters, etc... will be worked out bit by bit, and release by
    release. This is not completely out of lore, but nor will it exactly follow. I'll
    try to make the starting point as LORE appropriate as I can, but once the
    game starts, thats where YOUR fantasy begins.

    Buildings - will take MULTIPLE turns to construct, or just a fortune, I'm
    going to try and establish cities and keep them at their starting points for a
    couple of factions (elves/rangers/bree..) but allow for faster expansion for
    evil men, orcs, etc.. with dale also having speedy construction and dwarves
    being moderate.

    Middle earth was fairly stagnant in terms of development, and most new
    colonies just meant their old home died (Rohan is a perfect example of
    having moved it's home TWICE in the past 1000 years.) Dwarves spread
    out, and basically everywhere except erebor kind of faded away. Belegost is
    basically just a colony at this time. Bree-land men were spotted throughout
    eriador, but were ultimately not that much more populous than the hobbits
    who also lived in the aduin. (Might add a faction over there, similar to
    bree-land except a little bit tougher - better units) Gondor is below its
    prime, advanced buildings will be few and far between. Once you lose
    certain areas (minas tirith/dol amroth) expect your game to become
    signifigantly harder.

    I will likely be heavily editing the VnV's/Ancills in the future, this has always
    been my area of expertise in mods, and I've done much editing in a number
    of small/medium sized works in the past. The limited VnV additions in TATW
    disappointed me greatly (in fact, it was the only bit that had me sad.)

    Expect the first release within two days of this post. I'm working out kinks,
    and getting all the boring text editing done right now. Then, after that
    expect balancing acts to be done constantly. The first release will be very
    much a beta.

    What I'd like from others - units. Pure and simple, thats what I will be
    seeking from other mods more than anything else, and wouldn't mind a
    dedicated helper in this regard.


    (SPECIAL THANKS GOES OUT TO CAS! Without her, I'd uh.. have gotten
    this done a lot faster, but the amazing thing is she doesn't mind when
    I work on this when she's around. Yay!!)


    I need to thank Jess and Scarlett also, without Jess's approval to go ahead and get into serious modding again (being a big nerd ) We would still be playing 3.75 for another month at least.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    I'd suggest first of all asking other mods permission to use their units.. some units despite not being made for the LOTR world would fit in... I was taking a look at The Last Kingdoms units and thought to myself.. "wow, those units would be cool for Dale".. and I was looking at Ruischi and saw a few potential Eriador units (their woodsmen are awesome). So I suggest browsing and pming... interesting idea BTW but I wouldn't suggest making Moria a dwarf faction... they had an extremely small army there... at most make it owned by a small Erebor garrison.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    i know it was extremely small, it did in fact start with just 8.

    It was however completely seperate from Erebor (and the king of erebor had forbade them from going, or something like that), so that wouldn't make much sense.

    I do expect it to die, but, i'm not in any crunch for factions, so it'll stay in until i need an extra one.

    I'll definitely do as you suggested for units, but expect most unit modifications and additions to come after the first two releases ( which as i've mentioned will be quickly compared to other places). I'm getting most of the text editing and factions in place correctly without crashing (a feat on its own in M2TW) then expanding the unit rosters.
    Last edited by Renown; May 17, 2009 at 03:33 PM.
    Son of the Ancient Archaon, House of Siblesz

  4. #4

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    I hate to rain on your parade, but have you read DG's sticky? Further, do you have a team? We might be looking at Rome III by the time you finish this alone...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    well if he's asking for models from other mods that have permission then he's not breaking the rules as long as he asks for permission as well (which would almost definitely in that case be granted, I'd assume). And it doesn't take that long to seperate factions... probably a few hours a faction, though then you have to do 2D art (or should at least) and fun stuff like that. The basic separation though is relatively easy, if incredibly boring.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    with all due respect - yes i've read the sticky. and it refers to the editing of models/textures by DG. Which I AM NOT changing at this point in time. If I change them in the future, I'll be sure to message him.

    I'm primarily making this for myself, first and foremost. I've been making bigger mods then this since Shogun, if only for myself. I used to work on mini-mods for RTR... etc... I like a better base then say vanilla to work off of. Since I don't have the graphical ability to make a whole bunch of better looking units.

    And as I've said will be releasing in bits and pieces. I'm a fan of that, rather then the huge large lump sum releases that take months.

    For many reasons, a) it gives players something to play, b) it helps attract attention (which I only care about for model editing/graphics). I can do the graphical stuff, but its not my speciality. I'm a boring text editor. And as Jon says, it's not THAT difficult. It's just time consuming, boring, and meticulous. All of which I am.

    Trust me, you'll have a barebones release shortly - i'm currently just editing out the family tree's and assigning units. The factions themselves are built (though yes, I need to work on 2d art, but that's a graphical thing and not my priority.) I suspect people want to play with more factions, it adds more fun for me, even without great unit diversity. I don't think they will care (initially) about whether or not the faction symbol makes sense, as they know it will in the future.

    It just has to do with how you like to release your work.
    Last edited by Renown; May 17, 2009 at 03:41 PM.
    Son of the Ancient Archaon, House of Siblesz

  7. #7

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    suspect people want to play with more factions, it adds more fun for me, even without great unit diversity.
    I like your idea, good luck with your project .
    I hope you ask all necessary permissions and manage to release this little modification, it would be a new and interesting experience to have so many little factions to play with, regardless if they have a balanced unit roster or not.

  8. #8
    Black_Nebula's Avatar Tiro
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Iowa City, USA

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    I like the idea, ill give er a shot! Good luck!
    "I find your lack of faith...disturbing" -DV

  9. #9
    CtrlAltDe1337's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    I'd love to see some of the factions split, like the goblins and dwarves. Good luck

  10. #10
    Blackomur89's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    I agree. Some factions should be split but not that much.
    2D artist for Call of Warhammer TW; 2D artist for Westeros TW; 2D artist and researcher for The Ruins of Arnor TATW sub-mod; 2D artist for Warcraft TW.

  11. #11
    MadTiest's Avatar Miles
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    The seven seas

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    I'm a bit sceptical. One of the main positive aspects of TATW is the fact that presently almost every faction appeals to me and will (eventually) be played at least once. If I were to install this mod I doubt I'll play every faction, especially not when the rosters will be limited. I also enjoy growing and building..
    That said, I do enjoy starting out small, and different gameplay for different factions sounds interesting

  12. #12

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    Quote Originally Posted by MadTiest View Post
    I'm a bit sceptical. One of the main positive aspects of TATW is the fact that presently almost every faction appeals to me and will (eventually) be played at least once.
    I have to say TATW is the only mod for any game with this many factions that I can say this for. I think there would need to be a lot of diplomacy upgrades for this mod to really shine.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    the glorious thing about sub-mods is if they don't appeal, then dont download.

    The diplomacy will be modded as time progresses.

    Growth, and limited unit rosters may not appeal to all, but it appeals to me and I am making it for myself =) If no one wants it its no skin off my back.

    I think the most effective thing this mod will do, is allow for the factions to appropriately deal with threats. The AI doesn't do very well with factions that are split by a large distance. High Elves, Silvian Elves, Dwarves, etc ... all 3 had great difficulty functioning efficiently. Dol Guldur also was mainly ignored, despite being a VERY dangerous threat in Mirkwood.

    Bree-land was mostly a non-threat. The books make it clear that the menfolk there posed no serious threat, and cowered in the face of the enemy - though Hobbits have stood against enemies - more forces of hobbits - spear/mauls etc would be appropriate. The only thing that kept Bree safe was the Rangers. However, including Bree and the Rangers together would make for too potent a force, and I liked the idea that they would be exclusive, fierce warriors with sword, spear and bow, but very limited.

    I'd just have to make it so in the diplomacy files that certain factions don't war on themselves or make them have high tolerance levels (Belegost, Lindon, Bree, Rangers, Rivendell).

    We don't really know what would happen after the fall of sauron. Men, being men, don't need a great dark evil to end up going to war. As proven by conflict in middle earth throughout all the ages. Basically - as long as the evil factions are alive, those will be targeted first. After that... the world is game.
    Last edited by Renown; May 17, 2009 at 07:08 PM.
    Son of the Ancient Archaon, House of Siblesz

  14. #14

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    I'm not saying don't make, I'm saying you are really going to need to focus on campaign AI and diplomacy stuff or all the work you spent on splitting up factions isn't going to be as productive as it should. The main draw of more factions is better and more varied interactions between them right?
    Last edited by Lap; May 17, 2009 at 07:41 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    why would the ranger have no growth potential. they had 1000+ years to hid and rebuild a sizable population. there were only 30 rangers because that is what they could find on a dime. I think the population is there but is hiding and in small villages around Rivendell and Rhudaur. they are not large but enough to successfully rebuild the northern Kingdom where they were not able after the witch-king.

    NO good leader could ever rebuild a kingdom where Sauron would home in and destroy if the moment they try.

    think of the reason the witch-king was sent in the first place. it is suicide even with elven allies.
    Last edited by lordyu; May 17, 2009 at 08:03 PM.

  16. #16
    Alkarin's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Aberystwyth,Wales UK

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    Should rangers of the north be renamed to The Realm of Arnor?
    You look great today.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    Bree was protected by the rangers. the two should be one faction.

  18. #18
    Alkarin's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
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    Aberystwyth,Wales UK

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    Quote Originally Posted by lordyu View Post
    Bree was protected by the rangers. the two should be one faction.
    well im personally just trying to find a way to where i can establish a realm of arnor! Bree townsfolk can defend themselves
    You look great today.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    Around Rivendell, Rhudaur and the Angle are where most Dúnedain lived.

    here map
    Last edited by lordyu; May 17, 2009 at 08:29 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Divide And Conquer sub-mod

    Feel free to make your own mod then Lordyu.

    I'm giving the Rangers more than 30 men, their provinces surround the North, NE, and East of Bree. (SE being rebel, W being elvish, and SW being the evil men.) The two were certainly quite distinct forces (with the Dunedain protecting the Men, but being Not of them) from what I've read, and either way its what I'm making =) - Gameplay wise, adding the dunedain to bree gives them great expansion potential or, you would have to lower the effectiveness of the rangers. I'd rather the units be distinct and awesome.

    I thought of creating not Arnor, but Arthedain, but the name means a lot to me, a Realm suggests numbers, and while I'm giving the Rangers many provinces, I'm keeping the numbers low of their troops and making the recruitment delay HIGH. (10-15 turns for a single unit

    and I will be working on the campaign AI.
    Last edited by Renown; May 17, 2009 at 08:39 PM.
    Son of the Ancient Archaon, House of Siblesz

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