Hoplon shields size

[miltiades]

This time i think about 20 greek mods are already established. Personally i like the original greek models and textures of RTW but the basic shield size is too small.
The hoplon can be seen as the most important equipment of the greek hoplite, in particular in the traditional phalanx warface about 600 to 250 b.c . The shield diameter of a greek hoplon in the time period of RTW, acccording to my information, was between 81 and 100 cm. This is quite huge, so that the space between the knees and the sholder is protected as well as the right side of the nearby hoplite in the phalanx.
I unfortunately don´t have any version of 3dmax and so not be able to model a bigger, more historical hoplon. So i am asking if there is anyone who can fix this " problem" by creating models with a bigger shield size or is able to tell me where i can get a version of 3dmax.

[markolitos]

is this how big it should be?

[miltiades]

This is exactly what i am talking about. Nice work markolitos. Is it possible to download this model and if yes is it compartible with the standard texture of the armoured hoplite of RTW ?

[JP226]

yea i like that too, i've been dying fora new generic hoplite

[Prof]

öhm....I saw 2 hoplite-shields in greece. they had a diameter of ~1,40m

[meh_cd]

You'll have to re-arrange the shield so that it isn't clipping into the body during the game though.

[markolitos]

I cant get it ingame (which means i don't know how it will look and the shield will probably have to be adjusted) because rtw is screwing around so ill just post model and original skins.
this is how it looks:

[Cyber Ice X]

It looks fine to me. Although there's a bit of clipping when the fighting actually gets underway. Could you please make a big hoplon skin and model for militia and regular hoplites (no need for spartans, there are plenty of them already).

EDIT : That said, I use the fs_javelinman animation, so normal users might get major clipping

[andriyko]

You could twist the left hand and assign all of it to bone_LUpperarm. This way one can avoid clipping -- tested with large knit shield.

[Holger Danske]

You could twist the left hand and assign all of it to bone_LUpperarm. This way one can avoid clipping -- tested with large knit shield.

Damn he looks wierd?!

[GODzilla]

Originally posted by Prof@May 24 2005, 10:40 PM
öhm....I saw 2 hoplite-shields in greece. they had a diameter of ~1,40m

Hey Prof, welcome back. You brought some hoplons with you? :grin

[Outlawstar15a2]

is modeling and skinning hard or can somebody with a little practice and skill pick it up? because i really want to learn about it but i don't know a thing about modeling and skining to get started with.

[markolitos]

I got it to work ingame but it still needs adjustment.

[miltiades]

One more time i want to thank you for making your model and skin available, markolitos. Of course it would be perfect to use the same shield size also for the original - hoplite and pylos hoplite of sparta to complete the look of the greek heavy infantry.

[Idomeneas]

Originally posted by markolitos@May 25 2005, 06:49 AM
I got it to work ingame but it still needs adjustment.

Those hoplons are way too big. The right size is from neck to thighs not knees. Rememder that with all that pushing in phalanx formation the left knee was bented. I dont think the Hoplon has diameter 1,40. But because im not sure i can measure one next time in museum. Remember that the forearm where hoplon was held should be in on the line of diameter. You can always see some amphora drawings where many hoplons are shown. For me the right size is abit (just abit) larger than CA's also relmember that it has held by the grip on the edge of the rim and the forearm holder, so it wasnt held like roman or gaul one grip shields but closer to the body

[andriyko]

Originally posted by Holger Danske@May 25 2005, 05:20 AM

You could twist the left hand and assign all of it to bone_LUpperarm. This way one can avoid clipping -- tested with large knit shield.

Damn he looks wierd?!

who?

[markolitos]

I dont like how much room there is between the usual size shield, Is this better( i like how they look on militia hoplites )?

[miltiades]

Idomedeas. I agree with your opinion that the shield size of 1,40 m is to big. We have to keep up in our mind that a man of this period of time was, on average, about 1.60 to 1.70 m tall. Just imagine the proportion - soldier 1.70 - hoplon 1.40 .
Also the hoplon model of markolitos is a bit to large but i think better than the original one.
According to the way the hoplon is held by the soldier a new animation would be needed. If these arguments could be fixed in an appropriate way it would be more historical accurate.

[miltiades]

Markolitos. Once again good work. When you are changing the unit distance from 1 to 0.8 the right side of the soldier is protected by left side of the nearby soldier in the phalanx, exactly how it was.

[markolitos]

Thanks but i'm still having probs with rome, one of them is i dont know what the .rum files are for but they seem to change the shield size on my model back to normal which had me restarting rome and remaking models several times. anybody know what .rum files do(they seem to have appeared when installing 1.2)? how do i change unit distance? BTW, after deleting them the shield is original size