When we study ancient Athens today, should we think less of its other achievements because of its slave culture? [I Am Herenow vs. CobraStallone]

[I Am Herenow]

Classical Athens is, in modern times, often looked up to as the cradle of democracy and Western civilisation. And yet, underpinning that proto-democratic system was the institution of slavery, which is today considered by general consensus to be abhorrent. I shall argue that Classical Athens' glaring imperfections such as its slave system undermine its overall successes and greatness and thus should make us today think less highly of the ancient state.

In order to fully comprehend the scale of the problem of slavery, as we would now see it, in Athens, it would be worth examining it in detail. Slaves were typically non-Greeks who had been captured as prisoners of war, uprooted from their homelands and transported, against their will, to Greece (Freeman, Charles, The Greek Achievement: The Foundation of the Western World, p. 123). Not only were they forced to work for a master and receive no wage for it, something which might be expected of a slave system, but the mental attitude displayed by the Athenians towards their slaves betrays a distinct lack of modern thought on the part of the beacon-holders of Western civilisation. Slaves were considered by law to be property, rather than people, and their physical and sexual abuse was "freely allowed" (Freeman, p. 123). For reasons best known to themselves - I would hypothesise that it were because of slaves' perceived untrustworthiness - the Athenians had codified a law which stated that all slaves must be tortured before giving evidence in court. If this were not enough, then the slave owners could later claim compensation for themselves for any damage to their "property" which this may have caused (Freeman, p. 124).

What modern standards would judge to be the disgusting attitude displayed by the Athenians toward their slaves is exemplified by Xenophon, who, in his writings, commented that male and female slaves were kept separate "so that [they] would not breed without permission" (Freeman, p. 123), his choice of language clearly demonstrating the sub-human status which he appointed slaves.

To conclude this opening argument, we cannot possibly maintain our whitewashed view of a perfect, morally superior Classical Athens if we take into account their abhorrent attitudes towards their slaves.

I Am Herenow

[CobraStallone]

I'll take the stand that the fact that they had slaves does not undermine their achievements. For starters I think that since it was considered normal back then they had no way of assuming they were wrong doing. And although slavery is a particulary evil activty of the human beigns, we have to try to understand it on the original context, for example you used to beat your slaves, but you also used to beat your kids, so if you were raised to think that slave possesion was not particularly wrong, it does not make you a particularly bad person, it doesen't go against your moral values.

[I Am Herenow]

That may be so for Athenians at the time, but I am arguing that for us studying them today, their use of slavery shows us that their society was not a perfect one, as some philhellenes might have us believe. The fact that the Athenians made no attempt to abolish slavery as an institution, and did not appear to think that it might be a principally flawed one, demonstrates that society had a way to go from the Classical Athenian model. Indeed, Freeman even argues that slavery was an intrinsic part of the Athenians' own feeling of freedom, as they could only feel free by comparing themselves to others who were not (p. 51), which suggests an inherent fault with Classical Athens.

I Am Herenow

[CobraStallone]

That may be so for Athenians at the time, but I am arguing that for us studying them today, their use of slavery shows us that their society was not a perfect one, as some philhellenes might have us believe.

Well I don't think that a society not beign perfect is a reason to think less of it. Since well, no society is beign perfect, and probable none will be. So I don't think that 200 hundred years from now people will think less of our acomplishments beacuse we have poor people, for example.