1.1 Changed units

[grinder]

I tweaked some units to my personal liking. Those units are:

All high elven units
- increased stats (mainly defense skill)
- lower numbers (150 on huge to 125 for low-tier units and 100 for elite-units)
- increased cost

All Sindar elven units - same as above, but a little less extreme at each part

Dunedain Rangers
- lower in numbers (per unit) stats increased, 2 hitpoints, more expensive

Trolls

Cave trolls:
- 6hp -> 4hp
- slightly decreased attack (to 30)
- defense decreased (to 25, 15 armor, 10 skill - they have thicker hide, but are clumsier than mountain-trolls)
- cost increased to 1400

Mountain trolls:
- 6hp -> 4hp
- slightly decreased attack (to 27)
- defense decreased (to 25, 12 armor, 13 skill - thinner hide, but a little more agile than cave-trolls)
- cost decreased to 1200

Olog-Hai:
- 6hp -> 4hp
- slightly decreased attack (to 33)
- defense decreased (to 32, 20 armor, 12 skill)
- cost increased to 1900

http://files.filefront.com/13757158

Put the file into Medieval II Total War\mods\third age\data

Edit: Just to show you that trolls can still kick as:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[

that was a Gondorian force consisting of: 1 ballista 2 Gondor spears 2 militia archers 1 Pelagian marines 1 Citadel Guard (General) 1 Lossarnarch axemen
vs. 1 unti of Olog-Hai and 2 units of mountain trolls...

[marceror]

Hopefully you've asked for permission from Disgruntled Goat and King Kong to make your game modifications public.

[King Kong]

Well, the new announcement applies only to models and textures, not to anything else.

I will not allow texture or model modifications of my units without my permission

Otherwise I would have to forbid literally every sub-mod and that's not what I intend.

[marceror]

This means sub mods for TATW and other mods not in the LotR genre may not use the material unless permission is expressly given by their creator, DisgruntledGoat.

Any mods that are posted for public consumption that contains my textures OR models that did not have my written permission will be reported to the administration.

Okay, well than the OP at least needs Disgruntled Goat's permission to post this "mod" publicly. I specifically used the example of a modified EDU with him yesterday, and he was very clear about this. Because you (talking to King Kong) said you would follow the same model, I expected that you were, well, following the same model. Didn't mean to misrepresent you. The quote I am referring to, by the way is:

From now on I will follow DG's example and I will not allow texture or model modifications of my units without my permission. Everything he said applies to my factions

I think this is going to start getting confusing for the modding community to keep straight....

[JonSnow]

I'm really REALLY trying not to say something I'll regret, but it's difficult. Is this seriously worth a thread..? Unless you did things you didn't mention it looks like you didn't bother to balance all the factions..? So what is the point of making a submod that changes around a dozen units stats..? Almost anybody could do it...? Ugh... god I'm trying not to freak out.. but I'm twitching... GOD IT'S HARD.

[King Kong]

@marceror
no, it's not confusing since DG also only speaks of models and textures.

Any mods that are posted for public consumption that contains my textures OR models that did not have my written permission will be reported to the administration.

Also, all scripting of TATW is completely my work (except ancillaries) so I think I have the final word on this.


@Jon Snow,
Totally agree with you actually, but I'm just here to clear this sub-mod issues.

[marceror]

Actually I had a whole conversation with him about this yesterday. Any mod that contains his models or textures needs to be approved by him first. A modified edu, the most basic mod possible, creates a modified version of the game that, when played, will contain DG's models and textures. That dialogue is all in his post that is stickied.

As I mentioned, I specifically asked him about modified EDUs, and he was very clear about his stance. In his view, if anything about the TATW is changed, it needs his blessing, unless his models and textures are removed from the game.

[Kolaris8472]

And DG's second post in that thread...

This only applies to the art work (texture files and models).

[marceror]

Yeah, I saw that post also, and asked him in that same thread if that meant he was only concerned about people modding HIS work. In spite of the above quote, that is NOT what he means. In his view, if his work (modified or not) is included in the final product, he needs to bless it. He even repped me for being one of the few folks to understand what he's saying.

I'm not necessarily saying that agree with his stance on this, just that this is the stance he's taken.

[Mithrandir]

Also, all scripting of TATW is completely my work (except ancillaries) so I think I have the final word on this.

You forgot about the garrison script, I guess Tsarsies has the final say on that?

[grinder]

I only uploaded this, because someone directly asked me to do so. As I wrote I just modified the units to my personal liking. And I am sorry, that I hadn't asked for permission. Even if not required... I just didn't think about it. Sorry, again.

The balancing-issue, well... I did my best to balance them against the other factions (mostly I tested against Gondor/Rhun, 2 factions with a pretty jack-of-all-trades-approach). I played many custom battles with the units I edited. 1 on 1 and in bigger battles. And I think that the balancing is not downhill or something. With the edited elves, aswell as against them, (both highelves and Sindar) I get the same victories as with unedited versions. I just found that they were too many and too unskilled compared to lore. Especially their elite-units (and it is not that I tripled their stats or something). All other factions were already as I wished them to be, so I didn't see any need to edit them.
And the trolls... well, just look at this screen (op). The battle didn't go how I planned, I admit that. And I guess I *could* have won (is that just me, or do those Pelagian marines anything to avoid throwing their damned javelins?^^). But it shows that 36 trolls (+general) can still crush a good deal of troops. Over 900 in this example (note, that both factions were balanced cost-wise).

[King Kong]

This is getting sooo ridiculous!

@marceror
What does DG's work have to do with changing unit stats?? He never even touched the units stats.

@Mithrandir
If you are so nitpicking maybe I should also forbid every unit stats modification, instead PB's?
Besides, the idea was Tsarsies' but I wrote the complete script myself. My flat-mate, who is a programmer, even wrote me a progaram only to modify the garrison script.


Anyway, I'm off here, anyone can do what you want and if your you can read and understand my and DG's announcements you will have no problems. Actually this shouldn't be too hard to understand.

[marceror]

Here are some of the excerpts from the conversation I reference. Unless you remove DG's models/textures (or obtain his permission) he does not want you modding any part of a the game.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To make sure I understand where you're coming from, it sounds like any unofficial mod, whether it touches your work or not, needs to have your permission to include Rhun. Or more to the point, let's say someone wants to create a mod that changes the stats in the edu... if someone doesn't get your permission, are you expecting that Rhun would be removed from the mod altogether?

That's what the above seems to indicate, but perhaps this isn't actually what you mean. Your later post about this only applying to "models and textures" seems to possibly indicate otherwise.

I regularly modify my edu, and could potentially share it with others, and I want to know if he's looking for me to ask permission before I do either of those things. His orignal post (which I quoted earlier) seems to indicate that he does, but his subsequent posts seem to indicate that he's really concerned with someone modifying "his" work (i.e. the models and skins).

Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat
The textures and models found in Third Age: Total War used for the Easterling faction are the intellectual property of their creator DisgruntledGoat. These models and textures were created for the sole use of the Third Age mod and specifically for the official development team and King Kong. As their creator I have the final say in which way they may be used and released.

To maintain the integrity of the work, as is a fundemental right given to any creator of intellectual property, I am forbiding their use in any mod other than the official TATW release. This means sub mods for TATW and other mods not in the LotR genre may not use the material unless permission is expressly given by their creator, DisgruntledGoat.

The TWC recognizes the rights of the modders to protect their modding materials and will enforce the rules of intellectual property rights. Any mods that are posted for public consumption that contains my textures OR models that did not have my written permission will be reported to the administration.

Regards,

DisgruntledGoat

Can a mod please sticky this.

Please read the bolded parts. That will explain everything for you.

I had read your original post completely, and understood it. It was your later posts that got me a little off track, and I just wanted to reconcile things. The message here is, "when in doubt, refer to the original post."

Got it. Thx.

At this point DG repped me privately, seemingly indicating that I had interpreted his meaning correctly. Later in the post I summarized him again, and he made this reply:

I don't understand why some people need so much clarification. + rep for you for actually understanding this, frankly very simple, situation.

EDIT: @King Kong -- I'm not the person to answer that question. I'm just clarifying his stance. I won't be posting any public EDUs (without permission) to respect his request. My message to the original poster was mostly meant to be "cute" but it somehow turned into a dialogue of sorts....

Oh well, I think I'm done on this one also.

[Mithrandir]

@Mithrandir
If you are so nitpicking maybe I should also forbid every unit stats modification, instead PB's?
Besides, the idea was Tsarsies' but I wrote the complete script myself. My flat-mate, who is a programmer, even wrote me a progaram only to modify the garrison script.

I assure you, it has nothing to do with nitpicking. I recall you posting that you had added the "garrison script by Tsarsies", so I just wanted to be clear on who actually wrote the script.

[MadTiest]

Marceror, I'm pretty sure you are misunderstanding DG. If you release an EDU file your mod does not contain DG's textures and models. DG has clearly stated that the rules only apply to his models and textures. When DG repped you he misunderstood you when thinking you understood him, when in fact, you did not.

This whole mess is making baby Jesus cry.

[King Kong]

@Mith
I told you that I wrote the script. Besides how often have you told in your name "we" have made it like that, "we" have made it like this and you have actually never done anything??
Slowly I'm getting really angry and if people don't want or can't get what I and DG are saying I will have to think about to shut this whole sub-forum down.


@MadTiest
Thanks. you seem to be the only one who really understands.

[JonSnow]

I fail to see why everyones so annoyed that kk and dg are putting up some restrictions... a lot of mods dont even allow submods so we are lucky.

[grinder]

And I am the one responsible for this mess... I feel realy great right now.

[Mithrandir]

I told you that I wrote the script.

Okay, I must have missed or forgotten about that. Sorry...

Besides how often have you told in your name "we" have made it like that, "we" have made it like this and you have actually never done anything. Slowly I'm really getting really angry and if people dpon't want to get what I and DG are saying I will have to think about o shut this whole sub-forum down.

I've used "we" as a general term for "the devs", what's wrong with that? If you didn't like that, you should have told me. The credits are pretty clear, nobody is going to think I've done modelling, for example. No reason to get hostile and shut the subforum down, I just forgot one of your old posts. I'm not a machine, you can't expect me to remember everything.

[Hargrimm]

@marceror Umm... how does that indicate that this mod needs permission. DG just referred you to his original post, with the parts about my textures OR models emphasized, which seems to me that he is actually saying you're wrong. As I interpret it, and I don't think it's that complicated, only if the files that the user would download (in this case just the EDU) contain any TEXTURES OR MODELS derived from DG's, then they need permission. Otherwise, it's none of his concern. How did you assume otherwise from what he showed you?