Announcement Concerning Textures and Models of TATW

[DisgruntledGoat]

well maby theres just 3 guys trying to make submods with your work in it...

How many mods are even doing something with KK artistic work. I count 2. So..... where is the massive amounts of pms we are going to encounter that will be such a pain in the ass for us?

You guys are just so freaking annoying. I've literally had enough with this community.

[AmiR TimuR]

Is that why I have received a grant total of 3 pm requests. Clearly people are just CLAMORING about trying to make sub mods with our artistic works....

I think people do not touch Rhun so much. I just know one mod that wants to add some units to Rhun.

KK surely will recieve more PMs.

Luckily lots of people are not able to do modelling and skinning

good luck for your future works

[marceror]

well maby theres just 3 guys trying to make submods with your work in it...

How many mods are even doing something with KK artistic work. I count 2. So..... where is the massive amounts of pms we are going to encounter that will be such a pain in the ass for us?

You guys are just so freaking annoying. I've literally had enough with this community.

How about this. If you see a comment that annoys you, like the above, why don't you ignore it and move on? I saw your post (the one that was removed a couple of days ago) and you're clearly not in the appropriate state of mind to interact with the community right now. And the more you do, it would seem, the more frustrated you get. So why keep torturing yourself?

Just update your annoucement to let folks know you won't be granting permission to include your work in mods. Take a breath. And henceforth, focus on the stuff you enjoy and are good at. I really think that's your most productive option at this point.

Just my 2 cents. Just trying to help, a bit. (somebody needs to)

[Baron Samedi]

How about this. If you see a comment that annoys you, like the above, why don't you ignore it and move on? I saw your post (the one that was removed a couple of days ago) and you're clearly not in the appropriate state of mind to interact with the community right now. And the more you do, it would seem, the more frustrated you get. So why keep torturing yourself?

Just update your annoucement to let folks know you won't be granting permission to include your work in mods. Take a breath. And henceforth, focus on the stuff you enjoy and are good at. I really think that's your most productive option at this point.

Just my 2 cents. Just trying to help, a bit. (somebody needs to)

Very good post (+rep). Although I am not a modder, I understand that the original modders and skinners of TATW have certain rights on this site and can therefore claim them accordingly. This fact might not be appreciated or somewhat understood by other users/modders, still they have to acknowledge them. It's really not hard to ask permission and give credits to the right people for matters like this. I also believe some people need to count to 10 before they post and negatively react on each other. It prevents people from saying something they might regret in the future. Imo this thread could be closed right after the announcement by KK in the first post.

[Achilla]

Nothing better than making a stickied announcement about not allowing something and then discussing what has already been decided and entering a flame war to have a pretext or possibly reason to restrict usage of own material even more? Sounds like that.

You know what, close this topic already and don't behave like affronted little girls who have been cheated on by their boyfriends. By coming here and posting aggressive replies to even more aggressive and stupid posts you only bring yourselves down to lower level.

What's so wrong with just announcing something once and stopping discussing the obvious already, people?

[Razor]

Thats wholly untrue. My work for instance is created from scratch using a graphics tablet and a grand total of 2 digital photos (I should add that those digital photos are of a piece of white cloth and Indian animal skin drum). I can't speak for the others however.

EDIT
Thats it. Adding to the announcement for my work. I'm damn tired of this pain in the ass from people, its not even like there were any REAL restrictions it was just being asked so there could be some common decency that TWC is so use to. Here is my final word on this matter. I'm not allowing anyone, anytime to use any of my material. Its for peoples personal use only and was meant to be used for TATW ONLY, i.e. for the use of King Kong. Like Broken Cresent I wish for my work not to be used in any sub mods or other mods. Don't bother asking me permission or sending me pms. Thats it, no body gets anything.

I didn't specifically mean you DisgruntledGoat. I was under the impression that the Uruks and the Orcs were in fact made from pictures/photos and reworked.
Anyway I wasn't accusing anyone or making bad names to someone for using digital photos. I'm just saying these things happen everywhere all the time, and technically speaking they'd then be using work from other people (heavily edited or not).
The problem is that if that's the case, whose work is it after a lot of work and editing? Is it of the photographer's? The 2d artist's? Or both?


Btw, why raising such a nasty tone to the community and why such harsh measures? I'm sortof shocked... Relax man...

If I had to make a submod without your work I'd remake all of the models and textures, make it used freely with a mention of my name in the credits.
Right now you're making your hard work too exclusive and risk it being for nothing when other mods/submods start to appear who use different models and textures instead. Do think about it.

For anything that's not almost entirely flat, trying to turn a digital picture (assuming you even find a fairly symmetric one that doesn't suck) into a texture for a model is a huge pain, to the point where you might as well just do it from scratch and get a higher res texture to boot. DG said he didn't copy over digital photos and I highly doubt most of the rest of the team did judging by the textures I see on the models.

Graphics tablets seem super awesome...until I try to use them and fail hard.

I'm having fairly little problems turning photos into a useable texture. There are restrictions of course and you have to make sure the picture is good enough for you to work on. Sometimes it's trial and error.

[Oddball_E8]

How many mods are even doing something with KK artistic work. I count 2. So..... where is the massive amounts of pms we are going to encounter that will be such a pain in the ass for us?

You guys are just so freaking annoying. I've literally had enough with this community.

well considering the fact that KK wants me to ask for permission to use his nazgul and black numenorians in the Dismounted Nazgul Bodyguard mod i was working on (even tho im not actually "using" the models, per say, im just dismounting them) i think he could get more than a few PM's.

the problem here (for me at least) is that there seems to be no firm line of when you need to PM someone to ask for permission.

take my tiny little mod for example.
all it did was change the Black Numenorian bodyguard unit so it didnt ride horses any more (and changed some values for the troop itself).
and yet this is something that KK consideres that i need to ask permission to do since he made the Nazgul and Black Numenorian models...
even tho i havent changed or modified neither the model or the texture.
I changed a piece of code... thats it...

To me that sais that anyone that wants to do anything to any part of this mod will have to PM someone to ask for permission.

now i know you dont argue that way... your lines are pretty set.
change a model or a texture that youve done and you want them to ask permission first.
No problem.

But its not very clear where the line goes for anything else.
so if someone changes something that ISNT your textures or your models, theyre gonna have to ask someone for permission... even if its a piece of code.

EDIT: and considering the ammount of copyright protected material in this mod, noone should have to ask anyone for permission before the devs ask peter jackson and new line cinema for permisson. (im talking about the music, the videos, the portrait faces, the cities and all that stuff wich is right out of the movies)
Yes, its easy to feel ripped off when someone just re-colours your texture that youve worked hours and hours on end with and then proclaims it as "better" but dont forget that none of you guys asked the composers and art directors or anyone involved with the film for permisson to use their material... so if youre gonna get all anal about who has to ask who about permission, you should compose your own music, make your own cut-scenes and create your own portraits, unit looks (im talking iconic look of armors like the gondorians and rohan and all the other factions that had units in the movies that you guys have now reproduced in this mod) and all that stuff or simply just give new line cinema a call... im sure they'll let you use all their stuff for free...

you do that, and ill start asking for permission to make a submod that dismounts a single unit...

[JonSnow]

While dg's wording might be a tad overly angry he's hardly the first modder to not let others use his work. BC doesn't allow submods (like he mentioned), EB rarely lets others use their work among a host of other mods. Indeed, SS and TATW are rare indeed that they have so many submods. So seriously, instead of complaining about it just be thankful that you're allowed to give and recieve any submods whatsoever. And by the way, the copyrights argument isn't valid, as I said elsewhere modders deal in respect. DG makes no money for slaving over his models and textures, and he didn't really do it for himself either I wouldn't doubt. He did it for the community, and perhaps for himself at least as far as pride at a great accomplishment goes. Now he's becoming disillusioned with this community that continues to rant and argue about how he should allow everyone to work on his units... it's pitiful in my opinion. It's sad that you guys think you can demand anything of him when he undoubtedly spent many HOURS of his time working on various models and textures so your experience would be the best possible. He's not asking much, just DON'T change or use his models and textures without permission granted... is that really so difficult? I'm really astonished that so much badgering is taking place, we (yes we, me aswell I will admit) do not deserve this mod that they've worked so hard to bring to fruition. If I were KK I would seriously consider just shutting it down, I'd be disheartened in all honesty. Even those who constantly say how great the work is still weed in a few comments about how more should be done here or there. Do you not think the team realizes, much better than you infact, what needs to be done? Do you not think that they, more than anyone else, is pained by imperfection where it is found? They are artists, not common slaves that you can order about, and they need to be treated as such. I myself have ragged on both KK and PB in the past, and despite my apology of two days ago I continue to say things I should not. However, I do believe this needed to be said and I do not think I will regret it...
Sorry for the long winded post...

Sincerely,
JonSnow

[Deadmanwalking]

Appreciate the work, respect the artist - that way they'll keep producing the same high quality stuff they have been instead of spending time on here getting frustrated by it all... and calling it quits on account of that.

[Oddball_E8]

@JonSnow: well I guess we mere mortals should just shut up and appreciate the work the godly devs have done. come on... if you create a mod and release it to the public youre gonna get feedback... good and bad... but right now it is starting to sound more like a shut up and sit down situation where you cannot give your oppinion on the mod unless it falls in line with the devs oppinion...

[Jaguar6]

Well I for one am glad that Third Age allows sub mods, and as it has been pointed out already many mods don't. I think we should all just be glad that Third Age will let us modify their units, just by simply sending them a pm But Oddball_E8 does have a point.

Anyways, I have sent all the texturers/modelers pms asking for permission to use their work for my submod. Though not all of them have responded yet, all but one of the ones who have have given me permission.

[alreadyded]

I would be fine with someone improving upon my work. Or even just messing around with it while learning what they are doing, as is often the case. First of all because they are taking over the work for me and I can still reap all the benefits without all the time spent on trial and error testing, and menial programming, and 3d work (kinda fun). But also because it is not like either of us could sell it for money, or women, or things that can be smoked, so I really have nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain... from this game.

I understand why some people would want credit for any work they did, but I fail to see why you wouldn't want to allow anyone to use your work to make something new. When I do anything in life I use all the knowledge and experience which I gained from other people's endeavors (socialization). We call it a society, or community, where knowledge is passed along for all to gain.

[OSDEA7]

Why can't people just respect the creators wishes and leave this matter alone.Ask permission to do your submods before you even start.Or if you do keep it to yoursellves on a personal basis.If they do not give permission for public use or remodification,then accept it.If you do not like the decission then keep your changes out of the public and do it for personal use or go do your own mod.It's like being at a job where you did all the work to make a company rich but the guy above got all the credit.I can't believe the way everyone was dying for this mod to come out and now it's out they just want to revamp it.I'm sure over time KK and the other mod creators will listen to changes for this mod and maybe accept some of them.But it's their choice.Give Respect.


Respect their wishes!!!!!!!

[Ecthelyon]

I write this a minute ago:

Third Age is the best mod ever in the whole universe and beyond. But we all know that nobody has created ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, no region, map, name, character, story or whatever. Moreover, any human creation is influenced by the knowledge of mankind throughout history, ergo, this philosophical discussion is beyond this forum and, of course, this mod.

Greetings

Ruben, from Argentina

Anyway, long live to TA Team

[OSDEA7]

@JonSnow: well I guess we mere mortals should just shut up and appreciate the work the godly devs have done. come on... if you create a mod and release it to the public youre gonna get feedback... good and bad... but right now it is starting to sound more like a shut up and sit down situation where you cannot give your oppinion on the mod unless it falls in line with the devs oppinion...

You are totally unreasonable.Go do your own mod.If you want to shair it out for any kind of revamp that would be your decission.Don't use someone elses work and abuse it any way you like.
These guys gave up alot of time and effort to shair with the public and you won't honor that they want it secure.UNREASONABLE.

How many mods are even doing something with KK artistic work. I count 2. So..... where is the massive amounts of pms we are going to encounter that will be such a pain in the ass for us?

You guys are just so freaking annoying. I've literally had enough with this community.

It's not all of us.I'm sure there a quite a few that respect your wishes.I included.

[Krechet(SiCh)]

Official note from Shredder: He allow you to use his models and textures in submods. With mention in credits of cause

But if team decide to include remade by someone else models in official patch or if someone plan to use his work in another mod - permission should be taken

[jimkatalanos]

Calm down people, ok? No more flame wars.

[Principe Alessandro]

You modders are going to become as SEGA-CA

PLEASE don't delete this isn't mean to offend anybody.

[Achilla]

Close the thread already ... seriously, what's the point of discussing the facts? You don't discuss the facts, you acknowledge them or pay the price for your ignorance.

[King Kong]

sigh... It's really sad to see that some people just don't respect our work and our wish to ask for permission if you want to change it.
Is it really so hard for you to write us a single pm and ask for permission?

I'm tired to read these negative comments, so if you want to change our models, you know what to do.

Thread closed.