Drummers or drummerboys?

**KASCII** · May 08, 2009, 11:10 PM

I couldn't find where anyone dicussed this. But I came across this painting on wikipedia that reminded me that boys used to be the drummers in millitary units. But all the drummers I've seen so far in ETW appear to be adult men. Have any mods addressed this?

**Metzgershund** · May 09, 2009, 01:16 AM

NOT THE CHILDREN!

**Chevalier IX** · May 09, 2009, 01:23 AM

this has not been addressed as of yet,but i am sure it will be touched upon eventually.I am rather sure CA was aware of this fact as well but chose instead to avoid the backlash from concerned individuals upon the subject of placing children in harms way as ell as the reputation of children being gunned down upon the field by an unlucky barrage.These are the facts of war but it seems that many who choose to indulge in the simulation of such as a past time choose to skim over the more unsavory events therin and instead focus upon the pompous,romantic and epic,which is well and good unto iself,but it lacks a certain visceral quality to it all.I suppose that is why the wonderful art of modding was born

**KASCII** · May 09, 2009, 02:37 AM

I couldn't agree more Chevalier IX. I can see the dilemma CA would have been in had they reflected this practice. For the sake of historical accuracy, and the imprtance of not omitting this fact, and an important fact it was, I look forward to the mods that address it.

**musketoon1988** · May 09, 2009, 08:41 AM

it is a myth that most drummers were boys - in fact often they were experienced men highly regarded amongst their peers. I can't speak for the Napoleonic Wars but in the 18th century drummer boys just weren't the norm. Source: Chris Duffy - Art of War in the Age of Reason. Of course there were boys following the army - sons of soldiers, tag alongs etc who would do tasks for the soldiers for a bit of food or pay

**jarnomiedema** · May 09, 2009, 08:44 AM

Interestingly, in that picture you posted, my first impression of the drummers was that they didn't look like boys at all. Compare their respective size with that of the other soldiers and I'd say they look pretty similar. If anything, I suppose the boy is indeed, as musketoon1988 said, one of the many children that followed the army's movements with their mothers, while their fathers went off to war..

**Rsty Bloodnok** · May 09, 2009, 08:58 AM

While Chevalier has made a sound and politically correct point, I would have thought the main problem for mods is that there is no text file to control the scale of a model and therefore a new model would have to be made of the right size (or the old one would just be rescaled in the model tools). As far as I am aware there have been no tools released recently that allow the modification of unit models unless they would be fan made.

In terms of the modding community I am unsure if they come under the juristiction of such laws that rate programs (the blood mod on its own would have caused problems).

Oh and Jarnomiedema, the height of the average soldier was probably just above the cutoff limit (5'?), at most 5'4" and with the fact that most of the men would have come from densely populated areas, with little or no sustenence then their growth would have been stunted resulting with many 12-14 yr olds being almost the height of a grown man.

**Sweatydon** · May 09, 2009, 09:58 AM

I did re-enactment as a drummer boy in the napoleonic period so I feel qualified to add my 2 cents. It is not the case that the drummers were exclusively boys, they were often men but reason for the public image of the drummer Boy is that they often went round with the recruting parties. However there certianly were drummer boys on the battlefield although they would spend a few years before hand obviosuly learning the drum as well as going out on to the field to find items of use, ie a spare cartrdige pouch or gun etc NOT LOOTING this would also acclimatise them to the horrors of battle and let them know what they were in for from what ive heard they would start going into battle aged 14/15 up wards.

TBH i think it is perhaps best to leave the drummers as men as Chevalier rightly points out there would be a backlash.

**killerrabbit** · May 09, 2009, 03:48 PM

well, dead children on the field wouldn't look really nice would it?

**KASCII** · May 09, 2009, 07:51 PM

I do suspect that the enlisting of young men as drummers this was reasonably common. Also, I don't think drummers took up important firing line positions at the front of the lines. They were probably in-back once the firing ranks were formed.

http://www.genealogyforum.com/gfaol/...ry/Drummer.htm

Does anyone have any information on what a ratio of adult:youth as drummers might have been?

Some interesting photos:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cwmhtml/cwmgallery06.html

**Sweatydon** · May 10, 2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by KASCII

I do suspect that the enlisting of young men as drummers this was reasonably common. Also, I don't think drummers took up important firing line positions at the front of the lines. They were probably in-back once the firing ranks were formed.

http://www.genealogyforum.com/gfaol/...ry/Drummer.htm

Does anyone have any information on what a ratio of adult:youth as drummers might have been?

Some interesting photos:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cwmhtml/cwmgallery06.html

I rember hearing that at first the drummers were in the front of the line (as in ETW) but eventualy this was changed so the drummers were normally just behind the firing line as the officer in charge still had to hear the commands. (this would also give cover to Drummers who were the frist target for sharpshooters, as if the drummer was killed that unit would struggle to receive orders and interact with the rest of the army.) I have no idea what a good ratio would be but considering most of the lads would be at a fairly mature age when they went into battle anyway it would probably be hard to find an accurate one.