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Thread: Nominate New Units

  1. #1

    Default Nominate New Units

    Thread closed. Post suggestions in the Feedback thread

    Hi folks,

    Are there units that you feel should be represented? They must be historical, there must be a reasonable gameplay need for them, and they will need to be balanced with other units and costs. From Johan217:
    Quote Originally Posted by Johan217 View Post
    OK then: something for you all to think about during the weekend:
    Nominate a few candidates for AOR units. For example, if you believe (and have evidence) that Bavaria was known in the 18th century for its outstanding cavalry, we could have these recruitable by all nations that conquer Bavaria. I could easily make AOR cavalry for every minor nation (in fact I already have ), but I think it's better to limit them to just a few territories. Ideally, I would like to have 1 special version of each unit class (grenadier, dragoon, artillery...).

    Artillery... Corsica?
    Suggested units - please comment if you think they are inappropriate!

    - Potsdam Grenadiers (West Prussia)
    - Italian Carabiniers (Italian States)
    - Freikorps Cavalry (Bavaria, Württemberg)
    - Freikorps Light Infantry/Jäger (Saxony)
    - Hannoverian Grenadiers/Guards (?)
    - Hessian Mounted Jäger (Westphalia)
    - Portuguese Light Infantry
    - Polish Uhlans
    - Swedish Horse Artillery (since they were among the first to adopt this tactic)
    - Catalonian Volunteers (light infantry)
    - Circassian Cavalry (Caucasus)
    - Circassian Infantry (Caucasus)
    - Armenian Auxiliaries (Ottomans)
    - Bosnian Auxiliaries (Ottomans)
    - Cairo Janissaries (Ottomans)
    - ... (units outside Europe)
    Last edited by Johan217; October 01, 2009 at 05:41 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Scottish and Swedish expatriate infantry were used by the United Provinces in the War of Spanish Succession, and the Prussian should have access to Hessian infantry. Also, Hessian Cavalry should be added, as Hessian Cavalry were used by the British and Prussians during the American Revolution.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Pennsylvania Riflemen... You could actually make a line and a skirmish unit based on the article below.

    http://www.myrevolutionarywar.com/states/pa-01.htm


    “Today, the general will of all nations is calling for fundamental change... The prerequisite to this change is a change in goals, intentions, and directions. If tyrannical goals are repackaged in an attractive and deceptive package and imposed on nations again, the people, awakened, will stand up against them.”
    Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

    Truth is treason in the Empire of Lies.
    Ron Paul


  4. #4

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    hi are you also thinking about retextureing the units to? i thought maybe bavaria could use some more unique units. here is a link of different infantrie regiments from bavaria during the 7 years war.
    http://www.figuren-modellbau.de/baye...6-bavaria.html
    just take a look.
    i think it would be better if every nation would have their own units.

  5. #5
    Lord Zimoa's Avatar Slitherine Games
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    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Marines, somewhat smaller in size and expensive, but good attack and assault, recruitable at some admiralty level, maybe only in your capitol for the seafaring nations like GB, France, UP, Spain, Sweden, US...

  6. #6

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zimoa of Flanders View Post
    Marines, somewhat smaller in size and expensive, but good attack and assault, recruitable at some admiralty level, maybe only in your capitol for the seafaring nations like GB, France, UP, Spain, Sweden, US...
    I like the idea of Marines, in principle, but how often were they used in the line of battle? I would expect they would only be used for shore raids \ cutting out, and the like, which aren't represented in ETW.

    Does anyone have any information on Marines in the line of battle?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Quote Originally Posted by sage2 View Post
    I like the idea of Marines, in principle, but how often were they used in the line of battle? I would expect they would only be used for shore raids \ cutting out, and the like, which aren't represented in ETW.

    Does anyone have any information on Marines in the line of battle?

    After a quick glance at wikipedia (history of the Royal Marines), they were used originally as a land force commanded by the Royal Navy. However over time they became more and more like line infatry (in fact in 1702 three regiment of marines were transfered to the line to become the 30th, 31st and 32nd foot.)

    During the 1700's they wore red coats and breeches with facings dependant on the commanding officers choice.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Recruitment of Marines would have to be very small.

    IIRC, the total number of Marines in British service holvered around roughly 8-15,000 for the whole century and almost all were scattered serving on ships.

    Also a note I'm sure you already know. The British Marines weren't given the "Royal" to their until the early 19th Century, largely for helping with the muntinies of the past years.

    That was detrimental as before, the rest of the ships crew looked on the Marines as fellow comrades and working men (A Marines job was the worst on a ship)even if they were "lazy" while with the Royal, they were looked on as seperate and more in line with the officers if things on the ship went south.

    By lazy, sailors looked on the tasks they did as cushy.

    To them, all the Marines seemed to do was stand around and maybe drill during the day as they worked hard to keep the ship running. What they didn't realize was that this was a hell in itself as they did nothing and were constantly bored and required to stand erect and straight backed all day guarding doorways and other mundane things.

    Then in combat, if they were unlucky not to be assigned to help with a gun below deck, they all had to stand in line on the flanks of the poopdeck as the ship went into combat.

    There, behind no cover besides each other (but unlike on land, there would be only some 15 to 30 others to hide behind), they'd stand as the ship entered combat and would remain, now firing their guns at anyone on the enemies deck. They would remain only allowed to kneel until they were required below decks, the ship was boarded, the ship surrendered, or the battle was one.

    Naturally, their casualties were always the highest on a warship and all this was relected in thier pay which was always lower than a seamen, NCO or officer of equivalent rank in the Navy.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Quote Originally Posted by Beastro View Post
    Recruitment of Marines would have to be very small.

    IIRC, the total number of Marines in British service holvered around roughly 8-15,000 for the whole century and almost all were scattered serving on ships.

    Also a note I'm sure you already know. The British Marines weren't given the "Royal" to their until the early 19th Century, largely for helping with the muntinies of the past years.

    That was detrimental as before, the rest of the ships crew looked on the Marines as fellow comrades and working men (A Marines job was the worst on a ship)even if they were "lazy" while with the Royal, they were looked on as seperate and more in line with the officers if things on the ship went south.

    By lazy, sailors looked on the tasks they did as cushy.

    To them, all the Marines seemed to do was stand around and maybe drill during the day as they worked hard to keep the ship running. What they didn't realize was that this was a hell in itself as they did nothing and were constantly bored and required to stand erect and straight backed all day guarding doorways and other mundane things.

    Then in combat, if they were unlucky not to be assigned to help with a gun below deck, they all had to stand in line on the flanks of the poopdeck as the ship went into combat.

    There, behind no cover besides each other (but unlike on land, there would be only some 15 to 30 others to hide behind), they'd stand as the ship entered combat and would remain, now firing their guns at anyone on the enemies deck. They would remain only allowed to kneel until they were required below decks, the ship was boarded, the ship surrendered, or the battle was one.

    Naturally, their casualties were always the highest on a warship and all this was relected in thier pay which was always lower than a seamen, NCO or officer of equivalent rank in the Navy.
    Not to be a pain but do you have any sources that I can have a look at regarding the british marines? The source I used as the history of the royal marines, and so covers the time before they gained the Royal title. Although originally they were created to, as you say, fight on board ships in addition to the sailors, after a while (around the time period that the game covers) they became increasinly used in land battles and not just for ship warfare or naval landings.

    If a marines unit were to be created it would have to be a smaller sized (perhaps around 60 men as opposed to a line infantry unit of 80), have superior stats in melee combat to represent their ability for fighting in boarding actions etc, be more expensive to recruit and have a 3 turn recruitment time to take into account their longer training and have a unit cap of around 8. As far as gameplay goes, they should be an elite unit designed to give one's army an edge in melee. Perhaps give them the skill "rallies nearby allies).

    Unfortunatly this type of unit would be difficult to make as each country had their own varient. The major european powers had their own version and even the ottomans had marines.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    I was wondering if you are asking for bigger nation units or smaller nation units? I personally am a fan of Bavaria and the smaller German states.


    How about the Kleist'sches Freikorps from 1760 they have nice green uniforms with infantry and cavalry
    here is a link http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/ta...knoe01_07.html


    Another Freikorps unit are the De le Noble'sches Freicorps
    http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/ta...knoe02_37.html


    Anyways I hope the links work


    Good luck.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Probably smaller, actually. Regarding the two below, where were they raised, and did have any distinguishing characterics in battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer22 View Post
    I was wondering if you are asking for bigger nation units or smaller nation units? I personally am a fan of Bavaria and the smaller German states.


    How about the Kleist'sches Freikorps from 1760 they have nice green uniforms with infantry and cavalry
    here is a link http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/ta...knoe01_07.html


    Another Freikorps unit are the De le Noble'sches Freicorps
    http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/ta...knoe02_37.html


    Anyways I hope the links work


    Good luck.

  12. #12
    Johan217's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer22 View Post
    I was wondering if you are asking for bigger nation units or smaller nation units? I personally am a fan of Bavaria and the smaller German states.
    Were especially looking for the smaller nations. We're not planning to make the entire unit roster available for AOR recruitment, but in some regions we would like to have another unit available in addition to the line infantry.

    Actually, naming these units "Freikorps" (if recruited in Germany) may be an interesting idea
    Rock 'n' roll is the only religion that will never let you down

  13. #13

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    From Wikipedia got this: The first freikorps were recruited by Frederick II of Prussia in the eighteenth century during the Seven Years' W. They were volunteers who fought against internal and external enemies. I remember reading though during the Napoleonic Wars Freikcoprs were basically small little armies of most likely brigade size level amount of infantry and few cavarly squadrons and a battery or 2 of cannons. They were used to get behind lines and attack lines of communication and supply and used in battle as well. However, pretty sure that freikcorps were created in almost every German state and used as a militia type unit, but it seems they were better trained and organized.

    Looking online I found a book by Bruce Bassett-Powel called Freikorps of the Seven Years War and the description he gives is... Although the Prussian army was mostly made up of regulars, a large number of volunteers, soldiers of fortune and freebooters were assembled into units by, usually wealthy, soldiers of fortune who offered their services to the Prussian King. These units were known as Freikorps and proved to be of limited value militarily. However, they served as line of communications troops, scouts and, more often than not, harassing forces who put the fear of God into stragglers and the civilian population. Some of these units even changed sides and both Austria and France would employ their own Free corps or Legions. Just a little more info I found on Freikorps (Legions), small military detachments, made up of volunteers and led by partisans, supported the operations of the army by raids behind enemy lines. Frederick the Great used Freikorps during the Seven Years' War (Freiregimenter, Freibataillone), who fought alongside hussars in the little war against the Austrians. They recruited primarily among foreigners, prisoners of war, and deserters. Unlike regular troops, Freikorps were permitted to occupy houses and villages etc. It seems the Prussian Army regular line troops hated them since they robbed them and were looters and Frederick liked to use them as front line assault troops in set piece battles to be used as cannon fodder to protect his better line troops. So they could be used as raiders on independet missions, but if used in the army they make the morale of the army drop somehow if that is even possible. They would def have lower morale than line regiments.

    The French army employed similar corps of volunteers and legions, like the Chasseurs de Fischer or Volontaires Étrangers de Clermont-Prince, sometimes composed of infantry, cavalry and artillery, during the War of Austrian Succession and the Seven Years' War.
    General Casimir Pulaski and Colonel Charles Armand Tuffin, marquis de la Rouërie, raised and commanded legions during the American Revolutionary war. Pulaski Legion was very strong as his cavalry squadrons were some of the better led troops who fought in the south and he has a town named after him where i live haha.

    So I guess in the game they could be used as garrison troops or scouting parties so used as smaller troop types. I just found it interesting because they were small little armies that consisted of infantry,cavalry, and arty. Hope this helps and sorry for the long post
    Last edited by Boomer22; May 11, 2009 at 09:06 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    I'm thinking that could be represented as low morale and low upkeep (since they 'pay for themselves' via "foraging"). They would have inferior stats to regular line troops, but better than the militia, aka 'Substandard' types of line troops. I think they would probably be allowed the 'rank fire' evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer22 View Post
    From Wikipedia got this: The first freikorps were recruited by Frederick II of Prussia in the eighteenth century during the Seven Years' W. They were volunteers who fought against internal and external enemies. I remember reading though during the Napoleonic Wars Freikcoprs were basically small little armies of most likely brigade size level amount of infantry and few cavarly squadrons and a battery or 2 of cannons. They were used to get behind lines and attack lines of communication and supply and used in battle as well. However, pretty sure that freikcorps were created in almost every German state and used as a militia type unit, but it seems they were better trained and organized.

    Looking online I found a book by Bruce Bassett-Powel called Freikorps of the Seven Years War and the description he gives is... Although the Prussian army was mostly made up of regulars, a large number of volunteers, soldiers of fortune and freebooters were assembled into units by, usually wealthy, soldiers of fortune who offered their services to the Prussian King. These units were known as Freikorps and proved to be of limited value militarily. However, they served as line of communications troops, scouts and, more often than not, harassing forces who put the fear of God into stragglers and the civilian population. Some of these units even changed sides and both Austria and France would employ their own Free corps or Legions. Just a little more info I found on Freikorps (Legions), small military detachments, made up of volunteers and led by partisans, supported the operations of the army by raids behind enemy lines. Frederick the Great used Freikorps during the Seven Years' War (Freiregimenter, Freibataillone), who fought alongside hussars in the little war against the Austrians. They recruited primarily among foreigners, prisoners of war, and deserters. Unlike regular troops, Freikorps were permitted to occupy houses and villages etc. It seems the Prussian Army regular line troops hated them since they robbed them and were looters and Frederick liked to use them as front line assault troops in set piece battles to be used as cannon fodder to protect his better line troops. So they could be used as raiders on independet missions, but if used in the army they make the morale of the army drop somehow if that is even possible. They would def have lower morale than line regiments.

    The French army employed similar corps of volunteers and legions, like the Chasseurs de Fischer or Volontaires Étrangers de Clermont-Prince, sometimes composed of infantry, cavalry and artillery, during the War of Austrian Succession and the Seven Years' War.
    General Casimir Pulaski and Colonel Charles Armand Tuffin, marquis de la Rouërie, raised and commanded legions during the American Revolutionary war. Pulaski Legion was very strong as his cavalry squadrons were some of the better led troops who fought in the south and he has a town named after him where i live haha.

    So I guess in the game they could be used as garrison troops or scouting parties so used as smaller troop types. I just found it interesting because they were small little armies that consisted of infantry,cavalry, and arty. Hope this helps and sorry for the long post

  15. #15

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Sounds like a good idea they were def raised into units large enough for regiments. So I think they should have the close order line formations and not as skirmishers. Basically they would be considered a better trained militia and at least later on in Nappy Wars were considered the more nationalistic fever pitched troops

    Is there a way to make them move faster on the map but limit the amount of units allowed in a certain army like a small detachment as a raiding/scouting party maybe like 3 or 4 units max?

    Knotel plates are great for uniforms of small units from Seven Years War to 1900's http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/tafeln/knoetel.html

  16. #16

    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer22 View Post
    Sounds like a good idea they were def raised into units large enough for regiments. So I think they should have the close order line formations and not as skirmishers. Basically they would be considered a better trained militia and at least later on in Nappy Wars were considered the more nationalistic fever pitched troops

    Is there a way to make them move faster on the map but limit the amount of units allowed in a certain army like a small detachment as a raiding/scouting party maybe like 3 or 4 units max?

    Knotel plates are great for uniforms of small units from Seven Years War to 1900's http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/tafeln/knoetel.html
    There is no way to limit movement size, but it would easy to give them a larger campaign movement speed to represent 'traveling light', as that is set on a per unit basis now.

  17. #17
    Civis
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    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Serbia, if possible. A playable Serbia would make for an interesting time in the Balkans, stuck between the Ottomans, Austria and Venice, and there is historical precedence. The Serbs were trouble for the Ottomans and Hapsburgs alike, were somewhat autonomous within each empire at various times, and achieved short lived sovereignity at the end of the 18th century.
    edit: I do realise that serbia is not a unit, but thought I'd give it a go.
    Last edited by gromda; May 12, 2009 at 06:32 AM.

  18. #18
    Johan217's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Quote Originally Posted by gromda View Post
    edit: I do realise that serbia is not a unit, but thought I'd give it a go.
    Nice try, but no
    However, the Balkans is a portion of the map that deserves some attention. At the moment the only special unit there are the Pandours. If you happen to have an idea for a Serbian unit, that would be great. I'm guessing it would be a guerilla or light infantry type unit (Hajduk?)
    Rock 'n' roll is the only religion that will never let you down

  19. #19
    ibigscarymonster's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    Non-European units
    In this book I was looking at they mentioned that the Persians/Afghans at this time were using armoured mounted musketeers. It didn't mention whether they dismounted to shoot though. I'm guessing they stayed mounted though because their doctrine was based on mobility. It also mentioned they used small swivel mounted cannons that they put on the back of camels as kind of a mobile artillery. That's probably too hard to mod but maybe horse artillery or horse artillery with camels instead of horses could be used to substitute? I'll try and get more info.

  20. #20
    Chevalier IX's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Nominate New Units

    I am for the polish Uhlans...actually i am for all of them save the potsdam grenadiers,unless you are looking for a what if scenario,or i am not really sure any of them actually saw action to speak of,could be interesting though,especially when the modelling tools reveal themselves so they can be made bigger than the other units

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