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Thread: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.2 RELEASED! Empire 1.3 Compatible

  1. #61
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    I got an idea for the "Western Tribes" (Sioux, Comanche <----(We'll just call it that for now))
    Shotgun cavalry:
    Weapon:Shotgun (we'll just have to make due with the grenzers' gun, for now, or try using a rifle/musket because I'm not sure if anybody could "invent" new weapons)
    The reloading animation would have to be the Ferguson's rifle animation on horse back.
    We'd have to use wayyyy powered-down canister shot for ammo type.
    Or give them limited numbers (Both trainable and the actual unit size) and maybe make them crazy expensive.
    They'd be able to dismount
    Perhaps the eastern tribes (Cherokee and Iroquois), could probalbly have a dismounted version of the unit.
    I don't know really, maybe a stupid idea, but nothing funner than having indians murdering white men with shotguns.

  2. #62

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by jackel2168 View Post
    possibility of making the unit size Darthmod compatible?
    Yes, will do that today. Won't take long .

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    Cool, like the top one, Custer's last stand, right?
    Oh yea, by the way, notice my sig.
    Also, been getting your quotes I think. One about how the starving man eats with wolves and a few others.
    Yes, Custers last stand. Thanks for supporting the mod.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    I got an idea for the "Western Tribes" (Sioux, Comanche <----(We'll just call it that for now))
    Shotgun cavalry:
    Weapon:Shotgun (we'll just have to make due with the grenzers' gun, for now, or try using a rifle/musket because I'm not sure if anybody could "invent" new weapons)
    The reloading animation would have to be the Ferguson's rifle animation on horse back.
    We'd have to use wayyyy powered-down canister shot for ammo type.
    Or give them limited numbers (Both trainable and the actual unit size) and maybe make them crazy expensive.
    They'd be able to dismount
    Perhaps the eastern tribes (Cherokee and Iroquois), could probalbly have a dismounted version of the unit.
    I don't know really, maybe a stupid idea, but nothing funner than having indians murdering white men with shotguns.
    I have actually made a mini-mod which gives shot-gunners to the British, have attached it here if you want to see it (they won't have a name, I haven't got a localisation for them) As for giving shotguns to the Native Americans, that would be sacraficing a bit too much historical accuracy. But I do have to agree with you, shotgunners are very fun!

    (A bit of advertising)

    I have also made a short tutorial on adding new (projectile) weapons here if you want to know how. It is perfectly possible, and very easy.

  3. #63
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Oh, so the Natives didn't have shotguns? I thought they did through raiding and recovering guns from fallen enemies. Hell, if I was an old coot, had a shotgun (which did exist in the Wild West era, maybe not 1700's in the Eastern Tribes' case, but my idea was just to give them a good close-range weapon to aid in fighting back the colonists.), and the Siuox were raiding my town, I'd bring my shotgun, even if I wasn't in the militia.

  4. #64

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    They did have shotguns back then, they were generally called blunderbusses. They were used basically like buck shot, grab as much random crap as you can, put it down the barrel with the powder, fire. Anything in close range was jacked up, has next to no efficiency after about 20 yards I believe, I'll have to check that out. But I know first hand with my mossberg, that anything that you point it at at close range, devastated. The farther away it is, unless you're firing into a large large grouping, will do next to nothing.
    Suicide was against the law. Johnny had wondered why. It meant that if you missed, or the gas ran out, or the rope broke, you could get locked up in prison to show you that life was really very jolly and thoroughly worth living.

  5. #65

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Sorry, I din't know that they had shotguns back then, or anything like shotguns. I will consider it for the next update (not the one coming out today, too close to release), and I will have to do quite a lot of work to make sure they are not completely overpowered.

  6. #66
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by jackel2168 View Post
    They did have shotguns back then, they were generally called blunderbusses. They were used basically like buck shot, grab as much random crap as you can, put it down the barrel with the powder, fire. Anything in close range was jacked up, has next to no efficiency after about 20 yards I believe, I'll have to check that out. But I know first hand with my mossberg, that anything that you point it at at close range, devastated. The farther away it is, unless you're firing into a large large grouping, will do next to nothing.
    No, actually, although the blunderbuss did exist, but as a seperate weapon with a flared muzzle, I'm talking about the gun that sort of resembles a rifle, works sort of the same as a blunderbuss, still used commonly today, the shotgun, which was used in the late 19th century around the same time of the Sioux's attacks.

  7. #67
    LenniX's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    again awsome mod ive been playing on it allot, but is their a way you can add a decent boat for the natives, because i can only make those little pirate/trade ships and as soon as one of my oversea routes gets blocked theirs nothing i can do ):

    Keep up the good work <3 your mod

  8. #68

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Yes, I am going to add a ship eventually. Just not sure what to add (possibly a sloop/brig).

  9. #69

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    What about adding light galley/galley instead?

  10. #70

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    No, actually, although the blunderbuss did exist, but as a seperate weapon with a flared muzzle, I'm talking about the gun that sort of resembles a rifle, works sort of the same as a blunderbuss, still used commonly today, the shotgun, which was used in the late 19th century around the same time of the Sioux's attacks.
    I've heard stories of shotguns had been used in intertribal skirmishes pre-1860. But likely not the 1700's.

  11. #71

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Update released! Wooo!

    Galleys are actually probably a better idea than sloops.

  12. #72

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Just downloading. Ships are not in this update, right?

  13. #73

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.1 RELEASED! 30+ NEW UNITS

    No, sorry. And with it taking about 40 mins to upload, I'm not gonna add it until the next update .

    Quite easy to add by yourself though. Add the line:

    medium_galley | amerind_group

    to the units_to_groupings_military_permissions with the Pack File Manager.

  14. #74

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.1 RELEASED! 30+ NEW UNITS

    Hey Irmo nice mod but I can't play the native americans in custom battles (I am using Darthmod) I loaded it the order you said, any ideas what could cause this.
    (Nevermind I accidentaly had the Regalia flag mod in my data folder) my bad
    Last edited by LatinoPR; May 10, 2009 at 03:37 PM.

  15. #75

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.1 RELEASED! 30+ NEW UNITS

    It won't be Darthmod affecting it - it will be another mod you have (Darthmod doesn't use the factions table, I don't think).

  16. #76

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.1 RELEASED! 30+ NEW UNITS

    (edit)
    Last edited by LatinoPR; May 10, 2009 at 03:35 PM.

  17. #77
    LenniX's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.1 RELEASED! 30+ NEW UNITS

    i have trouble locating :units_to_groupings_military_permissions
    but i'm really noob in this stuff

  18. #78

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.1 RELEASED! 30+ NEW UNITS

    Check in the modding workshop under tools and tutorials. All sorts of stuff there to help you.

  19. #79
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    This seems to be the mod I wished for as soon as I discovered how CA treated the Native Americans - thanks for doing something about their negligence or ignorance!

    I'm with several other TWC members in this thread regarding the difference between the tribes. The eastern (forest) tribes should be relatively well equipped with muskets due to their vicinity to white trading partners, but poorly endowed with horses, because they had little use for them in the forest. The western (plains) tribes should be very poorly equipped with firearms (until late in the game), but almost always mounted, and as such very difficult to deal with for any opponent who ventures out in their domains on foot.

    If you ask me, no Native American nation should be able to produce artillery units, and this for the following reasons. I find it highly unlikely that the Europeans would sell (many) cannons to them or teach them how to construct such weapons (in all my studies of the American Indian, I've only heard once about a case where the Swedes might have helped the Susquehannocks to build their fortifications with towers and some sort of cannon for sweeping the exterior of the palisade in case of an attack), and the opportunities to capture artillery would be very few and far between - too few and far between to have become an important part of the Indians' arsenal. I think that whenever the Indians captured a fort, it was most often through a surprise attack, not by the use of any artillery to breach the walls.

    Horses did not play an important role among the eastern tribes, either, so, for this reason, I would have done away with them completely also for these nations, for the benefit of game variety as well. Instead, the warriors of these tribes would stand out in melee and musket marksmanship on foot. This due to their upbringing and life as hunters and warriors since the earliest days of childhood.

    In contrast, the Plains nations could be completely mounted, with a clear advantage in open terrain, but only a few units dismountable and weaker than average (compared to the eastern warriors) on foot.

    I have also some suggestions about the naming of the Native American units. "Berserkers" is a term that originates in the occasional behaviour of the Vikings, and so completely off target, culturally. Better to use the names of the subgroups of the tribes to distinguish between the different types of units, and add an unique sense of each. In case of the Iroqouis, that could result in an army of "Cayuga Warriors", "Onondaga Warriors", "Oneida Warriors", "Seneca Warriors" and "Mohawk Warriors" (the Tuscarora tribe did not become a proper member of the Iroquois Confederacy until 1722), the first being shooters and the last melee units, for example (I'm not saying that the tribes specialized in this way, but, if I remember right, the Seneca and the Mohawk had the reputation of being the best and most fearsome warriors in this confederacy). For some variety here, one could replace "Warriors" with "Hunters", "Archers", "Warclubs/Warclubmen", "Half-Knives" (signifying young boys who haven't yet earned the status as warriors but still can fight with an utterly fearless eagerness to achieve this status that makes up for their lack of experience) or "False Face Society" (medicinemen wearing freaky wooden masks, although I doubt they partook in war expeditions as such in reality; we might allow ourselves some license in this respect for the purpose of game fun, but that would disregard the sacred value these masks have for the Iroquois themselves today still; however, this could be worked around by making up fantasy masks of similar design with no meaning for anyone) etc.

    For the "Hurons" (who more accurately should ce called the Wyandots), we could have "Arendahronon (Rock) Warriors", "Attignawantan (Bear) Warriors", "Attigneenongnahac/Attiguenongha (Cord) Warriors", "Tahontaenrat/Scanonaerat (Deer) Warriors", and "Ataronchronon Warriors" appearing (the latter comprising of Wenro and Algonkin refugees taken up by the original confederacy of four tribes). The Plains Nation could be understood as the Teton (western prairie) Lakota, and then we would see "Sichángu/Brulé Warriors", "Hunkpapa Warriors", "Miniconjou Warriors", "Oglala Warriors", "Oohenonpa/Two Kettle Warriors", "Itazipcho/San Arcs Warriors", and "Sihasapa/Blackfoot Warriors" in their ranks. But the Lakota also included two more divisions, one eastern forest-dwelling branch called Santee, from which "Mdewakanton Warriors", "Wahpeton Warriors", "Wahpekute Warriors" and "Sisseton Warriors" could spring forth, and a central (prairie) division including "Yankton Warriors" and "Yanktonai Warriors". The Lakota were allied with the Arapaho and the Cheyenne, and if these tribes are allowed into the game, we could face, for instance, the famous "Dog Soldiers" (Hotamétaneo'o) on the battlefield, a warrrior society of the latter tribe.

    If we decide to keep the Pueblo Indians in the game for some reason (but then they would have to have a mix of mounted and non-mounted warriors, neither generally very good compared to the other Indians, since they were more inclined to engage in peaceful activities), then they might be best portrayed according to their many language groups: Tewa, Tiwa, Jemez, Piro, Keres, Zuńi and Hopi. The Cherokee are more difficult to represent in the above way. They were divided into three groups according to dialect and location, but I have yet to find their own names of major subgroups, if they had any. Best way might be to name their different units according to some of their towns and villages, e.g. Echota, Stikayi, Oconee, Ustanali, Tellico etc.

    More could be said about all this, but it'll do for now.

    BTW, regarding the Fog of War encountered with this mod, the following expert advice might be useful:

    Quote Originally Posted by erasmus777 View Post

    1) Open your saved game with the ESF editor. Go to:
    CAMPAIGN_ENV/CAMPAIGN_MODEL/WORLD/FACTION_ARRAY/FACTION_ARRAY

    2) Open the first faction. It should be yours. Click on CAMPAIGN_SHROUD and change the boolean to "false." Save.

    3) Start ETW and load your saved game. The FOW will be gone.
    Edit: Oops, just discovered that this mod has already been updated! My comments may then have become obsolete. Sorry
    Last edited by Demokritos; May 10, 2009 at 09:28 PM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  20. #80

    Default Re: The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    No, actually, although the blunderbuss did exist, but as a seperate weapon with a flared muzzle, I'm talking about the gun that sort of resembles a rifle, works sort of the same as a blunderbuss, still used commonly today, the shotgun, which was used in the late 19th century around the same time of the Sioux's attacks.
    According to Encyclopedia Britannica, "The blunderbuss is a muzzle-loading firearm with a short, large caliber barrel, which is flared at the muzzle, and used with shot. The blunderbuss is an early form of shotgun adapted to military and defensive use." Dragoons actually came from a form of the blunderbuss fitted with a dragon's head as an ornamental decoration. The brown bess was also an early form of shotgun. In addition, buck and ball was a common load for muzzle-loading muskets, and was very commonly used into the early days of the American Civil War. The load consisted of a full caliber round lead ball combined with three buckshot pellets. Perhaps the most famous proponent of the buck and ball loading was George Washington, who encouraged his troops to load their muskets with buck and ball loads during the American Revolution. The buck and ball load was standard issue throughout the Seminole Wars of 1815 - 1845. With the advent of general issue rifled muskets in the American Civil War, the buck and ball loading began to fade from use, though it did see action in the remaining inventory of smoothbore muskets. The buck and ball load has been replaced in current military inventories by standard buckshot loadings in the combat shotgun. The shotgun existed in a devastating form early on and is still a terrifyingly destructive weapon at short range. I would highly recommended putting it in as soon as possible. Maybe even make the dragoons carry blunderbusses.
    Suicide was against the law. Johnny had wondered why. It meant that if you missed, or the gas ran out, or the rope broke, you could get locked up in prison to show you that life was really very jolly and thoroughly worth living.

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