The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.2 RELEASED! Empire 1.3 Compatible

[Edvinsen]

Bump,

One more question, how can I get rid of priests and stuff that comes into my land?

[Irmo]

If you mean enemy priests etc, you can't, its all part of the game. If the native Americans can't get assasins (Idon't think they can), I will do my best to get them assassins.

[ErwinRommel]

Well, i wasn't sure. But once i did what i explained it worked. And yea, it could have been that also

[NativePride]

Excellent mod, but as you said it's not complete and with that I'd like to state a few things. If you don't mind of course!

Firstly, here's something that made me laugh at first, the Cherokee description. Sorry to say, no offense intended, the 16th century is over 200 years later many, *every native american was well aware of what muskets are. Some British traders even chose to live with the Cherokee, making them a direct link to foreign technology.

Secondly, I'll make this easy for me to explain, and easier for you to understand lol. The idea guerilla warfare (called light infantry doctrine in ETW) was implemented after observing how native americans operated during combat. Native americans never fought in lines, and they never fought standing out in the open. Since the light infantry doctrine is the only close thing depicting that. I believe all unit formations should be set that way.

Thirdly, the use of bows began to die during the 17th century, yes I said 17th. They were commonly used as stealth weapons in the 18th century but no more than that, mainly for hunting as you can imagine. The widespread of muskets (fusil was a native american favorite) emerged during the early 18th century due to the fact that native americans regarded it a better weapon to use. Reason why, native americans extremely adept at the use of the bow were just as good at dodging an arrow than firing it. Muskets became extremely popular the moment they realized the speed and velocity of the bullet, just because you can't dodge it lol. Only drawbacks native americans didn't like reloading, and simply the fact that it gave away your position instantly when firing. (Just to add muskets should be in early custom battles)

I take that back in away, I'm not gonna say bows died out, but there use began to become obsolete the moment native americans got there hands on muskets for the reasons I specified already.

Lastly, native americans strived to be effective with muskets and even hunted with them to get better at the use. All I'm basically trying to say here is that there accuracy should be the same as light infantry and such. Who knows maybe even better, doubt I could hit a deer with something like that lol.

Just hoping this can help, looks like a complaint post, I'm sorry lol. Historical accuracy has always been my thing, some of this will help, some of it may not.

P.s. I love the mod already.

[Irmo]

Excellent mod, but as you said it's not complete and with that I'd like to state a few things. If you don't mind of course!

Of course I don't mind - mods thrive on feedback. I know its not complete - the team is working very hard to increase playability, historical accuray and variety. As more things become available for modding, we will do even more. A lot more skins will be released, as well as more units, more buildings, and eventually when possible, more technologies factions and regions.

Firstly, here's something that made me laugh at first, the Cherokee description. Sorry to say, no offense intended, the 16th century is over 200 years later many, *every native american was well aware of what muskets are. Some British traders even chose to live with the Cherokee, making them a direct link to foreign technology.

I know that the descriptions at the moment are a bit stupid, but that is just because of lack of a better one. I will ask my researchers to draw up a better one.

Secondly, I'll make this easy for me to explain, and easier for you to understand lol. The idea guerilla warfare (called light infantry doctrine in ETW) was implemented after observing how native americans operated during combat. Native americans never fought in lines, and they never fought standing out in the open. Since the light infantry doctrine is the only close thing depicting that. I believe all unit formations should be set that way.

I'd absolutely love to do this, but unfortunately don't know how to. Sorry. I have done this to some extent by increasing gaps between soldiers, but I know that that doesn't necessarily give the effect we all would want.

Thirdly, the use of bows began to die during the 17th century, yes I said 17th. They were commonly used as stealth weapons in the 18th century but no more than that, mainly for hunting as you can imagine. The widespread of muskets (fusil was a native american favorite) emerged during the early 18th century due to the fact that native americans regarded it a better weapon to use. Reason why, native americans extremely adept at the use of the bow were just as good at dodging an arrow than firing it. Muskets became extremely popular the moment they realized the speed and velocity of the bullet, just because you can't dodge it lol. Only drawbacks native americans didn't like reloading, and simply the fact that it gave away your position instantly when firing. (Just to add muskets should be in early custom battles)

I take that back in away, I'm not gonna say bows died out, but there use began to become obsolete the moment native americans got there hands on muskets for the reasons I specified already.

We have had musket-bow arguments before, and I only included muskets in late bettles on the advice of one of my researchers. In the campaign, muskets are available very early, I think in the second tier buildings. I think bows should be kept in the game, if only for gameplay reasons. Also, as you devvelop more and more buildings, you will find a lot of the better units will be musket based, as this will be especially evident when I release the next update, where there is a probably about a 2:1 ratio for musket ranged units and bow ranged units.

Lastly, native americans strived to be effective with muskets and even hunted with them to get better at the use. All I'm basically trying to say here is that there accuracy should be the same as light infantry and such. Who knows maybe even better, doubt I could hit a deer with something like that lol.

I think this is something I disagree with you on. The better musket infantry have at least the same accuracy as light infantry, but I think that normal native American wouldn't be as adept with a musket as a trained European one. While the native Americans did strived to become more effective at them, the Europeans trained quite a lot to get better at them.

Just hoping this can help, looks like a complaint post, I'm sorry lol. Historical accuracy has always been my thing, some of this will help, some of it may not.

P.s. I love the mod already.

Historical accuracy is one of the main things this mod is aiming at. This may not be that evident at the moment, but if you look at the work Vonwolfi is doing on skins, and the amount of research that is being done on the appearance of the native Americans, and the type of soldiers that they had is incredible. Just wait for the next update (whenver that will be), and I promise you won't be disapointed!

Thanks for the feedback - and I hope you continue to enjoy the mod!

[Kainai]

Great idea for a mod by the way. I'm from the Kainai tribe of Blackfoot (A Plains Nation). Quick question about the Mod, have you updated any buildings or technology so that the Native Nations can trade and etc...? Oh and if you need any help with Native research let me know, I read some ignorant replies earlier, like someone said the Huron were extinct by the 1700's...which is wrong. They merged with another tribe and became Wyandot.

[Irmo]

I am working on buildings at the moment, so that each factions has a unique building tree. Only the Plains nations can't trade at the moment - because there is 'wilderness' between their capital and other regions. When the map can be edited, this can be fixed. I can't do new technolgy threads yet, so unfortunately no technologies yet. If you want to join, just PM me. You can never have too much researchers!

[TWmadman]

i play darth mod (normal size, no commander edition!) should i download the great spirit 1.1 without any risk? i mean, do you change skins or do you also change stats? because i wouldn't like unbalanced game after installing this beautiful mod

[Irmo]

There is a DM compatibility pack.

[TWmadman]

yes but for commander edition (huge size, 400+ men per regiment ultra setting) i m playing with standard size 1.9 DM (160 men per regiment on ultra)

[TWmadman]

anyway it is compatible, unfortunatly accuracy isn't : 60 accuracy for archers

[vopohame]

Im glad you have Aloicias there as he will not stear you wrong. However I dont understand why the medicine men are there unless they are there to represent the various moral effecting apects to native american warfare.

Archery,
Native americans bows varied by region as your probably aware of. The plains generally had two types the composite recurve and the osage orange flatbow. I have a traditional native american composite recurve here in my home and it has 130 pound draw weight. I can fire the first 3 arrows in succession in under 3 seconds. After that I have to draw from the quiver. The typical plains quiver can hold up to 100 arrows, and I can average 20 a minute and its very easy to hit them all within a square foot if youve practiced enough. I can also do this from horseback just as easily.

[Aloicias]

Thanks vopo, I have tried to help whenever I can. Ive been really busy. I wouldnt worry, these guys know thier stuff. Whats out now is like lets say a beta. I wish you could see inside, vonwolfi is making things Ive dreamed of for two years. Keep an eye on this thing.

[Wild Rover]

Just a question: will horse archers still shoot like riflemen? They should shoot like Tatars or those Mughal horse archers.

[Irmo]

TWMadman - there isn't a set accuracy for archers - better archers will have better accuracy.

Wild Rover - what do you mean? The animation is for an archer I think (I'm not sure if this is true for version 1.1, but will definitely be so for the next update).

[Wild Rover]

In my game (version 1.1), horse archers shoot like riflemen. Glad to hear it will be fixed.

[Irmo]

I will be uploading a new version hopefully tomorrow, if not then later, to be compatible with Empire 1.3, and that will have quite a few bug fixes in.

[Irishguard22]

great mod!

[Irmo]

Thanks! Praise is always nice .

[Lami]

I'd really love to see a better working tech tree as well, Before i had the bright idea of capturing slightly settled areas in the Americas and using colleges already there, but you cant train any units with the opposing sides technology unfortunately, i thought a game of technical espionage would be great, but it just wasn't happening.