Snaga are WAY to POWERFUL for being Slaves!!!

[Ceasar Gubius]

I'm playing the Dwarves and I fight the Goblins constantly! But a majorityof their force is Snaga (Because it is cheap and massive numbers), but they SLAUGHTER my dwarven warriors on 1 on 1! And don't forget their javillens! So by the time I get to the (I've already taken a beating with thrown spears), I should be able to slaughter them up close. NOT SO, they stand their ground and beat the poop out of my warriors. A horrible death to befall a son of Durin !!! They either need to be made more expensive, or make it to where they can't take shoot for damage or deal the same up close... Thanks

Hint, try a one on one from most basic dwarven units against Snaga, THE SNAGA WILL WIN !!!

[Smaug]

Strongly second this motion.

[MadTiest]

I was suprised to read this, so I did a quick test. And a unit of snage does defeat a more expensive unit of dwarven warriors. 1 on 1 a single dwarf still beats a single snaga, but snage outnumber dwarves 2 to 1 (especially after a few javelin throws). But it is indeed strange a unit of snage so easily defeats a unit of dwarves (I had a 188 left I think, it would've been even more if I wasn't too lazy to do more hit and run)

Just did another battle. Now, the Gondorians had slightly lower morale towards the end because another unit was fleeing, but still weird that Gondorian infantry (about twice as expensive as snage) only had about 20/150 men left after taking on my snaga...

I haven't played OoMM yet, but with a good general (to negate the low morale) I expect I could do pretty well in the early game with a massive snaga army.

EDIT: Just did a quick campaign. 6 units of snaga (& faction leader general) vs 6 units of rebel beornings. Didn't use any proper tactics or the bodyguard in battle, because I just wanted to test the snaga (with a leader to compensate for low morale). I easily won, with 1000/1500 soldiers left. It's official: snaga >= Men ;-) (Well, maybe not, having a good general makes all the difference, but tests with only snaga also show their prowess, see above)

EDIT2:

Whoever votes overpowered needs to learn the rock-paper-scissors system. In TATW it works like this: Trolls beat everything, Snaga beat trolls. I just defeated a unit of trolls with 2 units of snaga (+/- 700 gold snaga vs 1100 gold troll IIRC), and I had 300/501 snaga left.

EDIT: Olog-hai suck as well. I wish I could change my vote to ''they don't even show up on my scouter''
3 units of snage vs 1 olog-hai (+/- 1000 gold vs 1500 gold) results in a victory for the snaga. 622/750 left. This is pretty ridiculous.

[Ragnarök]

I have to agree with you. In the below battle I used the latest missile nerf of KK, but it was more a hunt then a battle.
As you can see, the only unit that fought effectively was my dale cavalry. The Enemy had an army of snaga
skirmisher and 4 goblin infantry. Even the high armor of the Axemen of Erebor was pierced by the snaga.

Could you force the AI to build more melee and/or nerf the snaga? This would improve the battles a lot.

[Brutis]

i also find that there moral is 2 high for their lowest unit. when playin a battle i had a elven general bodyguard hit the left and anougher on their right flank. they didnt rout for a very long time, and they where led only by a captian

[Cleardream]

Snaga Skirmishers have AP for both their melee and ranged attacks, so despite their fairly low stats, they bulldoze through elite type units with their large numbers and hit and run tactics. Archers are the bane of them though.

[Nazgûl Killer]

Snaga are very strong from what I've seen, I've only encountered them when helping my Dwarven allies as Silvan Elves, and the Snaga have a HUGE range, but since the battlefield was odd (They were shooting upwards), they hardly hit anything, so I don't know, they could really be that strong, I just never saw it.

[suo]

If you use crossbows ans throwing axes, the skirmishers do not stand up against the dwarves. And if you use shieldwall formation the warriors stand their ground and beat snaga infantry.
But that is only my experience in campaign-battles with about 1000 mixed dwarves against 3000 goblins. no 1:1 tests.

[Walkman810i]

Their armor is pretty strong considering they are naked.

[Soul Firez]

yeah the discription has them as lesser goblins prone to flee but they sure do stand and fight like damn good infantry for being a range troop

[Jean=A=Luc]

People, just remove their AP trait and lower their attack by 1 (for a start), you can easily change this by yourselves in like a minute or less.

[Mardius]

Actually I would like to have a bigger gap, between elites an merely militia. Not saying that elites, shouldn’t be beatable by cheap units, but with such low pool on elites, and their high cost, I would like them to perform better against merely slaves. Maybe lowering the overall attack of all units, to make the high armored elites, survive better? And yeah some of the goblins units seem to have unnatural high defense even with no armor at all Just my 2 cents. Other than that, its a great mod

[King Kong]

Like J=A=L said, Snagas actually shouldn't have the armor-piercing attribute. This is what makes the snagas too powerful, especially against dwarves, because one volley of javelins halves the armor of the dwarves, which is their main advantage.

Will be fixed with the next patch.


@Ragnarök,
My "fixed" missile EDU din't include javelins yet.

[Nazgûl Killer]

People, just remove their AP trait and lower their attack by 1 (for a start), you can easily change this by yourselves in like a minute or less.

Where may we find this, if you would be so kind?

[MadTiest]

Where may we find this, if you would be so kind?

export_descr_unit.txt in Third Age data folder.

;#################################################################
;###################### ORCS OF THE MM #########################
;#################################################################
type Snaga Skirmishers
dictionary Snaga_Skirmishers ; Snaga Skirmishers
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_missile
banner holy crusade
soldier snaga_skirmishers, 100, 0, 1
mount_effect elephant +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, start_not_skirmishing, free_upkeep_unit
move_speed_mod 1.1
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 7, 3, javelin, 55, 4, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr ap, thrown
stat_sec 3, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 1, 0, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 1, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental 7, low, trained
stat_charge_dist 15
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 370, 160, 75, 75, 370, 4, 100
armour_ug_levels 2
armour_ug_models snaga_skirmishers
ownership hre, france
era 0 hre, france
era 1 hre, france
era 2 hre, france
recruit_priority_offset 0

Removing the bold&underlined part should do the trick.. (or format your computer, I dunno)

[King Kong]

you can just use the EDU that I have attached here and replace it with your current EDU in Third_Age/data:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=254765&page=11

[Ragnarök]

I don't know how the recruitment for the AI works, but could you make them recruiting more melee infantry since the nerfed skirmisher would be pretty easy.

[AirnetSnake]

Most of Harad units in my game totally misses their skins when I have camera close to them(not a silver guys,they're completely invisible). If it's far away i can finally see their units.

[Badg3r]

i agree
OoTMM and Mordor units that are like 250 strong should be made a lot weaker
atm they can easily stand up to more expencive, lower numbered units
isinguard in particular seems to have taken over rediculious amounts of land very quickly
atleast on one game

[Ragnarök]

It's not only the snaga, there are more skirmisher with armor piercing.. indeed most of the units have that very powerful attribute.
For factions that rely highly on armor like the dwarves, since they have to resist a lot until they can reach the enemy, that's pretty deadly.
Especially armor piercing missiles are dwarf-killers, in skirmish mode almost unreachable, only with special tactics..