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Thread: Fellow Americans: Spread the Word

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    Gelatinous Cube's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Here in America, we have a problem. This problem is a two-party system that not only monopolizes politics, but prevents anything meaninfgul from actually being accomplished. Furthermore, we have an administration in office right now that is breaking the foundations of the very platform it claims to support, and is still recieving popular support. I think the main problem stems from a lack of education and information. I'm dedicating this thread to a cause: Getting Americans involved in American politics. For too long, it has been a system dominated by a special class of people who have the money and connections to get into politics, with a few rare exceptions.

    Here is my plea:

    Regardless of your political beliefs, regardless of religious beliefs, regardless of semantics, I want to get people to get involved. Write letters to your congressmen. Run for city offices. Hell, run for congress. We're seeing an unprecedented amount of authority transferred to the Executive branch of the government during the Bush administration, and this is against many of the Constitution's founding principles. Help restore authority and purpose to the legislative branch while you still can!

    Who's with me, eh?
    Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
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    Lugotorix's Avatar non flectis non mutant
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    I am with you, in spirit.
    AUTHOR OF TROY OF THE WESTERN SEA: LOVE AND CARNAGE UNDER THE RULE OF THE VANDAL KING, GENSERIC
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    Gelatinous Cube's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Originally posted by Lugotorix@May 17 2005, 02:52 AM
    I am with you, in spirit.
    I'm serious. If you live in America go out and educate people. Hand out pamphlets, make phonecalls. This forum is as good a medium as any, there's some smart people here of all political persuations.
    Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
    Poets: What if you have to take it on Faith?
    Cube: Bah, no deal. That's like a crack-head asking for $5 on Credit.

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    Uh...okay....

    You do understand there are something like 300 Libertarians holding elected office right now, right? State reps, mayors, etc. They ran something like 1500 candidates in 2002 and got over 3 million votes. Thats only one "3rd party." There are a whole bunch of them.
    (Patron of Lord Rahl)

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    Gelatinous Cube's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Originally posted by MadBurgerMaker@May 17 2005, 02:58 AM
    Uh...okay....

    You do understand there are something like 300 Libertarians holding elected office right now, right? State reps, mayors, etc. They ran something like 1500 candidates in 2002 and got over 3 million votes. Thats only one "3rd party." There are a whole bunch of them.
    Yeah, that doesn't change the stagnancy of the Senate. If you ask the average american what political parties exist, he/she'll likely say "Democrat and Republican". In reality, unless something changes, alot of Americans are not getting adequate representation.
    Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
    Poets: What if you have to take it on Faith?
    Cube: Bah, no deal. That's like a crack-head asking for $5 on Credit.

  6. #6

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    You think you guys have it bad?

    Here in Japan, the power is all shared by the Liberal Democratic Party and the Koumei party. They have always gotten the most seats on the diet and have sent out the Prime Minister for the past few decades. The Liberal Democratic party is one of the most right wing and conservative parties out there. The Koumei Party is even worse, they are a bunch of cultists.

    Currently the Liberal Democratic Party is trying to give the mail system to the hands of the people while diplomatic relations with China fail, America threatens us with economic sanctions for not eating their beef, and North Korea still wont give back the remains of Yokota Megumi san.

    On top of that, all politicans are corrupt. They get hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, they take are given fancy houses and big cars, the capitol has massage chairs, and they get 200 dollars for just coming to work! And thats all paid with our retirement funds. Meanwhile Koizumi wants to raise taxes and lessen the amount of pension paid to our elderly while making our young pay more money. And it was found that both the actor doing to commercial for the government commercial calling for young people to deposit more money for retirement funds, and the guy in charge of the office of retirement funds arent paying any money

  7. #7
    Gelatinous Cube's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Originally posted by deathdoom56@May 17 2005, 03:02 AM
    You think you guys have it bad?

    Here in Japan, the power is all shared by the Liberal Democratic Party and the Koumei party. They have always gotten the most seats on the diet and have sent out the Prime Minister for the past few decades. The Liberal Democratic party is one of the most right wing and conservative parties out there. The Koumei Party is even worse, they are a bunch of cultists.

    Currently the Liberal Democratic Party is trying to give the mail system to the hands of the people while diplomatic relations with China fail, America threatens us with economic sanctions for not eating their beef, and North Korea still wont give back the remains of Yokota Megumi san.

    On top of that, all politicans are corrupt. They get hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, they take are given fancy houses and big cars, the capitol has massage chairs, and they get 200 dollars for just coming to work! And thats all paid with our retirement funds. Meanwhile Koizumi wants to raise taxes and lessen the amount of pension paid to our elderly while making our young pay more money. And it was found that both the actor doing to commercial for the government commercial calling for young people to deposit more money for retirement funds, and the guy in charge of the office of retirement funds arent paying any money
    Indeed. In the US, one could argue that we have an adequate variety of representation in the lower-profile political offices, but that doesn't change the larger-scale problems. The problem has always been a lack of education and incentive for the common joe to get invovled, I think. Is that how it is in Japan?
    Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
    Poets: What if you have to take it on Faith?
    Cube: Bah, no deal. That's like a crack-head asking for $5 on Credit.

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    Originally posted by Gelatinous Cube+May 17 2005, 01:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td> (Gelatinous Cube &#064; May 17 2005, 01:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MadBurgerMaker@May 17 2005, 02:58 AM
    Uh...okay....

    You do understand there are something like 300 Libertarians holding elected office right now, right? State reps, mayors, etc. They ran something like 1500 candidates in 2002 and got over 3 million votes. Thats only one "3rd party." There are a whole bunch of them.
    Yeah, that doesn&#39;t change the stagnancy of the Senate. If you ask the average american what political parties exist, he/she&#39;ll likely say "Democrat and Republican". In reality, unless something changes, alot of Americans are not getting adequate representation. [/b][/quote]
    So...If a party that has a quarter million registered voters, gets a lot more than that at election time, and has a large amount of funding, etc, cant get a bunch of their people elected to congress, what exactly are you going to do by yourself? Aside from losing to write ins like Mickey Mouse and such, and basically making yourself look stupid, of course.

    The reality is the average American is simply voting for one of the two parties they feel has the best chance of winning, and that more closely fits their wants and needs. Its not because there is a lack of choice. There are plenty of alternate choices, and Ive never met an American who DOESNT know that there are other political parties out there. Remember Ross Perot? He got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992. Hes not a Republican or Democrat. Hes a member of the "Reform Party." Dont forget Nader and his pathetic attempts to get himself elected President.

    The Libertarians are one of the few "3rd Parties" that has any sort of credibility anymore, but they still arent considered when it comes to the bigtime stage, at least for the moment. They do have the best chance of becoming a relatively "major" party for now, but certain things they advocate, most notably the legalization of ALL drugs, turn alot of people off. If they would adjust certain things they did, they could actually stand a chance of getting a rather large number of votes...enough to put them on the national stage right there with Republicans and Democrats.

    EDIT (late, but Ive just been able to open the thread...brings back some bad memories about this site :>< ): The solution isnt to be writing strange letters to congressmen..who are members of the parties you dislike. They&#39;ll probably just laugh at you.

    Nor is the solution to have a hundred million different people running for a senate seat as independents. All that does is split up whatever small amount of independent votes there are out there. What needs to happen is a third party needs to slowly build up enough support by being elected to the small, lowly offices you deride.
    (Patron of Lord Rahl)

  9. #9

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    Its almost as bad in australia, but at least you HAVE to vote here some people have some IDEA of waht is happeneing. But it is still biparty system that is %&#036;#%ED&#33; Democracy is ewll, pretty screwed in my opinion, call me a cynic but at least we used to know who pulled the strings (back in the day) now its just....

  10. #10

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    Originally posted by Gelatinous Cube@May 17 2005, 04:04 AM
    Indeed. In the US, one could argue that we have an adequate variety of representation in the lower-profile political offices, but that doesn&#39;t change the larger-scale problems. The problem has always been a lack of education and incentive for the common joe to get invovled, I think. Is that how it is in Japan?
    Actually, the people have very little means to get involved in politics. I will only touch this briefly but we can only get involved in voting for the governors of our prefects, changing the constitution, and local matters. We cant vote for prime minister and stuff.

  11. #11
    Gelatinous Cube's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Originally posted by MadBurgerMaker+May 17 2005, 03:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td> (MadBurgerMaker &#064; May 17 2005, 03:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
    Originally posted by Gelatinous Cube@May 17 2005, 01:00 AM
    <!--QuoteBegin-MadBurgerMaker
    @May 17 2005, 02:58 AM
    Uh...okay....

    You do understand there are something like 300 Libertarians holding elected office right now, right? State reps, mayors, etc. They ran something like 1500 candidates in 2002 and got over 3 million votes. Thats only one "3rd party." There are a whole bunch of them.

    Yeah, that doesn&#39;t change the stagnancy of the Senate. If you ask the average american what political parties exist, he/she&#39;ll likely say "Democrat and Republican". In reality, unless something changes, alot of Americans are not getting adequate representation.
    So...If a party that has a quarter million registered voters, gets a lot more than that at election time, and has a large amount of funding, etc, cant get a bunch of their people elected to congress, what exactly are you going to do by yourself? Aside from losing to write ins like Mickey Mouse and such, and basically making yourself look stupid, of course.

    The reality is the average American is simply voting for one of the two parties they feel has the best chance of winning, and that more closely fits their wants and needs. Its not because there is a lack of choice. There are plenty of alternate choices, and Ive never met an American who DOESNT know that there are other political parties out there. Remember Ross Perot? He got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992. Hes not a Republican or Democrat. Hes a member of the "Reform Party." Dont forget Nader and his pathetic attempts to get himself elected President.

    The Libertarians are one of the few "3rd Parties" that has any sort of credibility anymore, but they still arent considered when it comes to the bigtime stage, at least for the moment. They do have the best chance of becoming a relatively "major" party for now, but certain things they advocate, most notably the legalization of ALL drugs, turn alot of people off. If they would adjust certain things they did, they could actually stand a chance of getting a rather large number of votes...enough to put them on the national stage right there with Republicans and Democrats. [/b][/quote]
    This is all quite true. Do you deny, however, that the system is stagnating, and that it needs fresh blood and fresh ideas? I&#39;m not proposing some kind of surefire idealogy. I just think if people get more involved in the system it could bring a breath of fresh air. At the very least, I&#39;d at least like to see the two major parties break into smaller ones. They both encompass too much, and neither of them are capable of pleasing everyone under their umbrella.

    Actually, the people have very little means to get involved in politics. I will only touch this briefly but we can only get involved in voting for the governors of our prefects, changing the constitution, and local matters. We cant vote for prime minister and stuff.
    Here in the US, the people don&#39;t vote for the president either. Instead it is more of an opinion poll, and the electoral college (almost always) votes the way that the people decided for their state.
    Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
    Poets: What if you have to take it on Faith?
    Cube: Bah, no deal. That&#39;s like a crack-head asking for &#036;5 on Credit.

  12. #12
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Hah, Japanese and Americans think they have it bad&#33;

    In my country we have patented a form of hereditary democracy. You can be ruled by anyone IF he&#39;s a relative of a previous ruler. Our PM is nephew of an ex-PM and president of the republic. The leader of the opposition is son, and grandson of prime ministers. The Mayor of our capital and designated future PM is daughter of an ex-prime minister. And 20% of the parliament members are related to each other. Talking about upholding family values here&#33;
    As if that was not enough the two main parties are conservatives with socialist tendencies and socialists with conservative tendencies respectively, which here translates as exactly the same.
    We also have a communist party which still believes that Prague 1968, Hungary 1956 and Afghanistan 1978 were internal affairs of the Soviet Union.
    The only good thing is that the uber-right gets around 0.03 %....

  13. #13
    Gelatinous Cube's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Originally posted by Garbarsardar@May 17 2005, 03:28 AM
    Hah, Japanese and Americans think they have it bad&#33;

    In my country we have patented a form of hereditary democracy. You can be ruled by anyone IF he&#39;s a relative of a previous ruler. Our PM is nephew of an ex-PM and president of the republic. The leader of the opposition is son, and grandson of prime ministers. The Mayor of our capital and designated future PM is daughter of an ex-prime minister. And 20% of the parliament members are related to each other. Talking about upholding family values here&#33;
    As if that was not enough the two main parties are conservatives with socialist tendencies and socialists with conservative tendencies respectively, which here translates as exactly the same.
    We also have a communist party which still believes that Prague 1968, Hungary 1956 and Afghanistan 1978 were internal affairs of the Soviet Union.
    The only good thing is that the uber-right gets around 0.03 %....
    Ouch.. where the hell do you live, man?
    Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
    Poets: What if you have to take it on Faith?
    Cube: Bah, no deal. That&#39;s like a crack-head asking for &#036;5 on Credit.

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    Originally posted by Gelatinous Cube@May 17 2005, 01:27 AM
    This is all quite true. Do you deny, however, that the system is stagnating, and that it needs fresh blood and fresh ideas? I&#39;m not proposing some kind of surefire idealogy. I just think if people get more involved in the system it could bring a breath of fresh air. At the very least, I&#39;d at least like to see the two major parties break into smaller ones. They both encompass too much, and neither of them are capable of pleasing everyone under their umbrella.
    Yeah...Id been trying to get back nto the thread to edit my post there for the last several minutes. Here&#39;s the edit:

    EDIT (late, but Ive just been able to open the thread...brings back some bad memories about this site pinch.gif ): The solution isnt to be writing strange letters to congressmen..who are members of the parties you dislike. They&#39;ll probably just laugh at you.

    Nor is the solution to have a hundred million different people running for a senate seat as independents. All that does is split up whatever small amount of independent votes there are out there. What needs to happen is a third party needs to slowly build up enough support by being elected to the small, lowly offices you deride.
    Its great to want to change the system, but large shifts take time. Like I said...they need to start out small and get their voter base built up. They cant expect a freak 3rd party vote (see 1992, but with 51% instead of 20%) to just fling them into office.

    Also....the Democrat and Republican parties have about as much of a chance to splinter (without some insane events occuring) as I have of being elected President. Not much of a shot, but wierd things CAN happen, I suppose.

    I dont want you to misunderstand my position here. Im not associated with ANY political party. Im one of those "swing voters" you always hear the idiot talking heads on CNN babbling about. I would vote for any party that has ideas that I like, and (as Im sure you can guess) the Libertarian party has quite a few more of those good ideas (to me) than the two majors for the moment.
    (Patron of Lord Rahl)

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    Gelatinous Cube's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Its great to want to change the system, but large shifts take time. Like I said...they need to start out small and get their voter base built up. They cant expect a freak 3rd party vote (see 1992, but with 51% instead of 20%) to just fling them into office.
    Of course. My worry is that by the time people wake up and smell the coffee, the bush administration (or, more likely, it&#39;s predecessor--there&#39;s little chance of an opposing party to win in 2008 if you ask me) will have transferred too much power to the Executive branch away from the Legislative. Already one gets the feeling that congress is simply doing Bush&#39;s bidding without any real respect for it&#39;s own authority. The whole John Bolton thing is a good example of that.
    Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
    Poets: What if you have to take it on Faith?
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    Ouch.. where the hell do you live, man?
    I was refering to my Country: Greece, although now I live in Taiwan.

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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Originally posted by MadBurgerMaker@May 17 2005, 04:37 AM
    Also....the Democrat and Republican parties have about as much of a chance to splinter (without some insane events occuring) as I have of being elected President. Not much of a shot, but wierd things CAN happen, I suppose.
    I disagree. I think the Demonrats could be heading for a meltdown. The demonrats have been on the defensive for the last 25 years. Even the presidency of Bill Clinton is most notable for conservative gains (NAFTA, Welfare Reform taking control of Congress.) His flag ship issues were all defeated, even when the demonrats held Congress. Don&#39;t discount the fact that the Democratic party is essentially a coalition party, and political coalitions cannot survive continual defeat.

    Don&#39;t get me wrong, I doubt that the democrats would split up, but there is a better chance than you realize.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

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  18. #18

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    Originally posted by Big War Bird@May 17 2005, 04:07 AM
    I disagree. I think the Demonrats could be heading for a meltdown. The demonrats have been on the defensive for the last 25 years. Even the presidency of Bill Clinton is most notable for conservative gains (NAFTA, Welfare Reform taking control of Congress.) His flag ship issues were all defeated, even when the demonrats held Congress. Don&#39;t discount the fact that the Democratic party is essentially a coalition party, and political coalitions cannot survive continual defeat.

    Don&#39;t get me wrong, I doubt that the democrats would split up, but there is a better chance than you realize.
    The Democratic party is for sure the most likely one to splinter if one of them was to do so, yes, but I seriously dont think its as good a chance as some people would think for the time being. Im pretty sure the main players in the party (both financial and political) are able to, at least for the moment, keep them mostly together. If they are defeated across the board in the next couple elections along the lines of what we saw in 2004...well...

    What remains to be seen in all this is if the Republican party (along with all the other, smaller parties) are able to &#39;properly&#39; exploit the potential weakness in the stability of the Democratic party. If theyre able to do that in a big way, you may be correct, and the Dem party could very well fragment into various...pieces. Would be quite interesting to see what came of it, what smaller parties were formed, what their ideals are, etc.

    Uh...there was more...but some little punk tweety bird right outside my window here wont BE QUIET DAMMIT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Annoying, constant, and very high pitched chirps are messing with my ability to think. :>< :><
    (Patron of Lord Rahl)

  19. #19

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    I agree with what you said about the executive branch having gained power I mean I swear its like congress lost its spine. If congress used its right to raise an army in the event that the executive branch is unable or unwilling to do its duty and actually declared war on the executive branch I&#39;d join it. Also I do try to tell my fellow people (bites though because we can&#39;t vote yet) about politics and what not but unfortunately some of us have to deal with the fact that the average american is a complete and total idiot.
    Me and my friend sam
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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Originally posted by MadBurgerMaker@May 17 2005, 07:33 AM
    What remains to be seen in all this is if the Republican party (along with all the other, smaller parties) are able to &#39;properly&#39; exploit the potential weakness in the stability of the Democratic party. If theyre able to do that in a big way, you may be correct, and the Dem party could very well fragment into various...pieces. Would be quite interesting to see what came of it, what smaller parties were formed, what their ideals are, etc.
    Allegedly, Karl Rove has a plan to destroy the democratic party and is following with ruthless efficiency, according to both right wing and left wing commentators that i&#39;ve heard. Oddly neither of the sides appreciate it very much. The right because is compromises on selected items with the left, and the left hates it because it robs them of their issues and demagoguery.

    Lets list them some

    Social Security reform - Private accounts with Social Security was the brain child of deceased democrat senator Patrick Monyihan. Bill Clinton supported it during his presdency. This became an issue in the 2000 elections with Bush supporting the idea and Al Gore now opposing.

    Rx Drugs Benefit
    A spinoff of Hillarycare, Bush proposed a lesser version of the democrat Rx benefit onto Medicare. Democrats refused to compromise their position setting them up to be opposed by the AARP normally their ally which was willing to accept a small victory.

    Immigration reform
    Democrat have long in favor of amnesty for illegal froms Mexico, so long as they could be the ones to do it. Now out of power and pressured by union interests they are caught in a lose lose situation.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

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