The PALANTIR Unit Guide for Third Age v3.2

[Jean=A=Luc]

Thanks for 4.0, glad you're still at it.

[Vifarc]

On the missile units page 18, Mordor ones are weird: Uruk-hai have throwing halberds?!
(miss 1 scout and 2 archers units)

[brandybarrel]

Hi Vifarc,

Well spotted. Mordor’s trio of missile units were misplaced by a trio of their melee units on the Missile page. I had only noticed it a couple of weeks ago.

The PALANTIR v4.1 is now up with Mordor’s missile units on the missile page. Other minor changes include unit name centering and placing merc Costs in the Merc unit card.

Thanks for reminding me.

[Vifarc]

I tested the Silvan units speed (Custom battle on a plain, vs 1 dwarf heavy infantry. I set my units as showing my back, and flee ):
I would correct as this:
Ents 11 ok
Silvan Horsarcher 10 ok
Light Elven Archer 5.5 6
Silvan Hvy Archer 5.5 6
Sindar Archers* 5.5 5 (what a slow archers)
Woodland Sentinel 5.5 6
Forest Wardens 4.5 5
Silvan Hvy Spears 4.5 5
Silvan Spearmen 4.5 ok (yes they seem slower than heavy ones!)
Silvan Hvy Swords 4 ok
Beornings 4 (when you'll do it for mercs too)
I made only one race battle, but I don't think it will change on another one.
To have the speed numbers, once the 1st reached the end of map, I took 11 for the Ents and 4 for the HvySword, and scale the distances on my screen with my ruler

[brandybarrel]

Hi Vifarc

Well done. You will have to do many more runs or comparisons to get a better feel of how all TATW units run relative to each other. Your observations are mostly based on the Elves I believe.

Every TATW unit was run more than once alongside a human melee and missile unit given a standard value of 4 and 5 respectively. All human and non-human units ran against the human standard and were compared by their relative distance between each other as they approached the “finish line". It’s a subjective and relative observation (no rulers were involved).

You may give the elves a melee speed of 5 and missile speed of 6 since you are only comparing elves with a human melee unit “Beornings” of 4. I would probably make the same observation. However, you did not include a human missile unit (5) in your observation. An elf melee unit does not run as fast as a human missile unit of 5. It is slower.

An elf melee unit would approach the goal between a human melee unit (4) and a human missile unit (5). The elf melee unit is faster than the human melee unit but not as fast as the human missile unit. Hence, the elven melee unit speed 4.5. The same case applies for the elven archer and its proximity to the human standard archer and elf melee unit. It is faster than the human archer but not that much faster. Hence, 5.5

I hope this gives you some insight into how I conducted the unit speed comparisons and how I arrived at the values, subjective and all.

Cheers,

[Vifarc]

Your observations are mostly based on the Elves I believe.

Yes, as I said. Only Silvans.

human melee and missile unit given a standard value of 4 and 5 respectively. It’s a subjective and relative observation (no rulers were involved).

Maybe if you used a ruler, you would have find that's 4(however I didn't verify) and 5.5 (if the 4 is correct) ..

, you did not include a human missile unit (5) in your observation. An elf melee unit does not run as fast as a human missile unit of 5. It is slower.
An elf melee unit would approach the goal between a human melee unit (4) and a human missile unit (5). The elf melee unit is faster than the human melee unit but not as fast as the human missile unit. Hence, the elven melee unit speed 4.5. The same case applies for the elven archer and its proximity to the human standard archer and elf melee unit. It is faster than the human archer but not that much faster. Hence, 5.5

Ok. But as I just said, if you had found that human missile units run at 5.5 (I didn't verify), then my numbers are correct (however I must confirm with 2 more race battles).
And I do say that the general silvan unit is SLOW! It is a very slow archer unit (for an Elf). I use it many times everyday!!!

I thank you for your numbers, they seem almost perfect lol

[brandybarrel]

Hi Vifarc

Just to clarify...

The standard was set at human melee unit speed 4 and human missile unit 5 (not 5.5).

The elf melee unit ran at 4.5 and the elf archer unit at 5.5.



Edit. The Silvan Heavy Archer without a general unit runs at the same speed as the othe elven archers, 5.5.
I just tested it again. Perhaps the addition of a general unit in-game makes it run slower.

[Vifarc]

The standard was set at human melee unit speed 4 and human missile unit 5 (not 5.5).
The elf melee unit ran at 4.5 and the elf archer unit at 5.5.

Ok, then the speed of Ents and elvan cavalry should be less, maybe 10 and 9, instead of 11 and 10, to keep the scales.

The Silvan Heavy Archer without a general unit runs at the same speed as the othe elven archers, 5.5.
I just tested it again. Perhaps the addition of a general unit in-game makes it run slower.

I know and did tell it:
I didn't say Heavy archers unit was slow!! They are not Sindar archers without a general!!! They are different.
Just read me well:
I did wrote 6 for Heavy Archers (same speed as other elven archers without a general, in my system where Human archers run at 5.5), and 5 for Sindar Archers (the general unit).
But, yeah, maybe that's the general (heavy infantry?) which slow the entire Sindar archers unit..

[brandybarrel]

I know and did tell it:
I didn't say Heavy archers unit was slow!! They are not Sindar archers without a general!!! They are different.
Just read me well:
I did wrote 6 for Heavy Archers (same speed as other elven archers without a general, in my system where Human archers run at 5.5), and 5 for Sindar Archers (the general unit).
But, yeah, maybe that's the general (heavy infantry?) which slow the entire Sindar archers unit..

This is getting funny. We both misread each other’s post.

In any case, all elven archers run at the same speed, including the Sindar Archers in Custom Battle runs.

I cannot speak for the Sindar Archer’s speed in the Campaign game with the addition of the general unit.

Ok, then the speed of Ents and elvan cavalry should be less, maybe 10 and 9, instead of 11 and 10, to keep the scales.

Regarding Cavalry units, I had set the standard at 10 for the fastest horse and worked down from there. All other cavalry units were compared to the fastest horse.

I had wanted to keep this scale to a maximum of 10 but that was before the addition of the new Ent unit. The Ents were faster than all other cavalry so 11.

If you prefer to have Ents at 10 and fast horses at 9, that’s okay. As long as you show their relative speeds and make adjustments for the other cavalry units.

I hope this provides some insight into the way I illustrated relative speeds.

Cheers,

[Vifarc]

In any case, all elven archers run at the same speed, including the Sindar Archers in Custom Battle runs.

Then you have to remove the ' * ' telling it's a general unit in the speed page of The Palantir. Or you have to notify its speed is not the campaign one.

I cannot speak for the Sindar Archer’s speed in the Campaign game with the addition of the general unit.

You just have to make the Sindar Archers unit the general, by choosing it first in buying your army in a custom battle, and you will see its actual campaign speed. That's what I did for the general campaign silvan unit.

Cheers too, .

[brandybarrel]

Hi Vifarc

Even if Sindar Archers are selected as the General/Captain unit first in Custom Battle, they run at the same speed as all other Silvan faction archers.

I have tested this a repeated amount of times just for this discussion.

Are you using a mod?

[Vifarc]

Even if Sindar Archers are selected as the General unit first in Custom Battle, they run at the same speed as all other Silvan faction archers.
Are you using a mod?

You may be right:
I installed the TA1.4 on RC+R1.3... (but didn't for now installed RC+R1.4)
I am very sorry if this speed problem comes from some bits of RC+R not erased by vanilia TA.

[UberB]

This looks awesome but I can't dl it as mediafire is blocked in my country

Can someone upload this to RS or another mirror?

[Aikanár]

Welcome to the forums!

Here you go

[UberB]

Welcome to the forums!

Here you go

Thank you so much!

[brandybarrel]

The Palantir v4.2 for Third Age v1.41 bugfix is now available for download.


Changes observed:

• Pelargir Marines armor decreased
• Black Numenorians armor decreased
• Uruk-Hai Raiders defense skill and costs decreased
• Hasharii attack, defence, and cost decreased
• Trollmen of Harad all-round stat change – stronger but fewer
• Mumakil costs decreased

[Timotheus]

Hm, this mod seems not improve much, or ?! What does exactly this mod improve?

[Hero of the West]

Hm, this mod seems not improve much, or ?! What does exactly this mod improve?

this is no mod.. but a guide in which all units are spoken off.. with there stats.. those changes where made in the vanilla bug fix 1.4.1 and now the text has been altered in this guide to correspond with the latest edition

[Timotheus]

Thanks patrician

[kingtigertank]

Great guide, but i think you should put in which units have lock_morale.