The PALANTIR Unit Guide for Third Age v3.2

[Haldir]

Thanks Brandy. Nice guide.

[marceror]

bump

[Jean=A=Luc]

This looks pretty good, deserves to be a sticky imo.

Let's just lay some ground rules.

Remember that this can be unstickied just as easily as it can be stickied. Limit the discussion to comments about the guide, praise, suggestions and anything guide related. Keep it clean.

Brandybarrel,

As far as I'm concerned this can remain a sticky for as long as you update the guide. If, for example, 1.2 comes out which changes unit stats I would appreciate knowing whether you plan to update or not as there is little point in keeping an outdated guide. I'm not trying to pressure you, just relaying the facts, you don't have to say or answer anything until after the next stat-changing patch is out.

In the end there's no guarantee KK or someone else higher up won't overturn my decision but hopefully they'll agree with me. The advantage this guide has over RMA is that it's usable offline and is more accessible to people with lower internet speeds. It's also easier to compare some units.

Now if I may make a small suggestion. Would you move the symbol legend from the end of the document to the beginning, many people could miss it this way and wonder what all the numbers/symbols mean, it just makes much more sense for it to be visible as soon as the document is open.

You could also create some additional symbols representing short descriptions of a unit, for example:

@ - Spearmen. Defensive unit, good vs. cavalry.

# - Shock infantry. Good for charging/flanking.

% - Light cavalry. Good for flanking, chasing routers, catching light ranged units.

You get the idea. And then just attatch each symbol to the appropriate unit.

Ok, that's it. Enjoy being stuck.

[TheXand]

kl guide man,thanx

[brandybarrel]

Hi Jean=A=Luc

Congratulations on your moderator-ship Captain.

I visit the TATW forum on a daily basis - I am a fan. The PALANTIR will be updated as soon as humanly possible upon the release of any Updates by the TATW team.

Thank you for your comments and feedback. I believe this is the first time for you to see one of my guides. For consistency, the legend will remain at the bottom as most users have come to know them. They are on each and every faction page too.

The guides are intended to be objective, only the facts. I have intentionally omitted any subjective reference with regards to the function or purpose of each unit as there can be a myriad of ways in which they can be employed. It also avoids information overload and any disputes.

Thank you Captain for the sticky and thank you marceror for the relentless bumps.

[Jean=A=Luc]

Thank you for your comments and feedback. I believe this is the first time for you to see one of my guides. For consistency, the legend will remain at the bottom as most users have come to know them. They are on each and every faction page too.

It is the first time. And I didn't notice there was a legend on every page either. To be honest I had actually began writing a suggestion for you to include a legend in your guide, that's how much trouble I had spotting it.

Luckily I've spared myself the full embarrassment.

In my defense, my LCD monitor is being repaired and the replacement they gave me is very shoddy. I have to keep the res. at 1024x768 (otherwise I can't get a refresh rate above 60) and the image is kinda blurry.

In any case, glad to hear you'll be keeping it up.

[Rookz]

I guess the DL is broken

[brandybarrel]

Hi Rookz,

I have added a FileFront link to the first page.

Thanks.

[komble]

thank you..
p.s.woodland sentinels have stakes as I know , but it is not mentioned in Palantir

[brandybarrel]

Hi komble,

Thanks for your feedback.

Indeed the Woodland Sentinel was missing the "Stakes" icon. This has now been added, along with several other missile units without the icon.

Cheers,

[Vifarc]

(removed: said typo corrected)

[brandybarrel]

Hi Vifarc,

Thanks for catching the typo. Silvan Heavy Spearmen defence: 16 = 6+6+4

Cheers,

[Vifarc]

What I'd like to find is the running speed of the unit (that's the really defense score for Silvans , and Gobs I guess lol).
Honga site has computed a 'Mobility Score'. Is there a more straight score number?

[brandybarrel]

Hi Vifarc

No, I’m afraid there is no straight answer or one quantitative value to express a unit’s speed. It is based on a combination of things (e.g., animation, mount type, etc.) and that is why there is an attempt to illustrate a unit’s movement abilities via formulas.

The best method I have used was to actually walk or run the units versus each other on a flat Custom Battle terrain. I have done so for the FAUST guide for Kingdoms and placed them into speed categories. However, it is a time consuming task and is only based on such terrain.

CA introduced the move_speed_mod later on in M2TW which adds another variable or adjustment. It’s great to use for modders if and when one wants to tweak a particular unit’s speed. The Elven units are faster than normal because they have received a boost from the mov_speed_mod in the export_descr_unit.txt file. This is only an adjuster however not an indication of actual speed.

I hope this answers your question.

[Vifarc]

The best method I have used was to actually walk or run the units versus each other on a flat Custom Battle terrain. I have done so for the FAUST guide for Kingdoms and placed them into speed categories. However, it is a time consuming task and is only based on such terrain.

http://www.mediafire.com/?0fddnjjtzun (the FileFront one seems broken)
That's on the very last page, with a very interesting Unit Defense explanation (wrong? the game says there is a difference between Right and Left for the shield protection). This Defense picture could go to the Palantir too...
So, considering it (sides, AP, missiles), I estimate the real Total score for Defense (as a general one only number for all, in T.A.) is roundly 120%(Armor) +80%(Skill) +100%(Shield) (but that is not a great difference with 100/100/100 you give as general total Defence.. even exactly the same for the Elvan Heavy Spearmen above).

CA introduced the move_speed_mod later on in M2TW which adds another variable or adjustment. It’s great to use for modders if and when one wants to tweak a particular unit’s speed. The Elven units are faster than normal because they have received a boost from the mov_speed_mod in the export_descr_unit.txt file. This is only an adjuster however not an indication of actual speed.

As we guess the speed of types of unit, a symbol for the type (maybe what JeanALuc wanted?) and for the boost could be a not so bad indication.

[brandybarrel]

Hi Vifarc,

It seems you are very interested in the mechanics of Unit Defence in M2TW (TATW). The explanation of defence is correct as illustrated in the The FAUST and based on my discussions with CAOZ at the time. In RTW (CAUK), shield defence applied only to the front and left side of the unit but this was changed for M2TW and it now applies to both sides of the unit but at 50%. A unit’s best defence is to the front, then to the sides and then finally to the rear in which only armor is applied. The PALANTIR illustrates unit Defence as quantified in the EDU. This is the maximum or Front facing.

..............Unit Defence .................Silvan Spearmen
..........Armor Skill Shield ......... Armor Skill Shield TOTAL
Front ..100% 100% 100%............. 4 .....3 ....4 .......11
Sides ..100% 100% 50%............... 4 .....3 ....2 ........9
Rear ...100% ...0 .....0................. 4 .....0 ....0 ........4

Armor Piercing weapons (AP) ignore 50% targets armor.
Missiles weapons ignore Skill and if (AP) 50% target’s armor.
Gunpowder ignores Skill, Shield, and 50% target’s armor.

Regarding unit speed, I will see what the latest TATW update brings, and may consider including them in some fashion then. At the moment, I am thinking of including the above Unit Defence explanation in The PALANTIR.

Thanks for your interest and questions.

[Vifarc]

The explanation of defence is correct as illustrated in the The FAUST and based on my discussions with CAOZ at the time. In RTW (CAUK), shield defence applied only to the front and left side of the unit but this was changed for M2TW and it now applies to both sides of the unit but at 50%.

Then, the tutorial of M2TW (the military adviser in battles) has not been updated, as it says it's best to shoot units at their right side as their shield is to the left...
(The side difference was why historicaly the phalanx were moving drunk, errrr, couldn't help moving shifting instead of strictly forward, as every soldier were looking for the best shield protection.)

[brandybarrel]

Then, the tutorial of M2TW (the military adviser in battles) has not been updated, as it says it's best to shoot units at their right side as their shield is to the left...

I would assume so.

[BetaGun]

thx for this nice guide

[Legionnaire151]

Great work Brandy. + rep for the time you took to compile the information.