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Thread: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

  1. #1

    Default Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    The purpose of this thread is to share impressions & opinions of the new ETW patch when playing without IS. This will provide an IS-players perspective on the new patch, and help Quixote best adapt future versions of IS to this patch. (Since many of the people on this board are probably trying the patch along with IS, this will also give them an idea of what the patched vanilla AI is like.)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Playing as: GB
    Difficulty: VH/M
    Current Turn: 8
    Naval Invasions: none so far, will update
    Campaign AI: definitely not passive anymore
    Battle AI: TBD
    Stability: good so far, no CTDs yet
    Performance: seems better
    First thing I noticed right off the bat is the passive CAI issue seems to have been fixed. Turn 1 and both Cherokee and Iroquois declared war on the Thirteen Colonies. Wars have also broken out on mainland Europe, including Poland attacking Austria, my ally. (Although even in vanilla the Poland/Austria/Prussia area was usually the one area with constant fighting.)

    Second huge thing I noticed is that the minister traits have been completely reworked. While many of the old traits remain, I'm seeing many powerful traits that I've never seen before. I really like the new traits for a few reasons: (1) they seem to reflect the tensions of the political+social situation at the time, and (2) they have a big impact but often involve real tradeoffs (i.e. the trait will really help in one area but really hurt in another). For example, one of my ministers starting with a trait called "Absolute Capitalist" (or something along those lines) which had a +2 or +3 to Treasury Admin but a -2 to Nobility Happiness. This definitely reflects the tensions of the time between the middle-class, capitalist bourgeoisie and the landed nobility.

    Third, it does seem like the performance of the game on the campaign map is better in general. Previously, the campaign map would sometimes be very slow to respond when I did certain things - especially when I clicked on fleets or ports, moved fleets, or clicked on the capital city. Now the overall performance seems far less buggy and laggy, which is awesome, but we'll see if this keeps up as the game progresses.

    The unit costs/stats and the building costs/stats appear more-or-less the same as before... no major changes that I've noticed yet. (I am definitely missing the increased unit and building costs of IS.)

    Currently on: ~Turn 8
    (will update as game progresses)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Playing as: SpainDifficulty: VH/VHCurrent Turn: 10
    Naval Invasions: none
    Campaign AI: Did not get war early like I normally do.
    Battle AI: TBD
    Stability: no CTDs yet

    Couple things I noticed. Could be wrong but Spain has fewer ships. Looks like I am missing 1 ship in the Europe fleet and one in the American fleet.

    I also did not have the moors, Itialian states or Genoa start a war with me. Normally by turn 3 or 4 I am at war with all three. Also the UP would not trade Flanders for that Island in America like they normally would. I guess this is a good thing, makes it harder.

    I attacked the pebulo nations and the AI seems to be a lot better. They came out to meet me when I landed and they lost and retreated to their city. They re enforced their city and I attacked it and lost.

    Also the Barbary Pirates seem to be attacking stuff and raiding trade routes. They even attacked my port in Spain itself.

    Did see the AI start several wars though with itself which is cool. Saw Austria start a war with the turks which used to never happen early for me.

    One more thing i noticed besides the missing ships was Sardinia had its mine and vinyard already built to level 1. I could of swore they needed to be built before.
    Last edited by Gunny123; April 29, 2009 at 06:04 PM.

  4. #4
    Privates's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Playing as: United Provinces Difficulty: VH/VH Current Turn: 10
    Naval Invasions: To be seen! (British ships transporting army through channel!)
    Campaign AI: Aggressive
    Battle AI: TBD
    Stability: No CTD
    Performance: Turn changes fast at first, beginning to slow down it seems. Otherwise normal.

    Right off the bat first turn Ai Prussia goes to war with Austria and captures province linking east with west prussia (forgot province name). After several turns Prussia continues on a path of destruction showing no mercy to Poland-Lithuania, rolling up her western provinces leaving only 1 in Belorussia. Russia has had enough and declares war on Prussia around turn 5. Still, Prussia boorocked Poland.

    Russia took Crimea after turn 1 but the resurfaced after turn 2. Russia took Courland and vanquished them (could have been Prussia though I forget).

    Cherokee nations also went to war early on with 13 Colonies after turn 1.

    Lastly, Marathas aggressively pushing the Mughals northwards up the sub-continent. Currently captured about half. Consensus: Vanilla AI is much more aggressive this time around. Pretty dirty.

    I built up a full stack in Rotterdam and decided to push the dirty Spaniards out of Flanders. I declared war and called on Westphalia and my allies to assist. Westphalia built up its own stack early on so I wanted to see if they would throw in the gauntlet. As it seems they likey the boom boom because when Spain's militia army sallied out of Brussels and were defeated by my full stack - the remainder of the defeated retreating back into the city - Westphalia swept in and took the city right infront of me! My army was forced to retreat back to Rotterdam with nothing to show for the brief campaign. Damn!

    One more thing: I noticed a small British fleet of about 4 ships transporting a half stack through the English Channel! Must be going for an invasion somewhere, I'll report back when I find out anything further, but it looks at least as though the AI can put armies in fleets now! Yippee!!!
    "To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. Sun Tzu

  5. #5

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Playing as: Sweden VH/H
    Turn: 40
    Naval invasions: None so far
    Campaign AI: Much improved. It acts very much like it did in IS 1.68, but the nations are better at holding on to conquered provinces once they're taken. In my current campaign, Austria has taken all Ottoman posessions in Europe, and Russia is slowly eating up Poland and me at the same time.
    Battle AI: Very much improved. Sieges are not broken anymore for instance - courland almost took one of my forts with only four line infantry. In pre-patch vanilla they would have routed when climbing the walls! AI shows much better tactics on the field as well although positioning their units still needs some work.
    Stability: Excellent, No CTD yet. And no more graphic glitches!

    So far two thumbs up for CA. Cant wait for the next IS-version that tweaks the AI even better!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    I'll try Prussia but after deleting the IS startpos and lua, Steamis taking ages to replace it. Must be thousands of others downloading.I usually get pretty fast dnld speed.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Playing the Ottomans, M/H, I notice immediately that the campaign AI is more aggressive than it was in vanilla and IS. Even in vanilla the Minor Factions would quickly attack, but Majors tended to sit tight. In fact I ended my first Ottoman campaign in vanilla prematurely because the European powers wouldn't attack even 30 years into the campaign, with all my European provinces undefended.

    Well, that has changed -- my first try Austria quickly declared war. Started a second campaign, placated Austria with some money, but Poland attacked the Crimean Khanate in 1701, which I had never seen before. Persia also attacked me, but that's not unusual -- this aggressiveness from the major factions is something new though.



  8. #8

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Played only ten years on H/H as russia whom I'm also not too familiar with except conquering, but there's been plenty of action from the start. Not sure if the AI is a lot more active or just gung-ho at this point, but the AI means business when it declares war. What I missed the most so far from the latest version + IS is overall unit/ship/building costs, even on VH the increased unit cost from the patch is not so very high and I also wonder if the higher cost model from the patch only affects the player. Especially for ships it's good for the game world as a whole to have fewer ships running about. The economy is somewhat reworked though so quite a bit of analysis might be necessary.

    Musket fire was the next thing I missed, naturally. And the reworked morale model.
    Last edited by mkk; April 29, 2009 at 08:35 PM.
    You drunken spinning mule, you!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Agree with mkk -- really missing the IS cost structure. The campaign AI does seem much more challenging though. I think this is only good news for IS...



  10. #10
    HopliteLysander's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    My Indiamen at trade nodes are now getting attacked by other nations and pirates, looks like naval ai has been somewhat improved

  11. #11

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Trade nodes attacked? You 100% sure?



  12. #12

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Sweden H/M

    20 years in.

    Denmark didn't attack me. I thought that was odd, but fine, because Poland did. However, because at the time Poland was at war with Prussia, and Prussia took that northernmost Polish territory, I couldn't find a way to get to where they were. So I took out Courland. The very next turn Russia DOWed me, but didn't do anything (presumably because they were also at war with Prussia). 1707 the USA was founded in Maine. I thought they were only able to emerge in Boston before? Before too long the USA was at war with both France and Great Britain, but not the 13 colonies. Austria went after the Ottomans, and took out everything west of Constantinople/Istanbul. I managed to get Moscow, Karelia, and Astrakhan before feeling sorry for Russia and offering a peace treaty for two of their techs, which they gladly accepted. That turn Prussia DOWed me. Now Poland is down to one territory, and as much as I try getting them to sign a peace treaty, even offering them much of their territory back, they simply aren't accepting. Oh, and at some point they went after Austria as well. Which means that Poland is now at war with everyone, and suffering for it.

    Battles are...different. Very little gunfire. So far, of those that I've played and not auto-resolved, they consisted of the AI charging my line, and me flanking them with 4 units of cavalry. Battle over. Norwegian Ski Troops don't skirmish away. Not sure if it's all irregulars or not.

    The most fun I had was watching some of my cannon get knocked out by Russian counter-battery fire.

    Two ship battles so far, both against Prussia. The first was them with a brig, a sloop, and half a dozen light galleys vs. my starting fleet, which was a fifth rate (admiral), sixth rate, brig, and sloop. Their brig was sunk, everything else captured. I sold the galleys for cash, which I desperately needed. The second fight was my starting fleet + the captured sloop vs. a dozen? indiamen. Captured all but one, which was sunk. More cash for me. Don't know if boardings are still bugged or not, because I didn't get the chance. Every time I tried, they surrendered before I could get a sloop in line.

  13. #13
    Chevalier IX's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    I just want to add a little something concerning the battles if i may from my own observations,and i implore others to pay attention to this as well...in my expereince I have noticed that the ai has chosen their tactics not only based upon unit composition but also upon the conditions of the field selected for the fray.by this i primarily mean the weather itself.I have noticed that in inclement conditions the ai is much more prone to close for contest of bayonet,where as in conditions of fair weather they are content to shoot it out with me(although they have shown a tendency to favour the bayonet depending on the faction I deal with,which could be tied to the personality files that were discovered earlier on but not yet modded,perhaps they are factored now)just a minor observation on my part,sorry if this could be considered OT but it seems something that should be noted

  14. #14

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Hi
    First impression is that on the campaign the whole thing moves much faster each turn.
    The ai is now much bettter you no longer see large stacks just moving backwards and forwards.
    The sea battles are much better especially controlling your own fleet in formation, I like the idea of the chevrons showing you where the track will go before you can initiate the next turn etc.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryfunk View Post
    Agree with mkk -- really missing the IS cost structure. The campaign AI does seem much more challenging though. I think this is only good news for IS...
    I am finding that I have to change, to a large extent, how I play with the new patch, most notably,
    it is much harder to build infrastructure and armies/navies at the same time. Before the patch, I was able to build some troops AND some buildings. This is all much harder now and seems to me, leading to a slower start.

    I have been playing as the United Provinces on Hard Campaign/Medium Battles.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    I think CA went abit overboard trying to make it more difficult. The war hungry AI, threat of naval invasions, the threat of trade nodes being attacked, plus the immensely nerfed economy, it's a bit harsh to take in all at once.

    I managed to snatch several protectorates early as France, and I still get dows everywhere(god I hate the natives...let them take a province and you have to build it all over again) as well as being piss poor. Dunno if Q can help tune the aggression down a notch?

    :edit: woot 1000 post!

  17. #17
    gord96's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    edit. figured out my problem.
    Last edited by gord96; April 30, 2009 at 12:19 PM.

  18. #18
    Eusebius86's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    I wanted to examine everyone's complaints about the AI being overly aggressive and try a campaign on Easy, to see if it was related to difficulty. I normally play H/H...

    Playing as: Austria
    Difficulty: Easy/Normal
    Current Turn: 16
    Naval Invasions: none so far. But playing as Austria, so wouldn't be able to see if there were any...
    Campaign AI: Poland declared war on me turn 5. Prussia turn 14. They are making good on their decelerations, and are sending good size stacks against my cities. Prussia has taken 2 Polish cities and Saxony over so far. Sweden declared war on Poland around turn 10.
    Battle AI: haven't noticed any changes, yet. But have only played 2 battles. Will update.
    Stability: No ctd's.
    Performance: No changes. However, I think the sound glitches are better...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Playing as Britain Hard Campaign Setting -

    Agree with above post many more indian wars and more powerful ministers. Theres a big french army embarked in a 6 ship navy of the coast of ireland... an uneasy truce is still in Place, Looks quiet a bit more dynamic than before patch.

    Stabilty - Had a few CTD when merging an army into a city (new) seems to happen if iu changed vid settings bfre game....

    Just merged IS 1.07 with no tracers and smoke an Blood full, and going to continue campaign see if it all works sweet.

    Ive heard theres a shadow bug for many ati users, but so far i havnt got it, maybe ecause my drivers are about a month old not sure.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Patch Impressions - Vanilla (No IS)

    Playing as: Prussia vh/vh
    Turn: 15 and ditching this one
    Naval invasions: None so far
    Campaign AI: It's different, that's for sure. A lot more aggressive. By turn 7 or 8 it seemed that everyone was at war with everyone. I am now at war with every neighbor and they are at war with themselves too. When I look at the map, all I see is burning buildings. Trade spots in trade theaters are occupied by pirates... wth?
    Battle AI: Better then before but still broken in my opinion. Lot of dancing around instead of fighting. Battles are still way to easy because the BAI can't coordinate. Now the BAI attacks with full stacks but once on the battlefield, it's pure chaos and he sends units almost one by one on suicide runs. My single full stack defended against 3 full stacks on 3 attacks on AI turn. At VH, I should have died eventually by the 2nd or 3th attempt. And no I'm no military genius haha. Autoresolve is totally useless. It's like praying and rolling the dice.
    Stability:No crash

    I'm reainstalling IS tonight. I had a really nice game going as France before this patch, I'll continue it and see.

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