Suggestions for new content for RR/RC?

[Ichon]

Retraining costs for a unit in regards to weapon upgrades (the additional chevrons) should not cost the original amount of the unit, which it currently does. Armor upgrades are at a reasonable rate right now and the chevrons should be too. Chevron upgrades should cost something like 1/10 the unit cost, or at least match the balance of the armor upgrade.

I know that involves manually editing every unit in the edu, I'm happy to edit our current edu if someone assists

I am not sure I agree with that. Since in this era we aren't talking about the state or the King when he raises troops to pay for all their arms. The troops provide most everything themselves though the state may assist at times. To completely re-equip a unit with superior arms would be fairly expansive.

The prices changed as time went on- the lower cost of gunpowder weapons in fact contributed to the rise of state equipped national armies as did industrial production driving costs down.

[smitty]

I'll assist. But let's wait for the update so we don't have to do it twice.

Good call, and thanks!

I am not sure I agree with that. Since in this era we aren't talking about the state or the King when he raises troops to pay for all their arms. The troops provide most everything themselves though the state may assist at times. To completely re-equip a unit with superior arms would be fairly expansive.

The prices changed as time went on- the lower cost of gunpowder weapons in fact contributed to the rise of state equipped national armies as did industrial production driving costs down.

Ok, so maybe even something like 1/4 the cost could be justified based on what you just said, certainly not 100% of the cost though. The way I see it, that initial cost represents the cost of recruiting people from different walks of life (as well as the costs involved with time spent recruiting), giving them training (when applicable), the cost of their initial gear including horses, arms and armor. It seems to me upgrading a company's weapons would hardly cost the same as everything that went into initially bringing them into service in the first place, especially if original costs included weapons (yes I understand most armies had their own weapons to begin with, but this doesn't mean replacing those weapons costs the same as the entire unit itself).

I should probably add we're only talking chevron upgrades, not weapon upgrades. It takes 3 chevon upgrades to equal an increase of 1 damage... so you're currently looking at a unit cost times 3 before they actually have a better weapon. And who is to say those chevrons represent new weapons anyhow? Perhaps it's meant more along the lines of what chevrons were usually granted for in the first place: more war-time experience, ability and training. One could even argue the unit never gets a nicer weapon, simply increases their damage from training and learning how to use their weapons more appropriately.

[Ichon]

I thought you were talking about specifically guilds or global traits that give +1 xp since the first increase gives the melee bonus that has the cost to retrain. Further xp bonus after that the costs are easily justified as the replacements are younger men taking their fathers place or being promoted/recruited into the unit. It depends a bit if we are talking feudal or professional.

[smitty]

I should add one reason I'd like to see the costs reduced is that the current recruitment mechanics are rather broken in regards to the +1 xp recruitment. I hate paying for a brand new feudal knight, only to see once he's hired I now have to pay his whole cost once more simply to add that 1 xp... Very frustrating, as the game mechanics ought to add that 1 xp upon recruitment instead of forcing a retrain

[k/t]

Always train and retrain units as the last thing you do before pressing End Turn.

[Ichon]

Yeah... the game does add the xp if you don't reload or add/change recruitment.

[smitty]

Yeah... the game does add the xp if you don't reload or add/change recruitment.

If you have a battle from another faction attacking during end-turn doesn't that ruin it too?

[k/t]

No. Those attacks happen during someone else's turn, so you're ok.

[Carlos193]

could it be possible that the eastern and cuman factions get a new roster or at least a little improvement? becuase imo I feel stainless steel is a little europe-centric

[Aigre]

I'd love to see a version made compatible for SS 6.4

[k/t]

I'd love to see PB again.

PB, have you seen this? http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...9#post10842759

Or this. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...m+of+jerusalem

[nebunelux]

I'd love to see PB again.

PB, have you seen this? http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...9#post10842759

Or this. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...m+of+jerusalem

That Unit roster is just superb.
I must say it would be a great addition to SS and RR/RC.

[Dantman40]

Consider reducing the morale for most units. As it stands now even mediocre units will fight almost to the last man. This is not historical, and in most battles the majority of even defeated armies were still alive after the fighting was over. With the current artificially high morale numbers, unless you have your opponent greatly outclassed, a typical victory is a Pyhrric one, with 50% or more of your own forces lost. I don't think any but the most elite forces would behave like that, and then not often.

Also the current high morale system encourages a single all out assault that decides everything. In reality most battles involved waves of attacks and multiple attempts to jockey for the upper hand. The longer battles and longer survivability of units is a hugh improvement over vanilla, but every unit shouldn't behave like the Spartans at Thermopolae.

[k/t]

It's pretty rare for me to have such high casualties. What kind of situation are we talking about? Are you surrounding the enemy?

If the morale was lower, I'd be even more encouraged to make an all-out assault in order to get the whole enemy army to run at once.

[Judeman266]

Janissary Heavy Infantry wear light mail, then heavy mail. However, if you look at the texture they wear a steel harness (cuirass?) around their chest. Shouldn't that count as a aketon or something, instead of them only having stats for heavy mail/

[Judeman266]

I don't understand why Tabardariyya are listed as early professionals while Mamluks and Royal Mamluks are late professionals. If anything, the Tabardariyya with BC textures (used in the compilation) should be called Mamluk Tabardariyya (elite mamluk axemen, late professionals, equipped with heavy lamellar, then late lamellar), while the Tabardariyya from SS 6.4 (should be superior arab axemen, urban professionals, equipped with heavy mail, then splint) are a totally different unit. This would work since late professional availability is decreased.

[Ichon]

There are some inconsistencies but its a big work to change them since that leads to noticing more and changing more and finally you are making your own mod which will have its own inconsistencies probably...

[k/t]

Modifying the Siphonatores? http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=566125

And changing the quality bonuses would be good, too. We can keep the total amount of bonus points but skew the distribution towards defense:

Superior: +1/+2
Elite: +2/+4
Exceptional: +3/+5

Superior spear: +0/+2
Elite spear: +1/+3
Exceptional spear: +2/+4


This will prolong battles and increase the staying power of good units pitted against crappy ones. A lower attack isn't a problem anyway, since chevrons will raise it but not defense (because CA is stupid and decided to remove a logical feature in Kingdoms).

[Philozoraptor]

Modifying the Siphonatores? http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=566125

And changing the quality bonuses would be good, too. We can keep the total amount of bonus points but skew the distribution towards defense:

Superior: +1/+2
Elite: +2/+4
Exceptional: +3/+5

Superior spear: +0/+2
Elite spear: +1/+3
Exceptional spear: +2/+4


This will prolong battles and increase the staying power of good units pitted against crappy ones. A lower attack isn't a problem anyway, since chevrons will raise it but not defense (because CA is stupid and decided to remove a logical feature in Kingdoms).

So I made certain modifications to siphonatores to make them as realistic as possible without making them useless. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=585543
The files from my second post are correct ones. I also suggest increasing their ammo to 10, increasing their dmg to 30 from 7 and their autoresolve hp from 3 to 10 for the sake of realistic autoresolve. Their BP value should be removed too (from unit EDU).

[Ichon]

What 2nd post?