Suggestions for new content for RR/RC?

[lordskater121]

it would be cool if you did something like they did for this mod
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=498

[Caesar Clivus]

it would be cool if you did something like they did for this mod
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=498

In what regards exactly? You linked to their entire forum

[hippacrocafish]

I say remove Late Pikemen, Late Arquebusiers, and Late Musketeers from factions that aren't supposed to have good late period armies (Ex: Norway). Or just remove them completely so you can have more unit slots, you only get them in the end game anyway and regular Pikemen/musketeers should be able to handle the job. I think Musketeers should only be available to the factions that are supposed to have good Late period armies (Milan, Venice, Aragon, Spain, Portugal, and Turks) and all other factions should just get Arquebuses, that would actually give the supposedly "Late period juggernauts" an actual advantage.

Also, with the removal of Italian spear militia the Italian factions seem to have lost their advantage, I'd like to see a unit that's similar to the senior militia units of Novgorod and Kiev included in the rosters of Milan, Venice, and the Papal States. I don't think Sicily needs it since, I'd assume, they weren't a very rich kingdom (Duchy, whatever) and they already have Sicilio-Norman knights.

[lordskater121]

In what regards exactly? You linked to their entire forum

my fault

here is the info about it. it was my second choice of a mod
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=141833

[k/t]

What militia unit got removed and what took its place?

[Point Blank]

I say remove Late Pikemen, Late Arquebusiers, and Late Musketeers from factions that aren't supposed to have good late period armies (Ex: Norway). Or just remove them completely so you can have more unit slots, you only get them in the end game anyway and regular Pikemen/musketeers should be able to handle the job. I think Musketeers should only be available to the factions that are supposed to have good Late period armies (Milan, Venice, Aragon, Spain, Portugal, and Turks) and all other factions should just get Arquebuses, that would actually give the supposedly "Late period juggernauts" an actual advantage.

Also, with the removal of Italian spear militia the Italian factions seem to have lost their advantage, I'd like to see a unit that's similar to the senior militia units of Novgorod and Kiev included in the rosters of Milan, Venice, and the Papal States. I don't think Sicily needs it since, I'd assume, they weren't a very rich kingdom (Duchy, whatever) and they already have Sicilio-Norman knights.

Late Pikemen/Arquebusiers are necessary to reflect the rapid advancement of technology and tactics in the late 15th century onwards.

Italian factions get Pavise Spear Militia.

[k/t]

They already had those. Did you take out the spear militia they have in the beginning? The ones with the round shields that people complained about?

[hippacrocafish]

Late Pikemen/Arquebusiers are necessary to reflect the rapid advancement of technology and tactics in the late 15th century onwards.

Italian factions get Pavise Spear Militia.

Pavise Spear militia aren't that good, but all the other factions that are supposed to have average militia have units that could whoop any italian militia unit. The French have Voulge militia, the Russian factions have senior militia and Novgorod Home guard, England has Militia Sergeants, the Spanish factions have swordsmen militia, the Turks and Egyptians have Saracen militia. The Italians seem to have gotten the short end of the stick on the militia front, mind you that their next best militia (Pavise/Genoese crossbows) only appear later in the game while the other factions all get their militia at the start of Late Era.

EDIT: The russians also get Berdiche militia, forgot about them.

EDIT 2: Damn, I just remembered some more. The Scottish also get Highland Pike Militia and Heavy Pike Militia, Cumans get Horse Militia and Kasogi/Senior Kasogi militia, the Danes get Swordstaff militia, and I'm probably forgetting some even now. Almost every faction has better militia than the Italians! Except maybe Hungary, Lithuania, and Poland (And even Hungary gets Pavise Spearmen Militia). How can you say that their militia is some of the best?

[hippacrocafish]

They already had those. Did you take out the spear militia they have in the beginning? The ones with the round shields that people complained about?

I miss the round shields.

Although I love Pavise Shields, and I always hated that only Hungary got Pavise Spearmen, so I guess it kind of balances out. Now if I could just get my Pavise Crossbows I could run amok with my all-Pavise militia.

[k/t]

Sicily can do that.

[Point Blank]

They already had those. Did you take out the spear militia they have in the beginning? The ones with the round shields that people complained about?

The Urban Spear Militia used to have round shields, now they don't, they have shields more like armored sergeants or spear militia.

[Point Blank]

Pavise Spear militia aren't that good, but all the other factions that are supposed to have average militia have units that could whoop any italian militia unit. The French have Voulge militia, the Russian factions have senior militia and Novgorod Home guard, England has Militia Sergeants, the Spanish factions have swordsmen militia, the Turks and Egyptians have Saracen militia. The Italians seem to have gotten the short end of the stick on the militia front, mind you that their next best militia (Pavise/Genoese crossbows) only appear later in the game while the other factions all get their militia at the start of Late Era.

EDIT: The russians also get Berdiche militia, forgot about them.

The Italian States start with Urban Spear Militia, while others start with Spear Militia. They also get Pavise Spear Militia when most other factions get Urban Spear Militia.

[hippacrocafish]

The Italian States start with Urban Spear Militia, while others start with Spear Militia. They also get Pavise Spear Militia when most other factions get Urban Spear Militia.

I can see that you will not be convinced. Moorish Urban militia are much better too.

How about incorporating Xenophonia? Are you familiar with that mod?

[hippacrocafish]

Bear with me on this idea, I've got another one for Genoa and Venice, but it's not to just make them stronger it's more about accuracy really.

I'm no expert on history, but I'm going to assume that Merchant-run Republics didn't have Knights like France or Poland, so I always felt that them having Feudal knights and Feudal Foot Knights was a bit weird. My idea would be to remove the Feudal units, rename the Italian Cavalry militia "Italian Nobles" then beef them up a bit. Make them slightly weaker than Feudal Knights, but with slightly better armor. They could be trained in both Cities and castles, esentially taking the place of both Feudal Knights and Cavalry militia.

Here's my suggested stats:

Italian Nobles

Quality: Superior
Unit Type: Urban Militia

Attrib: Good morale
Good stamina
Can form wedge


Descr: The rich City-states of northern Italy have thrived because of their extensive trade contacts throughout the known world and because of this the richer citizens can afford the best armor and weapons in times of war. Although their equipment is obviously surperior the martial prowess of these volunteer soldiers wavers in the presence of trained warriors.

Attk: 5
Chrg:11
Armor: 8
Shield:5
Def Skill: 2

Recruit cost: 800-850 Florins

[k/t]

They shouldn't have better armor than Feudal Knights.

[hippacrocafish]

They shouldn't have better armor than Feudal Knights.

I just thought since the Italian cities had an overall richer population (And the Italians became famous for making plate armor later on) that their rich citizens would buy the absolute best armor available, despite the fact that they can't fight worth a damn.

What would you suggest for their stats? Just weaker in every aspect in comparison to Feudal Knights?

EDIT: Feudal Knights have 8 armor anyway.

I'd say 8-7 is reasonable for Italian nobles.

[k/t]

People for whom warfare was a way of life would also buy the best armor possible.

[hippacrocafish]

People for whom warfare was a way of life would also buy the best armor possible.

But if the lord that the knight served controlled a poor or backwards country their lord couldn't pay them enough to afford the best armor, and I highly doubt that any of the smiths in other countries could match the Italian's armour. Hungarian Nobles exist for this exact reason, their description says that their nobility was too poor for western-style armor, so they stuck to their horse archery.

And, from what I've read, the Italians were among the first to develop plate armour in the 13th century (When the Late Era campaign begins) along with the Germans so I don't think that it would be inaccurate for their armor to be better while sacrificing attack power.

EDIT: Ah, screw it. I'll do it myself.

EDIT 2: Point Blank: Can you tell me how to replace Feudal Knights with Italian Nobles in export_descr_buildings? I used to know how to edit it, but all those additions you've made to it complicate things. I'd also like to have Italian MAA replace Italian Nobles in both cities and Castles when the event triggers it.

[napoleonic]

how about a kind of tweak for the AoR?

european knights should be more common in europe than in egypt, so say you're france and you captured gaza..., you could still train mailed knights in gaza but it would have more 'replenishment waiting turns' than in bordeaux....

northern and eastern european knights should also be more rare than it western counterparts...

how about making men at arms more varied (in term of looks, and equipment) too? as it is now, they're basically all the same across europe... surely that does not reflect history?

as in the other thread, we definitely need more islamic factions, not just more, but I think they should be more aggressive toward europeans than fighting each others.... adding another faction to challenge khwazer is also most welcome....

maybe just a big coincidence, but in my games whether it was vanilla, older mods, older stainless steel and 6.2 RR/RC... islamic factions almost never dominating the game.... dunno why....

[Point Blank]

Bear with me on this idea, I've got another one for Genoa and Venice, but it's not to just make them stronger it's more about accuracy really.

I'm no expert on history, but I'm going to assume that Merchant-run Republics didn't have Knights like France or Poland, so I always felt that them having Feudal knights and Feudal Foot Knights was a bit weird. My idea would be to remove the Feudal units, rename the Italian Cavalry militia "Italian Nobles" then beef them up a bit. Make them slightly weaker than Feudal Knights, but with slightly better armor. They could be trained in both Cities and castles, esentially taking the place of both Feudal Knights and Cavalry militia.

Here's my suggested stats:

Italian Nobles

Quality: Superior
Unit Type: Urban Militia

Attrib: Good morale
Good stamina
Can form wedge


Descr: The rich City-states of northern Italy have thrived because of their extensive trade contacts throughout the known world and because of this the richer citizens can afford the best armor and weapons in times of war. Although their equipment is obviously surperior the martial prowess of these volunteer soldiers wavers in the presence of trained warriors.

Attk: 5
Chrg:11
Armor: 8
Shield:5
Def Skill: 2

Recruit cost: 800-850 Florins

All factions already have 'strong' and 'weak' unit categories. For most castle units, Genoa and Venice have them as 'weak'. What that means is that their replacement rate is about 2/3 normal, whereas 'strong' categories (eg English archer units) replace 50% faster.