Permission issues

[+Mr.Crow+]

its probably the area what their mod will cover

You're right...It's the area that our mod will cover

[Polycarpe]

Hi, I'm asking permission to use the hungary units from this mod to my historical and balance submod for SS; BG submod. You'll credited very much. Thank you.

[Csatádi]

You're right...It's the area that our mod will cover

He meant do your job, please make some real work and when you are advancing come back and show your work, the map of the Carpathian basin and other, more detailed plans in your topic. You may find a lot of help about Hungarian maps here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142050
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=383152

***

BG submod

Do you have a link?
Anyway, if you use the standard SS map, you should make some changes to make Hungary look normal. TaronQuinn did it, check here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=383152

[Polycarpe]

Sorry, I forgot the link here it is: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ight=BG+SUBMOD

[RollingWave]

Hello, I'm making a submod that generally tried to overhaul the Stainless steel roster to have more historical accuratcy, currently i have made massive overhauls to most of the islamic rosters using BC models, and i have some ideas on most of the other rosters, but for the Hungarian roster it would really help if I could use some of the Maygar mod's models.

I am particularly interested in the Vlach units, and Gyalogos Tegzesek models, along with the Pavise Spearmens and Városi Lándzsások

Given the EDU limitations of SS, the current roster i'm looking at for Hungary is generally... (mostly with early era in mind)

Fedual Knights
Dismounted Feudal knights

Székely infantry (probably axe wielding) and cavalry (horse archers)
Vlach spearman / axemans (pure AOR / rebel units)
Sergeant Spearman / Swordsmen Sergeants (mostly due to unit limit here.. to represent the royal castle serfs.)
Ispan (local leaders, militia leaders, medium cavalries)
Magyar archers
crossbowmens
Nomad tribal cavalry (aor unit, i cut down the different ethnics mostly since their styles were still similar and in a large map would be better represented by just one unit)


http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=405904

In the longer run (after i finish al the rosters) I'm also planning to make rather drastic changes to the way recruitment system works , first by adding village / town / city that is builable by castles (and thus giving them access to many city buildings) and vice versa giving the town a fedual tree where they can still gain access to some fedual units (at a cost of lower economic efficency of course)

And a more drastic change would involve adding in cultural settlements, so that all settlment start with a type of cultural settlement... and if they're not held by their original culture (for example of moors hold a french settlement) obviously will have a more negative effects... but you can demolish the settlements and start migrating your own people there.

So mayI have permission to use some of those unit models?

[shikaka]

Ispan (local leaders, militia leaders, medium cavalries)

That's not a good idea. Ispán was a governing official of the king. It is like the HRE had a 'herzog' unit on the battlefield.
Definietly not militia leaders...

Vlach spearman / axemans (pure AOR / rebel units)

If you want a vlach non-spear infantry, 2-handed mace would be better. That is a traditional weapon of vlach serfs/peasants.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[RollingWave]

hmmm thanks for the info.. I can't seem to find a good 2H mace around though.. the only one i could find is the BC Makuria 2H mace which has a very distinc african look.

So if i'm limited by unit slots, what units would you suggest for me to definately throw in ?

[shikaka]

hmmm thanks for the info.. I can't seem to find a good 2H mace around though.. the only one i could find is the BC Makuria 2H mace which has a very distinc african look.

The Tsardom team made a few good looking vlach units.
I don't know if they are willing to lend them, since the mod seems to be on hold (= not released).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So if i'm limited by unit slots, what units would you suggest for me to definately throw in ?

If you have trouble with unit slots in general, you could always scrap militia units.
Like militia and spear milita is pretty much the same, you can scrap 1.


You could also scrap the peasant unit. I cannot imagine a general recruiting peasants with pitchforks into his army, and using that unit as castle garrison. (I can imagine they were used in castle defense, but then they were given proper weaponry from the stock of the castle) Peasant rebels should be represented with other units imho...


There is a lineup suggestion in the2.14 released topic by Döme and Csatádi:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Skipped units

-Battlefield assassins: unhistorical.
-Transylvanian peasants: skipped already, no reason for this unit.
-Slav levy: also skipped already. There were Slavs in the Hungarian army but there were no separate Slav units. Spearmen will wear mixed Hungarian-Slav clothes. We see no reason to represent separate Slav
and Hungarian spearmen units with the same stats.
-Croat axemen: there were no such units.
-Hungarian nobles. Their role is replaced.
-Bosnian archers disappeared because the Magyar archers with their composite bows were more significant. Actually we didn’t hear about any special Bosnian archers.


Added or modified units to the actual rooster

Light Cavalry

-Pechenegs: horse archers with small maces. They will be available in small numbers till the Mongol invasion.
-Székelys (Szeklers): horse archers. They will be the archer specialists.
-Cuman Horse Archers: from ~1240 to ~1400
-Mounted Crossbowmen: first known appearance in 1238, in the late era they representing the czech light cavalry used constantly by the hungarian kings and governors
-Peasant Horse Archers (militia portalis): late horse archers, a new unit raised historically by king Sigismund. They will be worse units than the ancestors and will have no armor.
-Serbian hussars: the first Hussars of the high era

Medium Cavalry

-Light Lancers like mounted sergeants.
-Royal Warriors/Servienses (former hungarian nobles): horse archers with a lance, shield and leather armor, ready to melee.
-Cuman Notables: armed with mace and very heavy armor like Chivalry Knights.

Heavy Cavalry

-Mailed Knights
-Baronial Cavalry (Royal Banderium): use maces and their upgrade wear German styled full gothic armor.

Light Infantry

-Foot Archers: armed with composite bows. We could call them also Dismounted Magyar Cavalry or castle guard archers or such but this name is shorter. Needed in siege.

Heavy and Medium Infantry

-Swordsmen: high era, they wear chainmail.
-Armored Halberdiers: late era, castle unit
-Hooked gunners: the heavy arquebuse with a hugh range and firepower, keeping away the enemy units from thier positions, but they sacraficing mobility for manageing their diabolical weapons
-Pavise Spearmen: far better than before. Armored and very slow unit, ideal for blocking enemy cavalry charge. The upgraded unit uses awl pikes, too.

[RollingWave]

Yeah I already cleared a lot of spots via that method, but my issue is that I need to spread the cleared spots over the whole roster and can't just focus on a few factions.

Hmmm looking at this roster I think I have enough of ideas on the rosters... something like...

Fedual :

Early : Knights (greater nobels) and Szerviens (lesser nobles)
Late : Royal Banderium and normal knights

Cavalry
Mounted Sergants
Nomad tribal cavalry (merged Pechang and all the other different ethnic as one unit here, AOR unit)
Székelys
militia portalis (later on )
Mounted Crossbow (later on)
Stepp Nobles ( AOR)

Infantry
Sergeant spearmen (mostly representing royal castle serf)
Pavise spearmen (late)
Székelys infantry
Vlach auxilliaries (two unit maybe, AOR and rebels)
Men at arms (later on)
Halberdier (late)

Range:
Maygar archers
Crossbowmen (slightly later)
Pavise Crossbowmen (later on)
(maybe) auxillary dismounted nomads

[shikaka]

Nomad tribal cavalry (merged Pechang and all the other different ethnic as one unit here, AOR unit)

If you don't have enough unit slots, merge militia/urban militia/arquebus, etc, but representing pecheneg/cuman/magyar cavalry as 1 unit is not good

[RollingWave]

it's not merging pechnegs with cuman / magyar, it's merging them with alans and kazaks mostly ... aka the other lesser politically important nomadic ethnics of the time.

the one thing we need to remember is that the depiction of step nomads fighting only as light horse archer is entirely wrong, first off they deployed a considerable amount of light lancers (or rather that the HAs often doubled as archers, but it's very difficult for archer/ lancers to work properly in MTW2.), and secondly their noblemens were considerablly better armoured, probably enough to rival early knights for the most part (though obviously a smaller overall number).

Thus it would be silly if we depict Pechangs as only light HA and Alans as long light lancers etc... but it would be a very poor allocation of resource in a mod where your constantly reaching the limits of the EDU to have say... 6 unit slot for each of the Pechangs / Alans / Kazaks / Bulgars etc... and THEN we're not even getting to the Cumans and the Nomads working with the Russians.

[RollingWave]

ok, how's this for a vlach mace... I'm also using it for a cuman infantry since I read that they use something like that here...
http://books.google.com/books?id=FEh...litary&f=false

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

errrr so... can I use the units or not? i'm pretty close to finishing everything else on my next version.

[Csatádi]

@RollingWave
@Byzantium guard

We expect the Carpathian basin of your map should be OK. If you don't want to make it yourself you might contact TaronQuinn who made it for his SS submod. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=383152


@RollingWave
Székely infantry wasn't present in the early era. They appeared approximately in the 15th century when they got poorer.
The same with Vlachs. They appeared in the army roughly in the 14th century they might be skipped in early era due their low numbers.

Sergeant Spearman / Swordsmen Sergeants
I'm not sure the western equipment would suit to Hungary but it might be acceptable. Using a lot of infantry would be unhistorical but it is a must in sieges.

Ispan (local leaders, militia leaders, medium cavalries)
I have no idea what they would be. Ispáns could be officers of the units but I'm sure you don't use officers.

Nomad tribal cavalry (aor unit, i cut down the different ethnics mostly since their styles were still similar and in a large map would be better represented by just one unit)
Disillusioning name. In hungary you might skip the Pechenegs and add only the Cumans from 1242 or the arrival of the Mongols. You have a Cuman faction so you surely have Cuman units. Pechenegs disappeared from the sources around the Mongol invasion.

However it is important to put a medium archer cavarly. In our mod they are the Royal Warriors.

On the right a Cuman in yellow kaftan has a Cuman mace from the 14th century.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Polycarpe]

In other words, you grant permission for using your units? I'm working with RW for his submod, we are going to combine ours into one historical roster.

[Csatádi]

Our policy using the Magyar Mod units

1 The map of Hungary have to be correct at least roughly. The chosen settlements should be important historically in the period. The cities have to be Hungarian names. The resources have to be present. The borders have to suit to the period or on the long term borders. We want to see your corrected map.

2 The Hungarian CoA and banners have to be right to the period. Show them.

3 The Hungarian royal family have to be correct. Check Wikipedia.

4 The Hungarian roster of your mod have to be correct and suit to the period. Show it.

5 Hungarian name list which suits to period. Definitely not vanilla names. The name list of the names project mod is wrong because it mixes different periods. The Magyar Mod name list suits especially to the 13th century. It do the job in the 12th century but for former and later periods your mod need a different one.

6 Avoid fantasy countries.

If these are acceptable to you and are ready, show them and we allow to use the Magyar Mod units.

-We don't allow to modify them or to use the parts of the models (for example taking helmets etc.)
-Horses might be skipped if you wish. (Thinking on our coming cavalry.)
-If someone uses your mod our permission is not automatic.
-Insert a link to the Magyar Mod forum where you list the contributors.


***
Our old units in 2.0 can be used freely in noncommercial use.

[RollingWave]

Thanks for the reply Casatadi, I'll see what I can do:

I'm still keeping the Pechengs in the game mainly because a lot of the SS versions run on 2TPY, so even if I set Pechengs to vanish after the early 13th C that's a still a ton of turns to go through.


The nomad tribal cavalries are generally there to depict lesser clans on the steppes, as it's obvious that not all the nomads under the Cuman at their peaks were... Cumans-Kypchaks.... or even of the other major clans (like Bulgars / Pechengs / Alans etc...) there were a large variaty of other clans that basically submit to the strongest power at any given moment.

With you permission I'll add in Royal Castle Serfs instead of the Sergeant units.

I'll take a look at the 2.0 roster first then, for less complication.

[cossacks368]

Hi, I'm making a submod for FA 0.8

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=431973

I want to mark a real Hungary kingdom units in 15th century.

My mod start from 1405 AD , ask for permission to use the hungary units from Magyar Mod .

I'm planning on Battles of the Ottoman–Hungarian Wars and The Hussite Wars (1419-1434) developed when the Catholic Hungarian King, Sigismund of Luxemburg (1368-1437) invaded Bohemia.

I need help for yours ,not just permission. I hunger for that detail events.

Best regard

[Csatádi]

Hi,
just for curiosity do you have an own map? Or will you use FA map?
I may help you with infos.
Btw these issues will be hard to code but not impossible.
You may read our policy to permission in the first post.

[cossacks368]

Hi,
just for curiosity do you have an own map? Or will you use FA map?
I may help you with infos.
Btw these issues will be hard to code but not impossible.
You may read our policy to permission in the first post.

I use FA map with my change ~

I very need yours info for 15th century Hungary kingdom.

~names and historical events ~




I can share this to Magyar Mod .

[Csatádi]

Thanks for the wagon but actually they are our soldiers on them. I'm not planning to use them because they behave silly on the battlefield. They bleed and turn funny.