So... you want to be a commander?

[DARTH VADER]

Seeing the (expected) success of the Commander Edition of DarthMod, makes me wonder... why CA did not offer this from the start? They should have given the opportunity to so many of us, who have good PCs, to play the game as it was designed... epic.

Yes, I know, they could sell some copies to owners of Negrepontes PCs in the villages of Africa ... but we are closing to 2010. The Hi-end systems are almost to any house now. And if in 2012 there is going to be the end of the world, as they say, they should at least give to us the opportunity to see that finally in a TW game.

Ok. Not all have a Hi-End PC. And so what? Put the settings to normal or low and play as you can. This kind of game presses someone to buy a new computer. On the contrary, CA seems to have been pressed by a proportion of the low-end PC market. How large is this nowadays?

Every new title is lowering the total capacity of the maximum available troops in the battlefield, while the TW game itself grows to graphic perfection. TW games are unique. Their potential is much bigger than every final release has managed to accomplish up to now. Still, they manage to be the best game experience for a military history fan + gamer.

PS.
We all come here, collaborate, talk about historic matters, learn more in the proccess... we create things. I finally thank these guys there. We all owe to them to some extend. Our hobby to play a game is enriched by all these new "collateral" benefits which we, of course, have the initiative to work with, but .. in the end... it is The Creative Assembly who granted us with this creative air to breathe.

[Vanquisher]

I was thinking about this earlier A lot of complaining because nothing is perfect but damn look what a slate they have given us, the engine is just unbelievable, especially from a couple of years ago. Nothing quite like it.

[OTZ]

I think that the massive unit sizes is really a problem for the AI...I tried it on a siege, and I gotta say it was not the most fun I've had in a TW game. IMO, medium unit sizes are as close to perfect as you can get with this game.

Good initiative on your part though, but I think CA has the scaling of this game done quite well.

I am also pretty sure that the "high-end PC" market is quite small.

[Montano5]

Well, there is an option to make units normal size or ultra. They may have made some more level: Normal (still normal), Large (the current ultra settings) and Ultra (commander version size). Would be so easy to do

I learn many things reading others comments, about wars in XVIIIth century of course, but also anecdotes, customs and all is very interesting.

So thanks to CA for a great game, thanks to you Darth for making it better, and thanks to you folks, for all the parts you add to make it even better !

[diadok]

Seeing the (expected) success of the Commander Edition of DarthMod, makes me wonder... why CA did not offer this from the start? They should have given the opportunity to so many of us, who have good PCs, to play the game as it was designed... epic.

since RTW, i don't understand why. but it's good that there is no more limits in modding (250 soldiers in MTWII, 240 soldiers in RTW).
for vanilla it's worst : each new game has units sizes decreased (240/160/105 in RTW, 160/120/80 in MTWII, 160/80/60 in ETW)
next game : 120 in infantry units, 80 in missile units, 50 in cavalry units ?

I think that the massive unit sizes is really a problem for the AI...I tried it on a siege, and I gotta say it was not the most fun I've had in a TW game.

i disagree.
AI is absolutly stupid on siege, on "vanilla unit size"... it's just doesn't change.
if the game were done with massive unit sizes by CA, the game's pathfiding would be optimized for this.

(sorry for my english)

[Stoferr]

To be honest i dont think the AI handles the huge scales very good either. I must admit that the Ai could be better, but in commander edition it is.. well.. stupid. I Just did a battle on a map with a town between mine and the opposing army. When our forces met on the middle, in the town, it was impossible to fight. Most units just couldn't be deployet, and it was even worse when trying to deploy several units at one time. And the Ai was even more screwed, i just couldnt make the soldiers stand in a proper line, it just ended up with thousands of men piled together, in one huge caos.

Another thing is that armies simply get too big compared to the size of the battle map. Now, you can drag a huge line of infantry from one end of the map to another, making flanking impossible. Suddenly cavalry is useless, because the only way they can charge the enemy is by attacking right in front of them... Which is stupid.
Actually, all you have to do is dragging your infantry from one end of the map to another. Then just deploy
some artillery behind your line, and then start picking down the enemy.. So much for tactics..

I really like the gameplay of the mod, and i love the ways Darth have improved this game. And indeed, the many soldiers looks good, but due to gameplay reasons, and that i like tactics, i will use the normal Darthmod 1.0 version, and not the commander edition.

[Bob the Insane]

I tried it on a siege, and I gotta say it was not the most fun I've had in a TW game. IMO, medium unit sizes are as close to perfect as you can get with this game.

I had mixed results with a siege battle with the commander version (of course i was the one attacking)...

The extreme unit size seemed very effective at manning the wall and I actually had a artillery shootout against the fort's cannons manned by that AI dispite that fact I didn't move my units from there initial deployment positions until I had knocked some walls down (if only we could get the AI to do the same when it attacked!)...

However once inside the fort the AI appeared to be completely unable to manouvre it's units effectively. Standing around getting shot until they decided to try melee combat...

[cherryfunk]

Seeing the (expected) success of the Commander Edition of DarthMod, makes me wonder... why CA did not offer this from the start? They should have given the opportunity to so many of us, who have good PCs, to play the game as it was designed... epic.

Didn't they? Can't anyone increase the size of units using the size multiplier?

[jumong]

darths post was rather....without empathy

im using regular and editing the size multiplier to 1.5. fits perfectly for me.

[Kennylz]

Well, Darth is the only one who offers this type of mod at the moment (not counting the thread that tutorials how to do this) so it is a special thing, but I see a lot of mods taking advantage of this especially if any of these patches let dual cores work properly and the engine gets optimized. Just a dang fun experience.

[=HighXplosive=]

The principles of formation warfare are not exactly rocket science. Anyone with a decent idea about military tactics will soon grasp all the basic principles of using cavalry, infantry and artillery. Obviously with experience comes best practice.

However, for those of us who have that base understanding and are well versed in our own strategies and ideas of how our own battles should be fought, the challenge becomes routine and therefore no longer a challenge.

That is why having large numbers of units makes for an interesting and more challenging game. When you make a mistake with large numbers of units, your mistakes are more profound. It is also much more difficult to manage a large number of men, something every past general has to deal with. Thus the inherent challenge of having good situation awareness and knowing where your men are at anyone time is stretched to the limits by having greater numbers.

Additionally, as implied from the above posts and by Darth, this is the Total War series. This the the series of game that has a profoundly unique appeal. This has been one of the best series ever made. Personally, I do not enjoy these silly "real time strategies" that involve a few units of men in a so called battle. The abstraction is too obvious for someone like me. A great majority of RTS are mere graphical revisions of the Command & Conquer forumla of "strategy" game. However, everyone knows each "battle" in a C&C-esque game is a mere stepping stone whereas battles in Total War have always meant something. Total War has always been about big (meaningful) battles with lots of soldiers fighting. Regimental combat rather than unit to unit combat (a mere poor abstraction in other games).

Lastly, I really do see Total War as more of a simulation than game. A historical simulator. Believe it or not, before I played Empire I had an idiots understanding of 17th and 18th century warfare, but playing it has prompted me to read up about it in my own time. Total War games are of course also a thinkers series. You really have to have the brains to do what you need to do. It is definitely not a point a click graphics show.

That said, numbers IS the thing that is most neglected by developers these days. The vanity drive for graphics kills many games with great potential. Here, as Total War fans, I'm sure we want more epic, more interesting, more challenging battles rather than another graphics showcase.

I do not want to feel I'm doing border skirmishes all the time. There are Friday pub brawls where I live that are more epic than vanilla Ultra size setting battles.

If I really wanted nice things to look at, I've got plenty of other places (and people ) I can stare at. When I play a game, I want a challenge and to feel immersed. Every Total War battle should look like the Battle of Pelennor Fields in Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. Having 80 poncy cavalry just looks stupid.

That is why I think this mod and the potential of the engine is a godsend (if they can optimise it more and fix the damn bugs!!). Well done again Darth, and shame on you if you do not believe in epic battles.

[DARTH VADER]

The principles of formation warfare are not exactly rocket science. Anyone with a decent idea about military tactics will soon grasp all the basic principles of using cavalry, infantry and artillery. Obviously with experience comes best practice.

However, for those of us who have that base understanding and are well versed in our own strategies and ideas of how our own battles should be fought, the challenge becomes routine and therefore no longer a challenge.

That is why having large numbers of units makes for an interesting and more challenging game. When you make a mistake with large numbers of units, your mistakes are more profound. It is also much more difficult to manage a large number of men, something every past general has to deal with. Thus the inherent challenge of having good situation awareness and knowing where your men are at anyone time is stretched to the limits by having greater numbers.

Additionally, as implied from the above posts and by Darth, this is the Total War series. This the the series of game that has a profoundly unique appeal. This has been one of the best series ever made. Personally, I do not enjoy these silly "real time strategies" that involve a few units of men in a so called battle. The abstraction is too obvious for someone like me. A great majority of RTS are mere graphical revisions of the Command & Conquer forumla of "strategy" game. However, everyone knows each "battle" in a C&C-esque game is a mere stepping stone whereas battles in Total War have always meant something. Total War has always been about big (meaningful) battles with lots of soldiers fighting. Regimental combat rather than unit to unit combat (a mere poor abstraction in other games).

Lastly, I really do see Total War as more of a simulation than game. A historical simulator. Believe it or not, before I played Empire I had an idiots understanding of 17th and 18th century warfare, but playing it has prompted me to read up about it in my own time. Total War games are of course also a thinkers series. You really have to have the brains to do what you need to do. It is definitely not a point a click graphics show.

That said, numbers IS the thing that is most neglected by developers these days. The vanity drive for graphics kills many games with great potential. Here, as Total War fans, I'm sure we want more epic, more interesting, more challenging battles rather than another graphics showcase.

I do not want to feel I'm doing border skirmishes all the time. There are Friday pub brawls where I live that are more epic than vanilla Ultra size setting battles.

If I really wanted nice things to look at, I've got plenty of other places (and people ) I can stare at. When I play a game, I want a challenge and to feel immersed. Every Total War battle should look like the Battle of Pelennor Fields in Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. Having 80 poncy cavalry just looks stupid.

That is why I think this mod and the potential of the engine is a godsend (if they can optimise it more and fix the damn bugs!!). Well done again Darth, and shame on you if you do not believe in epic battles.

You said it exactly as I say to my friends all these years. All other games are stupid. RTS with homing missiles, insect moving and robotic melees. Even WoW is a game like this. (pressing all the buttons to kill a Giant with a child girl character of 250 experience)

TW series is a must for the aged gamers. The professional of the 30's (I do not know how old are you). I wish younger players will start to understand the principles of gameplay and maybe then the game industries will start to create better and more mature games.

I think CA is battling to find a balance between those 2 opposites... and this is why there are so many "gameish" things in the game that should not exist.

Epic... is my stance in life.... to everything I can grasp.... as much as I can.

[jumong]

ive had imaginations of this massive TW style game that allows you to create your own nations and units and let you battle on a custom generated campaign map with custom generated factions.

just want to say that i also like these mature games. getting abit bored with RTS with homing missiles (red alert 3?) though im more diverse in the games i play.

[scivian]

Commander Edition unit numbers are showing up quick game but not in campaign when training and retraining. Help?

Edit: The units that had already been selected to be trained when the mod was installed need to be unselected and then reselected. Already trained cannot be retrained.

[Gilthanor]

I've been playing around with even larger unit sizes just to see how it works out. Aside from the drop in FPS I experience when playing with regiments of 1000 men each, it becomes bulky trying to form your troops to fit the terrain since the units are so much larger. As the TW series continues to develop, I think it would be fantastic if we eventually reach a point where we're using brigade size units on the army screen and in the unit card section, but each brigade has a number of regiments that can be directly selected on the battle map to form the brigade to the shape you need.

On a different note, can someone explain how to adjust the "width" of a unit to fit the larger numbers? For example, I can't get Russian line infantry units of 500 men down to three ranks because it will only drag out a certain distance.

[Kennylz]

You will not be able to get them to three ranks. But hey, it wouldn't work with the battle map size anyway.

[GuiltyBoomerang]

@Kennylz

When you're deploying them, you can click/spam the increase rank button/key for the units to get them into three ranks. Though why you would bother is a mystery ;p

[Feanaro]

Mapping is one reason why CA might not have included the option. I often find myself annoyed at the now cramped default maps. With 300, 400, 500 man units, you can find yourself pressed to deploy them well in the space given. Especially with those damn fences/walls. They are everywhere, even in the middle of nowhere, and constantly cause problems with deploying/advancing units. It's one thing to have to deal with them now and again but seemingly every battle?

[Pitus]

I like epics games...

[GuiltyBoomerang]

Mapping is one reason why CA might not have included the option. I often find myself annoyed at the now cramped default maps. With 300, 400, 500 man units, you can find yourself pressed to deploy them well in the space given. Especially with those damn fences/walls. They are everywhere, even in the middle of nowhere, and constantly cause problems with deploying/advancing units. It's one thing to have to deal with them now and again but seemingly every battle?

Once you've deployed them, you can always spread them out a bit more OR just not bother and charge :-)