{Game Closed}Broken Crescent 2.02: New Beginnings { Now Recruiting Omani }

[Kaizer Merlox]

It's kinda unrealistic though, one man being worth 600? while Roman Elite foot troops cost less...? I donno... Maybe the recruit per 5 turn thing would be good...

[Sarkiss]

It's kinda unrealistic though, one man being worth 600? while Roman Elite foot troops cost less...? I donno... Maybe the recruit per 5 turn thing would be good...

not very unrealistic when you think about it. its not just a single person, it represents a whole spy network; folks need to be regularly bribed, new informants recruited, some official pleased etc, etc. a good, functional spy net could worth a fortune

[Kaizer Merlox]

I donno if it could cost a half of year worth of water, and food, also with equipment care, and also wages... a whole unit of elite soldiers.... even mounted? Then you have to take care of the horses...

i mean, or lets put it into basics, 1 spy = almost half an army of levy units that you have to supply? >_>;

Also the fact is that a bad, and a good fuctional "Spy network" does not vary in price.

[Kavhan Isbul]

Feudal soldiers, who were given land in return for their military service, realistically should cost anything. However, for gameplay reasons, the BC developers have balanced BC 2.0 to have maintenance reflect the capabilities of units, instead of basing it on realistic estimates that would reflect historical recruitement.

Increasing the maintenance of a spy is also a gameplay decision, aimed at decreasing the benefits of special agents, which are now far greater than their cost.

And I disagree that a good network will cost the same as a poor network. In order to train a spy, it takes successfull missions, and it usually takes at least several turns to get a really good spy. Considering that you will be paying the maintenance for the spy during this time, it is obviously a substantial investment - 5 turns at 600/turn is 3,000 florints, and this does not take into account the time value of the investment. In a game like BC, where certain investments such as improved roads, ports and mines can yield returns in the double digits, the time value of money is even higher.

As Sarkiss has pointed out, in the Middle Ages, when gates were opened in a siege, it usually happened after someone from the inside received a hefty bribe. The game can never reflect the Middle Ages perfectly, and we have to live with its limitations of realism.

What we are discussing here is not a matter of realism, but a matter of balance and more fun gameplay. Therefore, I will be OK with any option, which lowers the ability of special agents to determine the outcome and gives more importance to armies and siege engines, as long as spies still have the ability to open gates.

I dislike the third option because of the potential for rules violation, and I do not see the punishments as a solution, as they will not really solve the main issue here. But I do not see a way to increase the cost of spies for everyone, unless all players agree to mod their game, which many might be unwilling to do and which is impossible to monitor anyway.

BC should have limited the number of spies to 1 per spy recruiting building - basically one per city, like many other mods. Maybe we should write a special patch request to Strelac and GrandViz? After all, they supposedly want a balanced mod too.

[Kaizer Merlox]

I really am losing interest in this whole debate about what spies are all about. It all ends' up being the same once mobile siege equipment comes into play.

Personally, I don't want to download a bunch of new files just because people can't deal with spies. We either ban them or we don't. That simple. Either way, you guys will complain about 1 thing or another. If spies are banned, nobody will go to war until seige weapons are built. If spies arn't banned, every one will cry how fast their empires fall apart because they didn't fit anti spy / assassin defenses correctly. If spies are upped to 600, the person to prioritize on spies wins, due to the fact that nobody will have the funds to put a spy in each town for basic safety, Increasing the funds to 600 will only help blitzing. Enemy has less spies to put into his settlements to protect against your spies, find an opening, push through. Theres only 1 fix to this, and thats enabling it so both sides can play. but since we can not do that. It will NEVER be fixed. People want to play against the AI.

I just say we go right at it with no changes now... -_- This argument will never end. I mean, This would be the first major big game with no changes, unlike Civics... (Which pretty much all of the people who say no spy, are already in civic's game, not a surprise.)

[Oman2nd]

I really am losing interest in this whole debate about what spies are all about. It all ends' up being the same once mobile siege equipment comes into play.

Personally, I don't want to download a bunch of new files just because people can't deal with spies. We either ban them or we don't. That simple. Either way, you guys will complain about 1 thing or another. If spies are banned, nobody will go to war until seige weapons are built. If spies arn't banned, every one will cry how fast their empires fall apart because they didn't fit anti spy / assassin defenses correctly. If spies are upped to 600, the person to prioritize on spies wins, due to the fact that nobody will have the funds to put a spy in each town for basic safety, Increasing the funds to 600 will only help blitzing. Enemy has less spies to put into his settlements to protect against your spies, find an opening, push through. Theres only 1 fix to this, and thats enabling it so both sides can play. but since we can not do that. It will NEVER be fixed. People want to play against the AI.

I just say we go right at it with no changes now... -_- This argument will never end. I mean, This would be the first major big game with no changes, unlike Civics...

Agreed, let's start playing!

[TriforceV]

Look everyone,
When it comes to Changing the spies status, their success rate, their cost, their recruitability.. etc
I've Done some Research in this, and it is possible... However, It only works for the individuals BC's file,

In other words, If I limit my Spies success rate, and play my turn, it might be taken into affect, however the next person to play the turn, will experience normal spy rates unless they themselves either change their specific code, or download the file with and overwrite it in their folder that has the same code as me.
While this is possible, again.. the Problem is that Player B might either forget to overwrite, (giving himself a clear advantage), or even worse, figure out how to adjust the code and cheat, (and not simply in regards to spies).
And nobody would be one the wiser...

Anyways, The reason Why I'm not trying to accommodate this is because it is a situation of "Pandora's Box" and is better left unopened...

So please, lets move away from the subject of changing anything about the spies and more on focusing on individual constraint

--------------------------------

P.S.

If your tierd about talking about spies rules, I don't blame you, i think we are at the point where we are "beating an already dead horse".
Personally if your sick of debating it, then don't..
Also the game will start later today..., be patient

[Kaizer Merlox]

Yeah... spies... *Gives the horse a final whack*

[Nakharar]

Ok lets to the simple option spies allowed

[TriforceV]

Alright the Game finally Begins

Turks are up first

[Commander Ruunu]

Wait sec, what about their new AOR revision?

[TriforceV]

I've removed the turn temporarily until tonight,
and depending on how long the patch will come up with either post it tonight or after the patch.

But if they refuse to give us a release estimate - or its longer then a week, I will just post it tonight.

[garato]

Very dissapointed option about spies.We are going to fight with primitive spearmen in stone age again...
Please find for me subber for first turns.I can to join only after Aug 1 th.

[Nakharar]

im dissapointed too i just realized our latesgt campaign was ALL about spies i cant take a city now unless i have spies DEEP inside cities, or decide to siege which means i wont be able to win.

I was thinking 3 actually...

[Kaizer Merlox]

Thats why theres civic campaign for you guys....

[Cyrus Kabir]

I do not know how to start the hotseat! Could you Triforce upload the turn?

[Kaizer Merlox]

I've removed the turn temporarily until tonight,
and depending on how long the patch will come up with either post it tonight or after the patch.

But if they refuse to give us a release estimate - or its longer then a week, I will just post it tonight.

The game hasn't started just yet, Hold your pants up until then Cryus.

[TriforceV]

Apprently

"The next patch including the updated AOR system will be released before the end of the week."

So, if nobody minds waiting alittle while extra, then we can include the new updated AOR system

[Empedocles]

ok

[bleach]

Unfortunately it looks like I will have to drop ut. My computer has broken, again.. I don't know how long it will be til it is fixed. Sorry.