EB-Twitter updates Discussion

[Kull]

My conclusion is that the rebel AI is only capable of recruiting from the polis building and not the government, the only difference between those i can think of, is that the polis building is of hinterland type (indestructible), while the government is not. Therefore a possible solution i suggest is to put all the rebel recruitment into the province "building" (where the description of the region goes), as that is a hinterland type building, and see if the rebel AI is capable of recruiting from there.

Great testing, thanks! Based on this and earlier internal testing, my theory is that the ability to build structures AND recruit is driven by the "sub-faction" designation of each settlement. And of course, available funds. That neatly fits with all the observations and testing to-date (to include why "slave" as a faction is completely useless outside of scripting).

[Rad]

So, that's why I noticed that the rebels in Corinth eventually went up to two full stacks!

[QuintusSertorius]

The good news: changing the govslave lines from slave to all works. The bad news: we're going to have to do some testing for rebalance of the opening game. We don't want a huge recruitment boom in every Rebel settlement.

[Raiuga]

I decided to test this instead of just assuming from memory, because i was quite certain about it. Here are the results.

Sinope from turn 1 to 30

Turn 1 - initial garrison
https://prnt.sc/lao861

Turn 2 - peltastai logades
http://prntscr.com/lao8jd

Turn 6 - hoplitai
http://prntscr.com/lao8wp

Turn 10 - xystophoroi
http://prntscr.com/lao99m

Turn 14 - hippakontistai
http://prntscr.com/lao9hi

Turn 18 - hoplitai
http://prntscr.com/lao9su

Turn 22 - hemithorakitai
http://prntscr.com/laoa55

Turn 28 - hemithorakitai (probably in turn 26 but i missed it)
http://prntscr.com/laoacf

Turn 30 - peltastai logades
http://prntscr.com/laoaww

Turn 30 - Government Overview
http://prntscr.com/laob5v

What i noticed is the following.
- The rebels from Sinope are recruiting from the settlement, not from mercenaries. I made sure to recruit all mercs myself leaving none available, plus the type of units recruited show that mercernaries were not taken.
- The rebels are recruiting from the polis building, and not from the eleutheroi government. Again this is shown by the unit type of the units recruited.
- The rebels were "encouraged" to recruit by parking a stack in their territory, however i have seen this behaviour regardless of using this trick. I just wanted to show clearly that the rebel AI does in fact recruit, contrary to what has been stated here.

My conclusion is that the rebel AI is only capable of recruiting from the polis building and not the government, the only difference between those i can think of, is that the polis building is of hinterland type (indestructible), while the government is not. Therefore a possible solution i suggest is to put all the rebel recruitment into the province "building" (where the description of the region goes), as that is a hinterland type building, and see if the rebel AI is capable of recruiting from there.

Excellent work. Good thing you had the time and patience to make this test. At least my experience wasn't completely wrong.

[Hellenikon]

I'm assuming if you right-click on the polis, the building card shows no recruitment for the Rebels there?

Yes, the polis building showed no recruitment for the rebels when i right clicked it as the player. Evidently that wasn't true because they were recruiting from there exclusively.

Glad to hear that you managed to resolve the issue by using "all" instead of "slave". 2.35 looks very impressive, so many gameplay improvements! Kudos and thank you for the hard work.

[LusitanianWolf]

Great job! Curious to see how the new developments will impact the game. Will be interesting to see the eleutheroi being more active.

[Guils]

Firstly, this is absolutely brilliant feedback, exactly the sort we need when these kinds of questions arise.

The Rebels recruiting from the polis is curious indeed (and you're right, given the units that are appearing, some of which are not available from the govslave, that must be what is happening), because they're the wrong culture. Rebels are cul_6, only cul_1/cul_3 can recruit from the polis. I'm assuming if you right-click on the polis, the building card shows no recruitment for the Rebels there?

So I can think there are two possible conclusions from this: either the Rebels can only recruit from hinterland buildings, as you suggest; or the culture code allows them to do so regardless of whether or not it is the same as the Rebels one. The Rebels are different from regular factions in all sorts of ways already, giving them an exception to the usual rules wouldn't be outlandish.

The other observation I have is that money might indeed be a problem. The finance script sorts out Rebel debt the same as everyone else, and even doesn't have a "clawback" for surpluses. But we use king's purse to give them money every turn - and the amount is rather small since it's a flat fee (divided by 112 starting settlements), not a per-settlement boost.

I often give money to the rebels (with "add_money" etc) in order to prevent other factions from developing too fast. Does it have an influence then?

[QuintusSertorius]

I often give money to the rebels (with "add_money" etc) in order to prevent other factions from developing too fast. Does it have an influence then?

In 2.3, not directly. If they have some other recruiting building present, like a polis or colony, then they can use that to hire units, but they will get nothing whatsover from their primary source, the government building.

In addition, the Rebel CAI likes construction, even to the exclusion of units (the opposite of the regular CAI), so much of it will be eaten up in building projects, rather than recruitment.

[Lusitanio]

Can the EBII team answer some questions regarding the next version?

1 - The improvements on the city models. Are Carthage cities finished? Were more new building/elements introduced? I would really love to see more of it!

2 - Are there some Iberian units being worked for the next version? Like soldiers from llergetae?

3 - What will be the changes on the rebel faction for the next version? For example, in Syracuse on the beginning of the campaign, there are two full stack armies + the city full, will that change because now the city will recruit more troops?

4 - Will the increase in recruiting troops be the only change on the rebel faction (not complaining because it's already a BIG change)?

[QuintusSertorius]

1. I don't think the settlements are finished, it's a lot of work, but they are progressing.
2. Watch this space...
3. Still testing, but they will start to boost their garrisons from around turn 10 onwards. Not spam, just a gradual increase which may offset losses if they survive attacks. It means you won't be able to kill the rovers, wait a while, then go and take on the diminished garrison.
4. No other changes to the Rebels, no. We're limited in what we can do with them anyway, they are designed with stunted CAI and have all sorts of other hardcoded handicaps.

[Lusitanio]

Thanks Quintus! I will "watch this space"
Have a nice day!

[Roma_Victrix]

My sexual orientation = EBII's new Carthaginian settlements in development.

If you don't give me those goddamn settlements right now, Quintus, so help me God I will sack and burn Corinth and Carthage to the ground. And I'll blame you for it.

Honestly, can't wait to see them and play sieges with them.

[OJ33DA]

Agreed! Those walls look so yummy; I can’t wait to tear them down!

[NapoleonMaster]

Is there any fix for the broken Armenian imperial seat goverment or do I need to wait for 2.35?.

I want to play Armenia so bad but this bug keeps ruining my game tbh.

[QuintusSertorius]

You'll have to wait for 2.35. There are so many fixes we've collected over the last few months and they're all mixed in with new content and completely reworked old stuff. That script has been rewritten, for example.

To the positive, we're testing a range of financial support values and their impact on Rebel recruitment at the moment. They definitely do now recruit what they're supposed to, though some more tweaks are going to be needed to stop them spamming elites right away...

[NapoleonMaster]

btw, how can I revert back the death animations to the standart ones of Med 2?

And can we expect 2.35 early in the next year?

[OJ33DA]

And can we expect 2.35 early in the next year?

The forbidden question... don’t expect a specific release date from modders. And even if Quintus said, “tomorrow,” we can only hope that everything goes right to make that true. There are so many IRL factors that affect unpaid modders’ motivation, free time, and commitment to a project. To impose an expectation of the timeliness of their work is just cruel.

[QuintusSertorius]

We're playtesting and updating at the moment, and new elements keep being added as we're doing that. But the primary thing is making sure this addition of Rebel recruitment doesn't completely skew gameplay and arrest all other AI activity.

[NapoleonMaster]

I've read somewhere that the Carthaginians armed some Lybians with the Macedonian Sarissa, is this true or were these "Lybian phalangites" just pure fiction?

[Lusitanio]

Pure fiction. Even if armed with that they would not have time to train them to act like phalangites.