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Thread: Realistic Flag Set v1.2 - Massive Expansion: All Major Powers On All Levels

  1. #1

    Default Realistic Flag Set v1.2 - Massive Expansion: All Major Powers On All Levels

    Realistic Flag Set - Version 1.2



    The Realistic Flag Set aims to address historical inaccuracies in E:TW through a comprehensive collection of campaign, army and navy flags; approximating the great variety of designs used by the powers of the time to represent themselves officially and to wage war on land and at sea. The flags are based on research and provided on all levels of the game, including the user interface and diplomacy screens. Artistically, the aim is to make all the flags to the same standard as the game's original material.

    The emphasis is on what would have been realistic or plausible at the time the game starts: 1700. Where definite information is unavailable or impossible (in the case of republics or monarchies that never came into existence, for instance), an educated guess will be made - also in the case of regimental flags that need to represent many historical variations. This is an ongoing debate: We are always open to new insights and opinions and we welcome any contributions to the thread.

    The 1.2 version of this flag set provides flags for all the major powers, both as monarchies and republics, and for some selected minor nations. The remaining powers will be tackled in upcoming versions. Below is an overview of the nations affected by this mod.




    Installation

    Place the .pack file into your \data directory and load it with Mod Manager (see link below). I recommend making sure this pack loads at the top of the list. It should not conflict with gameplay-only modifications such as DarthMod.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=240335

    If you have version 1.1 installed, remove it from your \data directory. It contains older flags that might interfere with the newer, better and more accurate ones.

    Note: In the case of France and Austria, the portrait and interface flags currently have coats of arms that are not present on the campaign map. They symbolize the personal status of the French king, and of the Austrian ruler in his capacity as Holy Roman Emperor.

    Read the forum thread for the latest screenshots, and for work in progress previews of upcoming additions.


    Credits

    Artist and project leader: Frédéric Anklin, a.k.a. Spanky

    Contributing artists:

    Neofit
    • Battle flags for Courland, United Provinces, Prussia, Russian Republic
    • State flag for Russian Republic
    • Naval flag for Courland


    Solo
    • Battle flags for Spain, Louisiana, Portugal, Mughal Empire, Maratha Empire, Venice, Savoy
    • State flags for Spain, Louisiana, Portugal, Poland-Lithuania, Ottoman Empire, Mughal Empire, Maratha Empire, Venice, Savoy
    • Naval flag for Poland-Lithuania
    • Portrait, HUD and swaying diplomacy screen flags
    • Templates for between-turn draped flags


    Download here:

    http://files.filefront.com/ETW+reali.../fileinfo.html
    Last edited by Spanky; May 25, 2009 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Version 1.2 uploaded

  2. #2

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    I'm currently working on a flag set for Prussia, including a more accurate national flag without the 19th century stripes, and a generic battlefield flag that approximates the various regimental banner designs through amalgamation. Also, more plausible republican flags with Prussian colors to replace the pan-German flag.



    The eagle for the national flag is taken from the original used in the game, which is based off a late 19th century design and looks Renaissance to early modern in style. This might have been the style kept in the 18th for reasons of tradition but I don't know; it differs from the lighter style used in the regimental banners. Any hints would be appreciated.





    The battlefield flag is based on the regimental banners. They all followed one of two basic patterns, this being the one with the prominent eagle, and set themselves apart by using different colors in the field, often in cross or flame shaped patterns. This flag here is based specifically on the guard regiment, which is the most neutral in color and would therefore be fairly representative as long as we can't have specific regimental flags. Since the banners were basically square, I used the alpha channel to cut the flag off at the end and put the golden border in place there.

    --------------------------------------

    What I currently need is some info on the Prussian naval ensign during the 18th century - what did they fly from their ships? The version I'm using at the moment is the same as the campaign flag but with the eagle closer to the hoist, but that is pure speculation. Any image material would be appreciated. Specifically, was the naval ensign flown square, or with a swallow tail? I am aware of the 19th century designs, but I want to avoid those.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Spanky; April 07, 2009 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Info moved down from first post

  3. #3

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Oh my god that looks good. Can you upload it somewhere?

  4. #4
    Nordmann's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Excellent work, I particularly like the battle map flag, it certainly has a more distinct feel to it. If you're still looking for info on naval ensigns, someone has already done a near enough complete re-texture for all the faction's navies. Check here for more info.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Thanks Nordmann,

    The first screenshot there is a little discouraging though. It's probably supposed to be a Prussian ensign but it uses the German Reichsflotte banner of 1848. Not only way off in terms of time but I find the use of the German national colors for Prussia to be out of place. If you'll allow me to quote myself from this thread:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=244533

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    The black-red-gold flag is from the early 19th century actually, used by German nationalists who at the time were also pro-democracy. They offered the Prussian king the crown of their version of Germany during the Frankfurt Parliament of 1848. So it isn't totally off.

    The red-white-black is actually less well suited: It's not about a republic at all, it was chosen as the flag of the North German Confederation that existed just before the new Empire was founded. The only reason for those colors is that they mix the Hanseatic white and red with the Prussian white and black.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of..._German_Empire

    The thing about these German flags is that they're more about territory than political system, so it's weird to have Prussia change to those colors just because it becomes a republic. More realistic would be for a Prussian republican flag to get rid of the eagle and feature only a white and black stripe, or black-white-black as it was briefly in 1818.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_prussia

    The current Prussian flag is wrong anyway; those black stripes are 19th century.
    Searry, I'd be happy to upload once I have the naval ensign and the republican colors in place. For the latter, I'm going to be using a white stripe on top and black at the bottom, basically like the current Westphalian flag, with black instead of blue. This is a pretty good estimate of what the flag without the eagle would have looked like; it's basically the top two-thirds of the German Empire flag (see origin above), and also the configuration of the German national football team colors, which have their origin in the Prussian ones.
    Last edited by Spanky; March 31, 2009 at 05:43 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Yes Spanky, it's the banner of the german republic of 1848. I know it's not hystorical, but in the same way, it's not strictly hystyorical to have a german republic in 1701

    anyway in my minimod i have inserted also a texture of the prussian navy (the info was taken from here: http://digilander.libero.it/breschir...g/prussia.html)

    This site is really useful. If you need some translation for your work, just tell me, i'll help you !

  7. #7
    Sol Invictus's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Very nice.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Thanks trasibulos, that site is great! In fact, the first flag shows the kind of style I thought the national flag might be in: "aquila coronata non araldica, naturalistica". But I understand that this form was only decided upon in 1739?

    In realtŕ la bandiera bianca con l'aquila nera era apparsa nel 1701, ma l'emblema non aveva una forma costante. Nel 1739 si decise allora per il disegno che figurava sulla stella dell'Ordine dell'Aquila Nera
    So this would mean that for 1701, it might at least not be unrealistic to have the eagle displayed in "heraldic" fashion.

    But do I understand correctly? The flag displayed there is only the naval flag, for war and merchant purposes? Because it is actually missing the orb and sceptre in its claws, this would be a requirement for the campaign map.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trasibulos View Post
    Yes Spanky, it's the banner of the german republic of 1848. I know it's not hystorical, but in the same way, it's not strictly hystyorical to have a german republic in 1701
    What I am saying is: The flag would be fine if there were a German state in the game, but there isn't; there is only Prussia, Austria and so on. In 1848, that wasn't the flag of Prussia, but of the whole of Germany, and it couldn't be the flag of a Prussian republic in 1701 either. The colors are national colors more than political; they are taken from the coat of arms of the old Holy Roman Empire, that's why they are similar to the ones used by "Austria" in the game, which had the Holy Roman Emperor at its head. And the German revolutionaries weren't too concerned about having a republic, either: that's why they offered the crown to the Prussian king. Germany could have been a constitutional monarchy, so the colors can't exclusively represent a republic. I guess they are best compared to the Italian flag: the Risorgimento was as much about unifying the country as it was about introducing modern forms of government. Here also, Vittorio Emmanuele was put at the head of a constitutional monarchy: revolutionary colors, but with the coat of arms of Savoy in the middle. When Italy became a republic, the colors stayed the same.

    But it's especially wrong to have Prussia use those colors because they were explicitly rejected when Prussia actually did form a German Empire. Besides: who is to say that Prussia will unify Germany in every game? What if they never grow outside their borders, only being one German state among many? Or if they expand into the East or overseas, keeping out of the rest of Germany? What if they become a republic long before they unify the Empire?

    All good reasons to have a Prussian republic use Prussian colors.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Yes you got the meaning. The first prussian flag was used only for maritime purposes. On that site it's said that that flag have not been used for land battles or for public representative reason. It is also said that up to 1739, this eagle will not be the permanent symbol of the prussian navy ( there were many variants). After 1739 that flag was adopted as the official prussian navy flag.

    Pardon my poor english

  10. #10

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    I have a contemporary drawing of one of the Prussian ships that were built and used for coastal defense purposes during the Seven Years War, and it displays a naval ensign. I just have to find the book, and then I'll scan it for you.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    What I currently need is some info on the Prussian naval ensign during the 18th century - what did they fly from their ships?
    Well, here you go. This drawing from 1761 show one of the ships built then for coastal defense along Prussia's Baltic Sea coast.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    The enlaged detail shows the naval ensign, which is a actually pretty simple design.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Hope this helps!

  12. #12
    bibouba's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Splendid

  13. #13

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Thanks Korporal! That's excellent. Seems that I was basically correct with my naval ensign with the eagle closer to the hoist, so I'll keep that.

    Also, thanks again Trasibulos. Your English is a heck of a lot better than my Italian, which is practically non-existent.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - info on Naval Ensign needed

    Good job. Me rikey!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - Where are national id discs located?

    Well, it is progressing nicely. I have all the flags for a Prussian republic now, including naval ensign, and for the regular Prussian ensign, I've adjusted the long banner with the small eagle on it to have the eagle have its head toward the mast, as in Korporal's source.

    I also figured that I might as well include both the Prussian and the Spanish / New Spain flags in one pack, since they share some of the files and Spain is the other candidate screaming for a fix. My current solution there is to have Spain use the burgundy cross on white, and I modified the New Spain flag to feature the burgundy cross on a yellow background, which was the second most common use of the burgundy cross.

    At sea, Spain will use the 1701 Bourbon naval ensign, while New Spain will use the burgundy cross on yellow.

    What I need right now is for someone to tell me where the textures for the small, circular representations of the flags are stored - not the naval ids but the ones appearing on the campaign map, over gentlemen, rakes etc. I first assumed they were the same files as the naval ids but it appears not.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Spanky; April 01, 2009 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Added info

  16. #16

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - Where are national id discs located?

    To be historically correct, in 18th century prussia had no naval ensign, as it haven't had a navy. The Electorate of Brandenburg had a fleet, but that was abandonedin the 17 century already. Navy was rebuild in 1817 and the naval evsign didn't have the black stripes at top and bottom.
    Bladerunner
    Koeniglich Preussische Marine
    Sealords Virtual Fleets

    Sealords Minimod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=274322
    Sealords Total War Mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=246265

  17. #17

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - Where are national id discs located?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    To be historically correct, in 18th century prussia had no naval ensign, as it haven't had a navy. The Electorate of Brandenburg had a fleet, but that was abandonedin the 17 century already. Navy was rebuild in 1817 and the naval evsign didn't have the black stripes at top and bottom.
    Thanks, but since it is possible in this game for Prussia to follow a different historical path, I'd say a ship with no flag would be less historically correct than a ship with a flag that is as close as possible to what a historical design would have been. If Korporal's source shows a coast guard vessel, I think it can be assumed that this would be fairly close... Are you saying that the 1817 ensign was the eagle on a white field? If so, then I think we've pretty much nailed it. I saw an Iron Cross on one of the 19th century designs, but of course that only came into being in the early 19th.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - Where are national id discs located?

    Here we are. This is the naval ensign for Prussia:





    And these are the Spanish flags.

    Cross on yellow for New Spain, on white for Spain (also on the battlefield):



    And 1701 naval ensign for Spain, with the burgundy cross flying from the top mast:





    All I'm waiting for right now is to find out how to change the id circles.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - Where are national id discs located?

    Can you please upload the Prussian flags at least.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Prussian flag set WIP - Where are national id discs located?

    You are right with the Prussian ships. They need an Ensign, that's why they introduced the Flag in 1816. That's the one i referred to and yes it had a iron cross uo next to the flagpole. I don't know yet , which version of the eagle they used, but try to find out.

    Next to this i like your work. Looks good like the originals - not too bright and shiney. Inspires me to make some new for my sealords mod (Naval MP Mod).

    P.S.: generally a good source for flags is this page:
    http://flagspot.net/flags/

    There are also older flags on this page, so you'll find here flags of prussia from different times:
    http://flagspot.net/flags/de-pr701.html#1701

    I found a Flag in Wiki, but the eagle does not corrospond with the Time:
    http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20071223154154

    I found some naval ensigns on Flagspot, but it already says the picture is not completly correct:
    http://flagspot.net/flags/de~pr_w.html
    Last edited by Bladerunner; April 02, 2009 at 06:59 AM.
    Bladerunner
    Koeniglich Preussische Marine
    Sealords Virtual Fleets

    Sealords Minimod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=274322
    Sealords Total War Mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=246265

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