Early Period - Mass Long Rifles - Exploitive

[Kennylz]

Just putting it out there, in case it isn't already common knowledge. If you want an easy win, or an easy loss if its used against you, check out a full stack of American long rifles in an early period game.

Invisible, longest range, skirmishing army.

The only counter is mass cav, and thats if you guess and predict it. Prepare to roll the dice and enjoy an extremely gamey, unfun, broken game.

ETW is in need of a balance patch big time. Between mortars and these early elite skirmishers, there is an issue.

[The_Dude]

i dont see it as exploiting when somebody uses the units that are available in Early 'en masse. game and lame ? definitely, but not exploiting as such.
the problem imo is that CA focused on Single Player when creating the Armies where a couple of early Long Rifles dont make much of a difference.
i mean, you just have to look at how easy it is to cheat simply through modding game files, its a joke really. if they had spent some time thinking about this they would have come up with a solution...for example seperate unit stats for MP and do a checksum on those...but no, they just use the same stats as the single player which can be modded to no end.

imo MP games need an option to enforce unit limits. for example max. 4 artillery pieces, max. 4. Light infantry and so on ... but meh, i dont see it happening tbh

[Knighted]

Wow you've got to be kidding me. Sounds like someone got their ass handed to them.

You can beat this strat easily if you're not a moron. Yes mortars are broken we know.

OMG NERF EVERYTHING!

[Bisbjerg]

Not that hard to counter, even if you don't mass cav.
Just send 1 of your line inf. in to the dead, the LR uses their first shoots at 1 unit, then you charge with everything you have.
Done it before, shouldn't be that hard.

Edit. And yes, it is very boring to fight against such and army

[PrimeChaosVC]

Man Old news, don't you see, every time some people voice out a problem, Noobs will start protesting about it. The thing is, yes the counter even with line infantry is easy, but I doubt anyone would enjoy playing against such armies.

[Lord Karhedron]

Large amounts of light inf are only difficult to handle when they're backed up by line regiments or cav themselves.

Unless you're fool enough to take no cavalry yourself 'cos you were trying to spam something of your own, you should be able to deal with an army of JUST light inf.

Dun get me wrong, it's annoying as hell but easily dealt with with just a little thinking.

Really nasty are the armies of majority light inf, backed up by a good core of guards and heavy cav, with a general good at micro management. But then a couple of Howitzers tend to be a good response to that problem.

[Wyrdlight]

Long Rifles are great but can be countered easy if you know where they are.

Un-vetted ones take an age to reload, if you suspect a long rifle spam, take militia or pike or peasants, run em into range, they fire, you then have almost 1 min to engage them with can or Inf.

They work great as small units, adding supporting fire, or ambushing from woods ect but i have found there strength is in:
A) Not being notcied and thereofre not being attacked.

B) Getting off 1 devastating salvo from an ambush position.

C) Luring enemy Cav onto stakes.

They are very micro-heavy, in large numbers i fins there is to much to micro, mistakes are made and with such a fragile army you cant afford any mistakes.

[guerra]

When your opponent spams long rifles, hide your troops in the woods, then have your general and a couple of visible troops in a clearing, that way the long rifles are forced to sneak through the forest and into your ambush. Hold fire until they are point blank and they'll rout in a single volley.

Long rifles can't hit what they can't see.

[Remo]

Early long rifle spam is just like early mortar spam. It's all in the cavalry.

[OberonDark]

I was crushed the first time I faced it and tried it, so it hurts inside. But now, it's no big deal. All you have to do is either use cav or charge your Line Infantry as far as they want to go so that you can engage them. Any line infantry unit is stronger than any light infantry unit. Usually (random people) don't have enough patience to run forever and will engage, which is when they seal their fate.

[Kennylz]

I was just off put when I was having great battles with a lot of tactics and epic maneuvers and then me and my buddy get into a 2 vs 2 where the other armies are basically all long rifles with two cavalry units, and in early period our light infantry didn't have the same range as the elite american long rifles. We killed a lot of them, but it was just so lame. They walked around in stealth mode the entire game until I finally sent my cannons to firing into blank stretches of ground and started killing pockets of them. Then it was just skirmish mode and masses of one rank deep lines.

I never said it was unstoppable, but you have to be a punk yourself to think it is a valid tactic to go around playing games with. It's just ridiculous.

I also appreciate how obvious certain posters made it that they love to use exploits themselves when they get all defensive and start trying to insult the person who brings it up. "LAWL U PROLLY WAS SPAMMIN STUFF TOO" Actually no, the whole reason I was ineffective was because I had a well balanced army. If I HAD spammed anything but guards (and who does that) I would have been a-ok.

I just refuse to play a game like all I have in life is some empty gratification of winning with some cheap gamey tactics.

[Zenodox]

I have absolutely no problem with rifles being in the "early" battles even though the tech tree suggests they shouldn't be.

I do have a problem with the fact that only two factions get them, it should be all factions or none. The increased range is just too much of an advantage to only give it to two factions.

[Knighted]

Kenny you are the kind of noob who ruins online, you think your little defensive artillery touting setup is the only way to go. Sorry if someone wants to use a different tactic that throws you off a little. Sounds like you are afraid of ever having to try.

99% of noobs on ETW multiplayer are defensive and bring artillery to the battle. Being the attacker 99% of the time, I use a few different strategies. I use a strategy a little like the one you are crying about, only different.

My point is, STFU. The strategy is not rediculous at all, and was actually a historical tactic that was quite effective. It's not cheap, you're ass hiding on a hill with artillery pretending like you have a right to defend is cheap.

ITS NOT AN EXPLOIT, it is an incredibly valid tactic that has to be in the game. I guess anyone who whoops your ass is an exploiter.

[Kennylz]

... Your entire post is pointless due to the fact that I had two non howizter, mobile pieces of cannon in said battle. You went off on a rant, and it wasn't even relevant. Me and my friend are always the ones who have to go up the hills and position ourselves to take out the hill campers on 2 vs 2 games, so thanks but no thanks.

But it is good to know that by your logic is unbelievable to take any artillery at all into any battle, but you can run around with gobs of long rifle spam and pwn noobs, which is apparently your 'good realistic strategy'.

If you remember, America used Long Rifles to harass the enemy, while actually still having an full army to take up the lines. In your history I can picture 5000 Mel Gibsons standing up in a line and shooting -just- out of range of the enemy red coats and then retreating, rinse and repeat, liberty comes to America! Yay!

By the way. "It's and incredibly valid tactic." I don't even know what you mean. You are saying not only is it not gamey, a-historical, and an exploit, but it is also even more legitimate than two balanced armies slugging it out? Woah.

Edit: I wasn't even on a hill in said battle. What the hell dude? Just because you got burned a few times in multiplayer doesn't mean you have to totally sell out and then flip out when someone disses your gamey way of playing.

Once again, I remind that this thread isn't about light infantry being an exploit. Want to make your entire line light infantry? Go ahead. I'm specifically referring to players who spam American long rifles (Or Austrian Jaegers) in early era games to take advantage of the fact that most players try to balance their armies out in anticipation of another at least halfway believable army (and do not have uber sniper units themselves), not just one over powered spam unit with maybe 2 units of cav.

[Stonewallis]

So I played a 2v2 today. One of the enemy said people like me were ruining the game with rifle spam. I had 5 LR and my ally had 6 Greenjackets. I thought it was an amusing complaint, considering he was artillery camping.

Rifles are great for camper assaulting.

[Kennylz]

What you just posted is not what I was posting in my op. Nor was I hill camping. Not all complaints are equally legit.

[Stonewallis]

What you just posted is not what I was posting in my op. Nor was I hill camping. Not all complaints are equally legit.

Oops what was the question again?

If someone spams a unit just beat em and then they'll realize it doesn't work. Everyone here has probably dealt with the newest spam crazes as they come about.... mortars, austrian line, LRs, heavy cav, grenzers, howitzers. Wonder what will be next?

I understand your arguement but it's better just to accept this will happen and deal with it. A lot of the people utilizing these tactics are newer players that don't know any better methinks. And you can't really get upset with them. They'll learn the hard way.

[PrimeChaosVC]

Kenny, the best way to enjoy total war games. Is to find like minded mature people, add them in your friend list and play only with them.

[fluffstalker]

Yes, Im with VC on this one, a fellow wargamer and hobbiest.

Computer games are not conduicive at all to balanced armies, tactics, thinking, or dare I say it, people. :O. Joking on the last part, at least for most of you.

This is because there is really little to no penalty or effort required to make boring armies, just a couple of clicks here and I have an army that more often than not is going to give me an advantage from the get go, unless my opponents play every game trying to counter my build, which is real silly.

In a warhammer tournament, you can take stupid lists that have no background reality whatsoever, but not only are you not going get any respect from your fellow gamers and recieve low army composition scores, your also deciving yourself into thinking your winning through tactics. This is what we call "list hammering" or exploiting to the max your army choices rather than picking a balanced and accurate force and relying on your head to do the winning.

Is it legal? Technically yes, but it certainly makes you out to be a jerk but online one will always find other gamers to abuse, unlike a tabletop wargame where small communities ensure ostracization of such players.

So bottom line, kenny, find a group of likeminded individuals who'll fight it out with you on the field and not in the army selection phase. Theres no need to handicap yourself (oh I got to take one of each unit to be balanced), just use common sense and dont use more than four or three of each unit, unless its line infantry.

[Knighted]

kenny is ing about a very valid tactic. Someone has no clue how to deal with a tactical retreat apparently. No I haven't been burned by some hill camper, I've only lost once and it was a 2v2 with 20^ mortars being guarded by another army.


Let me sum up your post kenny. How dare someone field an army I don't have an advantage over, WAH!!!