I have no opinion on this, but I am interested in your thoughts as to why one side is more correct than the other.
Sir Lucious Left Foot
I have no opinion on this, but I am interested in your thoughts as to why one side is more correct than the other.
Under patronage of Emperor Dimitricus Patron of vikrant1986, ErikinWest, VOP2288
Anagennese, the Rise of the Black Hand
MacMillan doesn't compensate for variable humidity,wind speed and direction or the coriolis effect. Mother nature compensates for where Macmillan's crosshairs are.
Campidoctor
Well, abortion will never be outlawed federally, so this really is more of a religous docterine debate than anything else.
Pro-life. If someone simply cannot adhere to laws set forth by ones religion, than they should cease to call themselves a member of that religion. It's called willpower, and people do still have it. Having sex rampantly is someones choice, and by doing so they are sacraficing their religious ties. :whistle
You make the decision to have pre-marital sex while under oath of Catholocism, you make the choice to have a baby.
Some people still cannot seem to grasp this - and to blame the catholic church/pope for AIDS in Africa. :lol
That's just ludicrus.
Protector Domesticus
Pro-life.
non flectis non mutant
Pro-Life
AUTHOR OF TROY OF THE WESTERN SEA: LOVE AND CARNAGE UNDER THE RULE OF THE VANDAL KING, GENSERIC
THE BLACK-HEARTED LORDS OF THRACE: ODRYSIAN KINGDOM AAR
VANDALARIUS: A DARK AGES GOTHIC EMPIRE ATTILA AAR
Domesticus
Forever pro-life. There are very exceptions to this, including rape, that I would see an abortion be fit. This way, I see that abortion should be illegal unless under some of those rare circumstances. I am probably pro-life because of how it was taught in my faith (the Catholic Church teaches that it is the greatest evil), and also common sense tells me that it is wrong. After witnessing some abortions about a year ago, though, was when I really started to care. I think that abortions should be outlawed, and don't care if people have to go underground to get them done. Many people argue that fetuses are not human, not even living, which I strongly disagree with. You cannot use the analogy, "it's like killing a seed before it becomes a tree", because a person is something more to that, and cannot be compared to a tree. Even if you do not believe in a soul, logic tells you that killing an innocent life form is murder, and is wrong. Here is a great website about abortion for non-religious types: http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html The Catholic Church has alot of great links and articles about abortion, I'll dig them up in a minute.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
http://www.apollocinema.net.tc/
ximan = pronounced "zee-man"
Vicarius
Pro Choice, I fail to see how removing a pack of cells can really be murder....
Semisalis
I don't think that any lives would be saved by banning abortion. What would happen if it were banned is more kids would end up in trash cans and more women would die from abortion complications. Abortion has always existed, and banning it won't make it go away.
Domesticus
Here is what the Catechism of the Church says about abortion:
2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76
2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:
"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80
"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."81
2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.
Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."82
2275 "One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival."83
"It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material."84
"Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities. Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity"85 which are unique and unrepeatable.
Btw, Mehmed, are you still Muslim?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
http://www.apollocinema.net.tc/
ximan = pronounced "zee-man"
Hell hath no fury
Very Pro-choice. Abortion is the person(s) choice that are involved. But I tend to sway when it become an issue of when they should be allowed to abort. They should not be allowed to abort at the tail end of the pregnancy. The ability to choose is probably one of the most impostant aspects of ones life. And what direction that coice will take you in the future.
Religion should have no effect on the persons ability to choose. It just makes no sense to me.
Anything past the first trimester: no abortion.
"Pro-choice" is the biggest false advertising campaign in history. I fail to see what choice the baby is being given.
Clay
I used to say that until i found out that that pack of cells could move its hands at 6 weeks. To life like, makes me sick to my stomach to imagine it being destroyed.Pro Choice, I fail to see how removing a pack of cells can really be murder....
I guess for me it all depends on how far along the fetus has developed.
I have a problem with it though because it's us who fool around and then refuse the consequences and dismiss the idea that we could be hurting something. Abortion should be a last resort.
siggy!
Pro-Choice of course - it may be against your views, but it sure isn't against the views of that woman who is seeking a abortion. you can have all the kids you want, but you can't stop others from having abortions.
And you can't compare fetuses with actual humans - they are alive, yes, but so is a blade of grass, and I have yet to hear about people whining about grass getting mowed down.
"logic tells you that killing an innocent life form is murder"
So I'm murdering every single time that I mow down grass? So I'm commiting murder each and every single time I eat anything? so you are commiting murder each and every single time you eat anything? (all foods are made up of cells, which is a life form) why are you still alive?
"
You make the decision to have pre-marital sex while under oath of Catholocism, you make the choice to have a baby."
problem is, some of us here are not christian, and some other of us thinks it's our right to disagree with the pope.
Vicarius
Yup.
Btw, Mehmed, are you still Muslim?
He explained it for me...Very Pro-choice. Abortion is the person(s) choice that are involved. But I tend to sway when it become an issue of when they should be allowed to abort. They should not be allowed to abort at the tail end of the pregnancy. The ability to choose is probably one of the most impostant aspects of ones life. And what direction that coice will take you in the future.
Ducenarius
Pro State's rights. I think it should be up to the state whether or not they want to be pro-choice or not. America has too diverse an opinion for a federal law going either direction to be well-recieved at all, but in individual states things are a tad more ruly.
Personally, I'm pro-choice, and I think alot Pro-Life people are control-freak religious-zealot pigs.
Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
Poets: What if you have to take it on Faith?
Cube: Bah, no deal. That's like a crack-head asking for $5 on Credit.
Domesticus
Here's an interesting tidbit I found:
lee1026:
Consider: A million and a half new Americans are murdered every year by abortion.
While particular historical circumstances increase or decrease the number of Supreme Court appointments a president gets to make (some presidents get many and some get none), if we average out the differences, it turns out that a pro-abort president on average could extend the abortion holocaust by four years equivalent to the four-year term he spends in office.
At 1.5 million kids killed per year, that means that a pro-abort president would be responsible for extending the abortion holocaust to include six million additional murders.
When one takes into account the fact that about half of the recent presidents have had second terms, that would mean a pro-abort president would be responsible for extending the abortion holocaust to include approximately nine million Americans.
No other issue involves numbers that high. Nothing short of a full-scale nuclear or biological war between well-armed nation states would kill that many people, and we aren’t in imminent danger of having one of those.
Not even terrorists with weapons of mass destruction could kill that many people. As vital as the issue of terrorism is, it does not get us up into the number of deaths caused by abortion. It would take three thousand 9/11-size events in a president’s average term of office (more than one a day) to rack up sufficient deaths to make terrorism proportionate to abortion. Al-Qa’eda simply does not have enough suicidal fanatics to make terrorism proportionate to abortion.
Jobs? The economy? Taxes? Education? The environment? Immigration? Forget it. We do not have nine million people dying in a typical president’s term of office due to bad job programs, bad economic policies, bad taxes, bad education, bad environmental law, bad immigration rules—or even all of these combined. All of them together cannot provide a reason proportionate to the need to end abortion.
Make no mistake: Abortion is the preeminent moral issue of our time. It is the black hole that out-masses every other issue. Presenting any other issues as if they were proportionate to it is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
Explain to me how you can possibly compare the life of a human to a blade of grass. Is that the value you think life has? Don't make yourself sound like a fool.
Mehmed:
Isn't that contradicting your religion's teachings? I thought the Catholic and Muslim churches were the two big conservative forces in our world, and the most pro-life, too.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
http://www.apollocinema.net.tc/
ximan = pronounced "zee-man"
Tiro
Pro Life because you are killing a human and if the girl didn't want have a baby she should have used birth control or a condom
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise- Tacitus
«Food or Aaron88? I'll have Aaron88.»
-Sloganizer.net
Ducenarius
What a nice piece of propoganda.Originally posted by ximan@May 1 2005, 08:13 PM
Here's an interesting tidbit I found:
Consider: A million and a half new Americans are murdered every year by abortion.
While particular historical circumstances increase or decrease the number of Supreme Court appointments a president gets to make (some presidents get many and some get none), if we average out the differences, it turns out that a pro-abort president on average could extend the abortion holocaust by four years equivalent to the four-year term he spends in office.
At 1.5 million kids killed per year, that means that a pro-abort president would be responsible for extending the abortion holocaust to include six million additional murders.
When one takes into account the fact that about half of the recent presidents have had second terms, that would mean a pro-abort president would be responsible for extending the abortion holocaust to include approximately nine million Americans.
No other issue involves numbers that high. Nothing short of a full-scale nuclear or biological war between well-armed nation states would kill that many people, and we aren’t in imminent danger of having one of those.
Not even terrorists with weapons of mass destruction could kill that many people. As vital as the issue of terrorism is, it does not get us up into the number of deaths caused by abortion. It would take three thousand 9/11-size events in a president’s average term of office (more than one a day) to rack up sufficient deaths to make terrorism proportionate to abortion. Al-Qa’eda simply does not have enough suicidal fanatics to make terrorism proportionate to abortion.
Jobs? The economy? Taxes? Education? The environment? Immigration? Forget it. We do not have nine million people dying in a typical president’s term of office due to bad job programs, bad economic policies, bad taxes, bad education, bad environmental law, bad immigration rules—or even all of these combined. All of them together cannot provide a reason proportionate to the need to end abortion.
Make no mistake: Abortion is the preeminent moral issue of our time. It is the black hole that out-masses every other issue. Presenting any other issues as if they were proportionate to it is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
Cube: I want a sign from god, in special godly ink, proving his existence.
Poets: What if you have to take it on Faith?
Cube: Bah, no deal. That's like a crack-head asking for $5 on Credit.
pro-life
personnally i think that with the advances of science it is getting harder and harder defending pro-choice, but im sure someone will dispute this within an hour of this post
nevermind-someone already did-lol
"Chess is life;-Robert Fischer
now now, abortion isn't really killing a human - it isn't around yet. it is preventing a human from existing in the first place, the same effect as say the 2 persons just broke up. the same effect as I not walking down the street and raping every female of childbearing age I see.
Pro Life because you are killing a human and if the girl didn't want have a baby she should have used birth control or a condom
pre-birth, a human doesn't exist yet, the "soul" of the human just isn't there yet. killing the little blob of cells have roughly the same effect as killing a blade of grass - you are terminating a blob of cells.
lee1026:
Explain to me how you can possibly compare the life of a human to a blade of grass. Is that the value you think life has? Don't make yourself sound like a fool.
Like you, I can't form an opinion, but like Cleisthenes I wonder when the baby is actually given a choice.I have no opinion on this, but I am interested in your thoughts as to why one side is more correct than the other.
Can't make a decision, but leaning towards Pro-Life...
-Tinesh Tesousa
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