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Thread: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

  1. #1

    Default RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    I'd like to discuss something I call "mod lifetime". I define it as the period of time a large number of TW players are actively interested in the mod: posting, downloading and playing a mod. This lifetime is forcebly tied with releases by CA, which are, on average, roughly about a year apart. Since a complete mod takes, at best, 1/2 to a year to develop, this gives a mod a maximum of about half a year of call it "unfettered" lifetime. For Rusichi TW, this unfettered lifetime is actually negative since we released it a couple days after Empire TW. This alows us to experiment with call it "absolute" lifetime, or popularity. From the release date (11 March) about 1000+ people have so far downloaded the mod from our two servers, one in Moscow and the other in the Netherlands (about 670 Gb of traffic). Interestingly, the traffic and downloads are divided about half/half between the english and the russian version. A big thank you to all the people here who have downloaded the mod!

    Right now, the daily traffic has started to fall at a rate that would lead to 0 traffic in about two weeks. Could this mean that the "absolute" lifetime of is a little over a month @ several thousand users for a non-updated mod?

    The point I want to raise, and with your help analyze, is the following: a complete modification takes, in practice, over a year to complete. This is a problem in that modders aren't able to follow the rythm CA sets. Even taking a best-case scenario, where you spend half a year and the second game, or more accurately addon, (aka Kingdoms) isn't all that different, you don't have very much unfettered lifetime, time without "competition" from CA. For example right now, MTW II modding is the best it's ever been. Architecture is finally unlocked, most things are known, tools exist, a lot of interesting scripts are written etc. etc. But! Since Empire TW is allready out, how much sense does it make to spend the effort modding MTW2? Just remaking the architecture for one culture/faction would take at least a couple of months for a dedicated team, by which time we should start seeing the first Empire mods. Would there be a point, if by that time even the mod creators spend more time playing Empire than previous versions? Should CA release the source code for RTW tommorow, how many people would actually care? Personally, I'd be super interested, but only from the point of view of programming, not modding.

    Do you think that this is in fact a problem? And how can we deal with it, if it is?
    Last edited by Sargon-1; March 26, 2009 at 11:54 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    This outstanding mod should be released before empire tw release. Most people are now by empire tw, new engine new timeline new features.
    What can you do?
    Make own empire tw with better units with own atmosphere on M2TW engine!

    Watch units in empire tw are poor, same faces same outlook, worse gameplay cause AI is weak, you can do it much better.

  3. #3
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    ETW is not a problem for a good M2TW mod...It will never be...
    In ETW new animations,buildings and ships will be required before a mod would b fuctional!But...see RTW modification!
    It runs the 4th generation of it and some mods are realy astonishing!
    A huge number of fans are deticated to RTW's modification!
    I think that nowin M2TW the modeling and skinning are in high levels plus the fact that soon enough new buildings will be available a good mod can easily have 6-9 months to be accomplished and have fans to play it for 2 years in the future!
    The main problem in the twc is the lack of realy devoded teams(real life,new projects by some are reasons to brake teams and mods to die)!
    If a team is deveded enough to operate togetherin only a project then i strogly beleive that it will gain a place to the future playable mods!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  4. #4

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Rome, MedievalII and Empire can easily ‘be alive’ together. It is so simple. Each game is based on different era that got separate enthusiast. I started TW adventure with Shogun. I liked it, but something was missing there… Than Medieval I appear and it was like my dreams coming true! I played it all the time. Even when Rome appeared and plenty people fell in love with it, I still played Medieval. I have never actually bought and played Rome! Than medieval II showed up and astonished everybody with new level of graphic, unknown diversity of units and plenty nice features. Though it was so bugged that practically unplayable. It took long way for patches to came and improve it but the modding world has grown and obsolete vanilla with new quality and superior gameplay. And now Empire is released. I observe number of threads started about it and can see it gathered gigantic popularity. But I still play Medieval II and don’t care about Empire. I will probably buy it sometime, when some mods appear. But medieval is my favorite era and for me there is only one true competition for Medieval II – the brand new Medieval III. Hopefully with even greater unit variation, with medieval naval battles and maybe with true feudalism implemented in its militarism, economy and policy.

    About Rusichi – there is one thing blocking its popularity. It is that you focused on Russian factions. You made them perfect, but not many people will identify with Russian faction. You can play one, two, maybe three times with it, but that’s it. I’m Polish myself and tried non Polish factions few times but got bored very soon. While I have never got bored with playing as Poland. I'm pretty sure other guys think the same. Everybody got its favourite faction which seldom is a Russian one. So if you upgraded other factions in such detailed and unique way you did with Rusisan factions, than you would have the chance to become TW legend. By know you are just some mystique guys from that far cold country of bears and gas that made most beautiful TW units ever.
    Last edited by Silesian_Noble; March 26, 2009 at 01:32 PM.

  5. #5
    eatme's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Well, I will point out two considerations on the contrary to your mod's lifespan problem.

    1. I think the lifetime of a mod is defined by some limited factors- it is the overall mod gamers community playing the MTW2 particularly, and lesser proportion of this community who can be interested in this mod and is actually aware of its existence. So if to judge in linear time, let's say weeks, when you see traffic - ppl downloading the mod, the lifespan will be ever obviously more or less limited. Depending how well the mod is promoted, the more it is, the faster the amount of gamers who ever might be interested in the mod will download it.

    Obviously, it is more of an indicator to popularity - total number of downloads for the mod.
    And, because ppl who DLed the mod won't neccessarily drop playing it after a month of gameplay, but may continue from time to time, depending on if the mod is being updated at all - the lifespan will be much longer than the popularity period that gouged by download traffic.

    2. I would not try putting on the same footing mod's popularity and the game's popularity. The game and mod do not replace but supplement each other. And the modder teamwork can't compete with CA's game development lifecycle -)
    Mod gamers who love those really good mods, will love the game, that hese mods re based on even more so, so the mod lifespan wil be long one but with small number of dedicated players.
    The new game will have millions playing it, but for a shorter time for most of them than for the mod's fans.

    Besides, in case of ETW and MTW2, the games are that much different, on one hand. And on the other, it will take couple years for any good ETW mods to appear, while MTW2 mods are on the peak of popularity.
    Hence, the new game won't diminish the popularity of the older one in any short time, and even less so the mods popularity.
    It may be one of reasons to keep your excellent work up to keep the mod fans happy

  6. #6
    Cromagnon2's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    I see it like this, if you want a medieval time period mod I don't think Empires adds that much, (what do you want with all the new continents without the age of discovery?). And the huge amount of work it will take i don't believe you can ever finish or release it. Like i have not seen any Roman/ancient era based mod for M2TW.
    Now if you want to make a gunpowder based mod about Russian history that will be another story. What was the name of that tv serie, with lots of fighting from the 70's, I think it was about Michael Romanov?
    Anyhow i think allot of people will come back to M2TW, once the novelty of Empire expires and the bugs and bad system performance remains.

  7. #7

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Firstly, let me preface this post by saying I am one of the thousand who have downloaded and enjoyed your mod In fact, I might have been first TWC'er to do it !

    Personally if were you I would a bit gutted that so few people have downloaded Rusichi, and I can see this how made you pessimistic about the future of modding MTW2. However, if you don't mind the critique, there are a couple of really simple reasons why you're not getting the attention you undoubtedly deserve:


    • Bad PR: You didn't have a sub forum, or regular front page updates (even tho your previewed fantastic stuff in your one very long thread ). Many people did even realise 1.0 had been released ! They had to search for post with the link.
    • Bugs: Your first release was full of basic bugs, as if no one had beta-tested it. This creates a really bad first impression.
    • The Russian factions feature interesting gameplay and fleshed-out rosters. But the rest of the 'Rusichi world' was left untouched, and badly balanced. Why couldn't the Cumans have been made playable ? (not to same lvl of GP features of course). They had new units, settlements, agents - they should have been a playable faction and added more variety to the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sargon-1 View Post
    Just remaking the architecture for one culture/faction would take at least a couple of months for a dedicated team, by which time we should start seeing the first Empire mods. Would there be a point, if by that time even the mod creators spend more time playing Empire than previous versions? Should CA release the source code for RTW tommorow, how many people would actually care? Personally, I'd be super interested, but only from the point of view of programming, not modding.

    Do you think that this is in fact a problem? And how can we deal with it, if it is?
    I can see where you're coming from - but you've basically answered your own question by stating that you feel MTW2 modding is over. I couldn't disagree more. If you expect to see total conversions for ETW in a few months then think again I am one of those who actually reckons CA are not gonna release anything approaching the modding tools they promised us. Look at the whole 'special unit' con, and the fact that mods have been told they can't use these units (which locked inside the retail version of the game). This attitude suggests that modding support from is CA is unlikely.

    I am of course bias, I am working on a mod that will not see release for a good while. Yes, I want loads of people to download it, but at the end of the day I want to create something fun that I will enjoy playing myself. If others do too, thats grand.
    Last edited by Yelü Dashi; March 26, 2009 at 01:48 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Yes yelü dashi has right, promotion is very important, and your promotion is very bad.

    Additional to what yelü said:

    Make your mod to here:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...p?do=cat&id=26

    And to here:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=734

    You need to show people that you have a mod, since how should they know.
    Also go to totalwar.org and http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.co and post about your great mod.



    Post this video
    Battle of Peremishl
    to polish tw board with link to the mod



    You can say here hello
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58644



    You should also not give everyone permission for your units.
    There are people who collect all the best from other mods and then release "own" mod.

  9. #9
    Louis Lux's Avatar Into the Light
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    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    I agree with many here, especially Silesian noble and Yelu dashi.

    The main concern in my opinion is that even though many additions were made some problems of the beta remained, you focused more on the new things and forgot to polish the basic things from the beta. In my experience the beta was much more stable then first release wich is strange.

    The best thing to do right now is to hold any new features and just focus on polishing the present release, and have an awesome page explaining the mod for the next release in the first page news. And even though the mod focus on russian factions it would be awesome to be able to play other factions with simplified gameplay, and be able to conquer the whole map (this is total war after all), possibly having an alternative release or addon.

  10. #10

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Quote Originally Posted by InfUA View Post
    You should also not give everyone permission for your units.
    There are people who collect all the best from other mods and then release "own" mod.
    What could you collect from Rusichi? Great Russian units! I think this is what Rusichi team aimed in – to popularize the true appearance of Rus medieval militarism – its uniqueness and beauty. I’m going to use their units in my project, thanks this I will have historical accurate Russian factions. Also I’m trying to make new Polish roster and will gladly agree to share those new Polish units with other great projects. The reason is the same – to popularize true appearance of Polish medieval armies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Lux View Post
    I agree with many here, especially Silesian noble and Yelu dashi.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Lux View Post
    The main concern in my opinion is that even though many additions were made some problems of the beta remained, you focused more on the new things and forgot to polish the basic things from the beta.
    Especially units stat balance – so many mistakes there made the battles unplayable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Lux View Post
    In my experience the beta was much more stable then first release wich is strange.
    Exactly. That is why I was so critical about the first 1.0 version of Rusichi (despite it contains many great stuff and have a great potential for further development).

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Lux View Post
    The best thing to do right now is to hold any new features and just focus on polishing the present release, and have an awesome page explaining the mod for the next release in the first page news. And even though the mod focus on russian factions it would be awesome to be able to play other factions with simplified gameplay, and be able to conquer the whole map (this is total war after all), possibly having an alternative release or addon.
    Wise words here, I second that.
    Last edited by Silesian_Noble; March 26, 2009 at 02:52 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Thanks for telling a real truth about our mistakes connected with the popularity of ours mods. I will try to answer on your remarks.
    1. Why we have made mod with Russian factions?
    The answer is: we need to know a reaction of users on Russian setting (СА does games with a stress on other principles)
    2. Why do we have the main (Russian) and supporting factions?
    The answer is: we are against GP of vanila
    3. Why we were not creating our forum on TWC for such along time?
    The answer is: it seemed to us, that Russian setting should be interested in RuNet, but we were mistaken: the interest of (RusichiTW) = 50:50, it can be seen by numbers of downloadings. The second important point which kept our activity for a long time-it is that in a branch of tread we had 800 viewings every day, but from it we had only 8 posts. For comparison SS or another popular mod showed result of 400 viewings in day and 50 viewings for one post. So it seemed that, users liked beautiful units, but Russian setting was not their interest.
    4. Why games of СА have popularity at level of several millions of users, and good mod has a maximum of 100 000 users? It is the main question for modding.
    The answer is: I do not know yet. Advertising? The best programmers?
    5. What shall moddings do in future?
    The answer is: to continue developing national mods and to struggle against vanil's

    We try to make advertising of ideas TW and Risichi.



    Here is an example of page TW (the address: www.totalworld.org), which we wish to make. "Pressing a planet" (address) the user will pass to a known site. Planets will correspond to sites TW, official site CA becomes the Sun in the centre of planet system and at last the list of sites :

    TWC
    TWORG
    Ciчь
    Маrka
    TWOW
    IMPERIAL
    Internetwars
    http://www.totalwars.ru/
    http://mods.totalwars.ru/
    Time of Changes

    Silesian_Noble.
    What could you collect from Rusichi? Great Russian units! I think this is what Rusichi team aimed in – to popularize the true appearance of Rus medieval militarism – its uniqueness and beauty. I’m going to use their units in my project, thanks this I will have historical accurate Russian factions. Also I’m trying to make new Polish roster and will gladly agree to share those new Polish units with other great projects. The reason is the same – to popularize true appearance of Polish medieval armies.

    Good idea and simultaneously good answer for modding.
    Last edited by Sargon-1; March 26, 2009 at 04:30 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Sargon, I think there are a few factors you’re not taking into account.

    1. Vanilla CA games have a lot of frustrating bugs when they first come out. It takes a lot of time, patches, and modder fixes before they run smoothly

    2. Most of us aren’t really interested in CA vanilla games. When we get really start to get excited about playing the games is when the good mods start coming out.

    3. M2TW was released at the end of 2006, it’s the beginning of 2009 and the modding community is still healthy. Look at upcoming mods like DotS, EBII, and The Last Kingdom that people are excited about and there all the regional mods that are taking historical accuracy to a new level – Lithuania Mod, Magyar Mod, CBUR, and your own. I think Medieval 2 modding just starting to get really interesting.

    4. Your team has proven that modders can make M2TW mods that look just as good as or better than newer CA releases. Combine that with all the discoveries made by modders that improve GP and I have to wonder why anyone would be interested in modding ETW into a medieval game. It will be a long time before we see really good mods for ETW that are outside its intended timeframe (years?).

    5. If downloads of your mod are slowing down, it’s only because most have your fanbase already have the game. Watch how many downloads you get when you release a patch or your next mod, then you’ll see how many people are still interested.

    You should also not give everyone permission for your units.
    There are people who collect all the best from other mods and then release "own" mod
    Um.. WTF? Nobody uses Rusichi models without giving proper credit. Modding isn’t a competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    What could you collect from Rusichi? Great Russian units! I think this is what Rusichi team aimed in – to popularize the true appearance of Rus medieval militarism – its uniqueness and beauty. I’m going to use their units in my project, thanks this I will have historical accurate Russian factions. Also I’m trying to make new Polish roster and will gladly agree to share those new Polish units with other great projects. The reason is the same – to popularize true appearance of Polish medieval armies.
    Exactly!! One of the reasons modders can create such interesting games is because of the sharing of resources and research.


    +1 rep to Silesian for saying what needed to be said, and for his ongoing participation in the resource sharing modding community.


    And +1 rep to Sargon in case he ever enables his reputation counter.
    Last edited by sumskilz; March 26, 2009 at 04:46 PM. Reason: organization

  13. #13

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Um.. WTF? Nobody uses Rusichi models without giving proper credit. Modding isn’t a competition.
    What are you talking about, you think everybody has to give his own work, own units, a year of work, away for your crappy credits?
    This guys share best untis in m2tw for nothing so thank them for being so generous and maybe artless(?), its not self-evident.


    ---
    There are still most players from western or western like countries without many interest to RUS history. All you have for them are your units, if you give your units away, most of them will not play your mod about RUS but play other mods and watch on your units like addon in the mods of others.

    So if you only want share your graphics then give them to everybody away but if you want people play history of RUS, play your mod, play a russian mod, you should keep what you can best, these are your units and by time also rework сами с вашим скиллом other factions making your mod bigger.
    Я тут не собираюсь с этими, кто на халяву такие графики получить хочет, спорить, сами подумайте, что вам важнее и решайте.

  14. #14

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Quote Originally Posted by InfUA View Post
    There are still most players from western or western like countries without many interest to RUS history. All you have for them are your units, if you give your units away, most of them will not play your mod about RUS but play other mods and watch on your units like addon in the mods of others.

    So if you only want share your graphics then give them to everybody away but if you want people play history of RUS, play your mod, play a russian mod, you should keep what you can best, these are your units and by time also rework сами с вашим скиллом other factions making your mod bigger.
    How are these things mutually exclusive? One can be interested in the Rusichi mod and also want nice looking historically accurate units for their own mod. The Rusichi mod got me interested in learning more about Russian medieval history, but I also like to see their units in other mods. The Marka team represents their country well to the rest of the community.

  15. #15
    Louis Lux's Avatar Into the Light
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    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    I see you are really adamant about the conceptual part of the mod, but I think enabling popular TW features maybe as a sub-mod wouldn't hurt your mod's concept, for example in a commercial game even if multiplayer is not a priority it's still made available because it's a popular feature. Probably it would make the mod more popular (it seems like it is a concern of yours) and more people would play as the Russian factions. More playable factions and the possibility of taking non-rus territory would also raise the replay value of the mod. I guess you don't like the quick expansion of vanilla, this could be averted by making it near impossible to take and keep non-rus territories (garisson scripts, high religious unrest, distance to capital unrest) making it very hard is much more interesting then making it impossible (player liberty is really important).

    Unique gameplay and best looking units ever made is enough to make this one of the most popular mods in twcenter. And it fills the necessity of a better representation of the baltic/steppes, that is very poor in vanilla, this alone would attract many people.

    All of this with a front page news and an organized sub-forum will make the downloads soar.

  16. #16

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    The amount of effort required to create a medieval mod using ETW would be massive, and the payoff is questionnable.

  17. #17
    sinople's Avatar These Romans are crazy!
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    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    If you are interested, at the french board we have a lot of fans of RuTW.

    Here are some topics about the mod : http://www.universtotalwar.fr/Forum/...?showforum=134 (tchouk has already post there)

    And here is the topic about our WIP translation : http://www.universtotalwar.fr/Forum/...showtopic=2611

    Certainly nothing compared to huge forums like twc and tworg, but just what we need for french users

  18. #18

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    First, I want to talk about the reasons behind the creation of Rusichi TW. The major reason - the complete lack of historical accuracy in both historical role and appearance for the vanilla Russian faction. This isn't news, though: CA's focus has never been on those and other parts of the world. This descrepancy between actual history and vanilla TW is the reason behind a lot of mods, mods like B.C. or Lithuania mod.

    The second reason: the stubborn vanilla AI. It's impossible to break its grip, but you can change the game-play by making breaking the vanilla balance through scripted events and the like. Not without compromises, however, as the AI engine has a very large inertion and breaking the balance in a viable way is actually very difficult. This is what we've done in Rusichi. Look at the game-play from the point of view of the factions. The core of the game-play, the primary level, is made up of the three playable Russian factions. This primary level is made up of a complex economy (build tree etc.), unit balance, and a large system of scripts. The secondary level is tied with "helper" factions, the factions that interact with Rus' lands by way of hard scripted historical events to create a semblance of historical accuracy; this would be the Mongols and other steppe peoples, the Teutonic Order and Luthuania. For example, the way the Mongolian Horde appears, takes over Cuman steppe lands and falls apart into three friendly Mongolian factions. The last level are all the other factions, mostly there to create an entourage without breaking the historical game-play scenario we tried to creat for the first two levels. This last part is key: without breaking.

    We have these three different types of factions, but, unfortunatley, only one, very stubbornly vanilla, AI. This suits our game-play concept, because the same AI starts to make different decisions for different types of factions, and by breaking in this way the vanilla concept of "all factions are created equal" you start to break the vanilla game-play. For example, a weak (unit-balance wise) Byzantium leads to the fact that the Byzantine faction never really attacks Kiev, even if the two factions are at war. Conversely, Kiev can't capture Byzantium, for all its units are weaker, because this disability is hard-coded into the mod (Byzantine cities revolt by default). Byzantium is unable to conquer Poland or Hungary, is unable to capture the map.

    The whole point of the mod was making something as different as possible from vanilla. Making the factions equal in strength, like it is in vanilla, forcibly leads to a vanilla scenario: one-two factions will conquer the whole map. And even if the map and units are different, that type of mod has been done to death already.

  19. #19

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Lux View Post
    I see you are really adamant about the conceptual part of the mod, but I think enabling popular TW features maybe as a sub-mod wouldn't hurt your mod's concept, for example in a commercial game even if multiplayer is not a priority it's still made available because it's a popular feature. Probably it would make the mod more popular (it seems like it is a concern of yours) and more people would play as the Russian factions. More playable factions and the possibility of taking non-rus territory would also raise the replay value of the mod. I guess you don't like the quick expansion of vanilla, this could be averted by making it near impossible to take and keep non-rus territories (garisson scripts, high religious unrest, distance to capital unrest) making it very hard is much more interesting then making it impossible (player liberty is really important).

    Unique gameplay and best looking units ever made is enough to make this one of the most popular mods in twcenter. And it fills the necessity of a better representation of the baltic/steppes, that is very poor in vanilla, this alone would attract many people.

    All of this with a front page news and an organized sub-forum will make the downloads soar.
    Popularity is a secondary concern, though.

    We made a mistake with 1.0, probably. Should have been maybe 1.0 beta, because a week of beta testing by us was clearly not enough, especially since some bugs (like the horse death animation) were obvious, but we didn't have time to fix for the promised release date.

    Player liberty is very important, but full liberty forcibly leads to a +- vanilla clone, gameplay wise. It's a compromise that we haven't figured out quite yet.

    One of the big reasons for the mod that Sargon didin't mention is actually this: it was a test of boundaries. Our understanding of the way the AI works, for example in its handling of the three different types of factions, has grown immensely in making this mod. Not enough to make the game completely balanced in, for example, the custom battles, but I think we'll get there.
    English 1.0 Studia Marka™

  20. #20

    Default Re: RusichiTW: lifetime < O

    Here's the the problem I see. This mod had every opportunity to be released here on TWC in such a way that everyone would have been downloading it especially considering we are maxing out at around 2,000 visitors during the day time in the western hemisphere.

    But some things to think about, the release wasn't even announced properly in the thread and when it was there was no subforum and no front page news.

    If you want to get an idea of the type of exposure that was missed all you have to do is ask how many downloads Broken Crescent had, when it was on the front page for a week or two. Not only was it on the front page, but it had a subforum well ahead of time where people continued to gather and learn about the mod. So marketing has failed here on TWC the largest western fan site that I can think of.

    However if you want to discuss lifetime that is fine, but I will tell you to consider the fact that popularity comes with knowing about the mod. Right now many people still don't know. But another thing to look at is the fact that RTW has probably the most mods of which still many many people play. The RTW community is a die hard community, they have no plans on stopping to play it.

    It's kinda like why do 30 or 40 thousand people still play Diablo on battlenet? Why after all these years? Well maybe they can't aford to upgrade, maybe they love the game that much. Maybe it's both.

    But! If you are asking permission to start modding Empire TW, I will grant my full support. However I do not at all believe that M2 is dead. Many people although RTW diehard, will be upgrading from that community to Medieval community. They won't necessarily be going straight to Empire from Rome...

    Just check the RTW hosted mods section here for an idea. And our Highly, Highly active RTW multiplayer subforum
    Last edited by Armatus; March 27, 2009 at 07:10 AM.

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