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Thread: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

  1. #1

    Default before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    there are some things i need to clarify in my mind as to how this will actually work, and to what degree it can represent a mythological world.

    1. should there be armies of mythological creatures etc? is that a true representation of how myths were?

    2. should the creatures be singular ~ if so how do we implement that?

    3. if so then would massive armies fight them or small bands or elite warriors?

    4. should gods exist in battles?

    5. can we actually make a suitable map?

    6. can we make anims for giant creatures so they are not fighting air above the soldiers heads?

    7. do many people actually like fantasy mods?

    8. or should we make the necessary corrections for the current version, release that, and see if any experienced modders get interested?

    if we can answer all of the above [1-7] in the affirmative then yes lets go ahead, if not then 8.
    Last edited by Amorphos; March 25, 2009 at 04:16 PM.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  2. #2

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    2.Can't make units singular ~ Look at sauron or fellbeast in LOTR-TW What you can do , is make the singular units general from some kind of units .. And customize that general (only possible in Alex TW)

    1. Yes there should be ..

    4. Yes they should exist

    5. Yes we can

    6. Take troll animations

  3. #3

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    hi theo

    there are other ways of making single units, but they get trashed by archers. we can give arrows an accuracy value [as like scorpions etc] which may help. ...but would big armies have attacked them?

    nice idea about the troll anims!

    you think we can make a ‘historical’ game then?

    sorry to sound negative but i got to get it all clear in my mind, before i commit to another 300 hours of work. there are other mods we could make instead.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  4. #4
    margio's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    1. Yes, as Centauromachi between Centaurs and Lapitae.
    2. Don't know if it feasible, maybe with ghost units? Somewhere this matter was mentioned/discussed... by you if I remeber well.
    3. Do you mean big creatures like Hydra, Cerberus? Unfortunately that it will be decided anyway by the player I think.
    4. Yes, but maybe more than gods like Zeus, maybe more interesting elite units like Titans, Giants like Poliphemus
    5. I think that only Theo could reply... and he did ...
    6. Troll animations it's the right reply... again ...
    7. It can be true that mythology is not well known, but look at EOD I, EOD II (I beta tested it ...), and all Tolkien based mod. BTW that question could be an interesting public poll...
    ...
    8. It's a very hard question...

    ayeaye Sirs
    Last edited by margio; March 25, 2009 at 04:06 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    hi margio, so you think its possible but we could change the format a little.

    lotr has a big fan base all of its own. i imagined that we would get at least 1 or 2 experienced modders interested, but we didn’t, they are in far shorter supply than i thought.

    after seeing solo’s units i would love to see it all come together, i guess we can but try.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  6. #6
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    2. You could maybe make them singular by using this descr_mount text. (Just fill in the brackets with the appropriate text) Do not fill in the parantheses. They're just notes for the text for you.

    type [what the creature's name is]
    class elephant
    model [the model for that creature]
    radius [the reach of the creature]*
    height [the height you want for the creature]
    mass [the mass you want for the creature]
    banner_height 0
    bouyancy_offset 0
    water_trail_effect horse_water_trail
    root_node_height 0
    attack_delay 1
    dead_radius 1
    tusk_z 0
    tusk_radius 3
    riders [the amount of soldiers in that unit +1]**
    rider_offset 0.5, 0, 0
    rider_offset 0, 0.5, 0
    rider_offset 0, 0, 0.5
    rider_offset -0.5, 0, 0
    rider_offset 0, -0.5, 0
    rider_offset 0, -0, -0.5
    rider_offset 0, 0, 0

    Here are some important things you should know about this:
    1. It is NOT perfect, but it works great
    2. it will keep it one unit so archers won't decimate it as with other ways.
    3. it acts like one unit (sort of).
    4. There will be no models sticking out of it if you create an invisble rider.
    5. The unit might have to get an AI change as it will sometimes just keep running through units.

    I hope this method will help you.

    * I'm not exactly sure about this one as I don't mess around with this as much.
    ** I would recommend 7 for this. This is because the minimal amount of soldiers a unit can have is six, and then I add 1 just in case that unit has a general or something like that. I also never tried having more than 7 per mount.
    Last edited by The Holy Pilgrim; March 25, 2009 at 06:35 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    thanks holy pilgrim

    there is also a method using general units aradan told me about.

    just one question, why would you have 7 riders?

    btw has anyone ever tried to find out just how many riders you can have ~ it would be fun if more than 60 [unit limit]! we could then change the rider offsets to produce different formations like triangles etc. just an idea that popped into my head.

    thanks mate
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  8. #8
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    just one question, why would you have 7 riders?
    It's just because I usually set the amount of riders to 6 (because thats the minimal amount of soldiers you can have in a unit and I usually set a "hero" unit to that number) and then I add 1 for the captain or general so he doesn't have his own mount.

    Oh yeah, just to let you know:
    1. I play on normal scale battles because I have a kind of crappy computer.
    2. I updated the other post.

  9. #9

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    6 is the minimal you can set in the EDU, i think you can have less in desc_mount...

    type elephant forest
    riders 2
    rider_offset 0.0, 1.0, 0.75
    rider_offset 0.0, 1.1, 0.05

    i may be wrong but i don’t think captains have there own mounts for elephants.

    hopefully even with a crappy pc, you should be able to play the mod as it stands, but definitely not if we double size the skins to make high res units. ...but as you are helpful i can give you a link for the rtw version if we do go ahead with the remake!

    you should also be able to play sparta_tw [out at the weekend], some of the units are high res, but you can resize them to 256 if you like or at worst have unit settings on small.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  10. #10
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    You're a great person making a great mod. Thank you. <-- (tears of thanks and joy)

    + rep for you and your teams great work and appreciation for Greek Mythology and for not rushing this mod too quickly.

    Now if only I had a list of everyone on the team and a place to find them so I can give you all +rep for your outstanding achievements.

  11. #11

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    um there should be a members list on the recruitment thread. its mainly solo, legio and agisilaos. most of the others have left or not actually done anything lols.

    btw if your pc play mtw2 and etw, you should easily be able to play these on full settings. at most turn off shadows and anti-aliasing.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  12. #12
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    btw if your pc play mtw2 and etw, you should easily be able to play these on full settings. at most turn off shadows and anti-aliasing.
    Thing is that I have to play ETW with all settings set on the lowest value possible to even get it to run slightly smooth. I need to upgrade my computer pretty badly.

    Oh, and thanks for telling me were I can find the team members!

  13. #13
    margio's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    I thought more about your "thoughts" for this matter. I would like to act as "devil’s lawyer", that is a way to say (here where I live) that means to speak about a matter not because convinced, but just to start a debate (if allowed and useful… and hoping you became positive…).
    The choice is to work on New Myth, release Myth (after corrections) as it is, work on other mods.
    1) Myth will be "rebuilt"as a completely new mod:
    * doing that means hundreds hours commitment (plus restless nights by tons of coffees …) to mod new ideas that came up for the "New Myth". Furthermore with the thought that it could be played by members/few others players… It would be "created" a unique mod, never seen, different from others mods that focus on historycal periods (with the known exceptions…)
    2) Myth will be released (after tests/corrections) as it is now:
    * doing that you would release a mod that looks very very good (based on previews). You can check the interests within players and modders and then based on issues work eventually on a Myth II. There are several mods that for the release two changed many and many parts.
    3) Time will be employed to work on other mods:
    * firstly should be interesting to know which mods, but I feel that you are not thinking to Sparta IV with focus on factions left vanilla working for example. You can get new ideas, new modders, new feelings…

    Personally I didn’t change my opinion written in the previous post, but it would be useful I think to know what public thinks about, as it can be a first reply to you for your thoughts…
    Hope to be useful and not tedious

    ayeaye Sir




  14. #14

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    @ HolyPelgrim : I think that your method is the one that LOTR-TW uses for it trolls/fellbeast/sauron .. I would suggest to do it with egnerals , so that for instance zeus has 6 command , 10 influence , and 9 management .. And that Ares or Athena has 10 command , but less other stuff etc ...

  15. #15

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    Unfortunately it is impossible to do one-man heroes on huge unit sizes. I've tried it, and it will work in the campaign at first, but once you load a saved game, it reverts back to 4 mounts for some reason. HOWEVER, I did find a way to do one-man units through scripting (Actually, the LOTR-TW team came up with this, and I fiddled with it a little and it works pretty well). It goes something like this:

    label_unit 0 0 0 General_1
    label_unit 1 0 0 General_2

    if unit_formation General_1 = horde
    reduce_unit_strength General_1 100
    end_if

    if unit_formation General_2 = horde
    reduce_unit_strength General_2 100
    end_if

    I'm not sure if that's totally accurate, but it's essentially what you need. Use the horde formation only for hero units; make them infantry units and give them very high stats. Reducing unit strength by 100% does not kill the general or any officers, and if you make the soldier models invisible, there won't be any dead bodies laying about the battlefield. This method is kind of annoying because you have to change the script before you run it depending on how many hero units are in each army, but it works no matter what the unit size.
    Make America great again!

  16. #16

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    Great job ! Although i think all single unit-meant characters should be generals (exccept Cerberus maybe )

  17. #17

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    That's the point--you do it with the general units, although it will work with other units that have officers (I think).
    Make America great again!

  18. #18

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    Kk .. I suggest we give Cerberus as a mount to Hades (if possible ofcourse ..) So i think that it's best to use your method then , right ?

  19. #19

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    it is possible to make 1 man units on high unit numbers, the traits of the general have to be low [so that the generals guard unit size isn’t increased]. i have a pm about it from aradan ~ i'll try to locate it.

    in alex there can be single man units like alexander yes, so we would just dispose of his soldiers; perhaps this can be done by scaling the sceleton they use to 0.001 or somthing tiny and making them invisible, then making the unit spacing 0.0, 0.1. hmm we still may end up with units attacking the air where it thinks a unit is?

    problem is that they have to be generals guard units. perhaps we can make some rebel generals, i don’t know what the limit is.

    margio,

    good thoughts there, i think there is no point to making all the unit cards etc ~ needed to finish the current version, considering that we are going to change most of it. many of the human units are in sparta so no loss there.

    i may indeed make sparta_IV or another mod [i am open to ideas!] such as one based on the celts, or indeed a briton specific mod [taking it through the ages].
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  20. #20

    Default Re: before we progress with a new myth_tw...

    I suggest we first work on myth , then do another mod I would like to see a fantasy+historic mod , for instance having greeks , celts and romans fighting ugly creatues etc .. Something like Gods&Fighting men , but still a bit different ..

    @ Quetzal : No rebel generals .. The scripting stuff we talked about is mainly for the greeks (/Olympians) , so they won't be rebels // unless ofcourse , we could also make them spawn on other moments/conditions

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