Completely new and revised remodelled Preussens gloria (V1.2) 27/5/2012

[A_Menzel]

Hi A.Menzel!
Uniforms of polish were modelled on saxon and under hat grenadiers were similar to fusilier.
Great pictures!
I have a little trouble with the finding more ilustrations of polish army.

I was hoping you might be able to find some more materials perhaps in Polish, because my sources are limited to only German and English. As I said above, the Saxon influences on Polish troops were strong, and vice versa, because they shared the king for a while. Maybe it is a bit similar to Hannovarians and British.
Let's hope our genius Megasalexandros would be generous enough to use his talent for Saxony/Poland in the not too far future!

[Herr Doctor]

And as Szwajcar pointed out, if you make early Saxons, you'll get Polish units as well. Since Augustus the Strong was also elected king of Poland, which brought Western/German influences on Polish troops, and Eastern/Polish influences on Saxon Troops. Maybe you can make even the king himself as well.

You are right. After the 1717 army reform the Polish and Lithuanian armies (as there were two very close but separate military structures in Poland-Lithuania) looked very modern and almost identical to the Saxon.
It is kind of funny considering the manpower potential of Saxony and Poland-Lithuania but they were similar even by the army sizes as the Polish-Lithuanian troops numbers were drastically cut off: 18.000 for Poland and 6.000 for Lithuania. So really very small.

[Herr Doctor]

I was hoping you might be able to find some more materials perhaps in Polish, because my sources are limited to only German and English. As I said above, the Saxon influences on Polish troops were strong, and vice versa, because they shared the king for a while. Maybe it is a bit similar to Hannovarians and British.
Let's hope our genius Megasalexandros would be generous enough to use his talent for Saxony/Poland in the not too far future!

I believe there are tons of pictures and information here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=117906

[Megasalexandros]

Iam already planning to make most of the prominent Germanic states in empire, so that would include i think, saxons, hannoverians, etc
Thanks A Menzel, but calling me a genius is quite far fetched, but i sincerely trying to do the best i can .
I can certainly use your help in the form of unit suggestions, just tell me which unit you would like to see ,suggest somethnig, that would help me alot to decide what to do in the future.



Also about your question for the buckle, i think it looks nice from the distance that i can see it.
But as i've told you ,you dont have to be concerned for that buckle thing, i will correct it in the model, in fact if you want i can send you a model with a narrower buckle and tell me what corrections does it need.

[A_Menzel]

You are right. After the 1717 army reform the Polish and Lithuanian armies (as there were two very close but separate military structures in Poland-Lithuania) looked very modern and almost identical to the Saxon.
It is kind of funny considering the manpower potential of Saxony and Poland-Lithuania but they were similar even by the army sizes as the Polish-Lithuanian troops numbers were drastically cut off: 18.000 for Poland and 6.000 for Lithuania. So really very small.

I believe there are tons of pictures and information here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=117906

I do not have the numbers at hand, but I think Saxony had only 10 or 12 infantry regiments and some cavalry regiments under Augustus the Strong. Although he dreamt to counquer lands besides ladies, he wasn't a gifted general like his son (illegitimate) Moritz (Maurice de Saxe) and Saxony was in finacial ruins due to his overspendings. Saxony could not afford a huge army like Prussia.
I have seen that thread, but have not visited for a while. Thanks for bringing it up.

Iam already planning to make most of the prominent Germanic states in empire, so that would include i think, saxons, hannoverians, etc
Thanks A Menzel, but calling me a genius is quite far fetched, but i sincerely trying to do the best i can .
I can certainly use your help in the form of unit suggestions, just tell me which unit you would like to see ,suggest somethnig, that would help me alot to decide what to do in the future.

OK, you are a magician then. Actually I know it is not an inspirations or magic but a lot of hard and tedious work on your side, and I admire that very much.
I thought you were not much interested in early Saxons, as they look kind of British you said.
The musketeers are kind of a standard type. So if you ever make the Prussians from 1730s under Frederick William I, with opened tunic, I could just re-texture them into Saxons/Polish. The only special model we need is the grenadier we have been discussing about, unless you want some exotic ones like the Janissaries.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But before going on to other states, could I suggest two things for SYW Prussians.
One is making a shorter busby (Pelzmütze) for the 2nd Hussars, the other is replacing the cap for the bombardiers with the new fusilier cap you just made.

Also about your question for the buckle, i think it looks nice from the distance that i can see it.
But as i've told you ,you dont have to be concerned for that buckle thing, i will correct it in the model, in fact if you want i can send you a model with a narrower buckle and tell me what corrections does it need.

OK, I'll leave that to you. It would save my time if I do not need to correct all the alpha channels for the textures I made.
I finished IR13. Perhaps I should have used the model for the officer of the guard, because some sources depicts an aiguilette on officer's tunic.

[Biggus Splenus]

IR13 had straw coloured undercoat, breaches, lapels, etc. like in this picture: http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.p..._of_Prague.jpg

But in your screen shot, all that is white.

I love them anyway

[A_Menzel]

IR13 had straw coloured undercoat, breaches, lapels, etc. like in this picture: http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.p..._of_Prague.jpg

But in your screen shot, all that is white.

I love them anyway

No, it wasn't straw which was used for waistcoat/breeches of some regiments. It is actually very light paille/straw, as depicted in most drawings as almost white.
Your picture by Knötel obviously does not show the colour correctly as evident in the colour of the faces. Did you also see the uniform plate in Kronoskaf for this regiment? That's not my source, by the way.
This is a period drawing from 1759.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also wanted to distinguish it from IR5. I might change the colour later, but it is difficult to show light colours in this game.

[wangrin]

First of all, congratulations (again ^^) for this beautiful mod.
Congratulation to Megasalexandros of course and to A_Menzel too for its amazing research and textures.

British are on the work for I.S.
Flikitos and I have to finish early XVIIIth century ones to release the I.S 2.2.1 beta then we will work on SYW British models.

So, you will be able to use and modify theirs models soon.

[Megasalexandros]

Thanks Wangrin for your offer, and i must again remind to the community here that everything that iam able to do is because of Wangrin and his dedication of helping me with every single inquire that i had , no matter how irritating that could have been for him, it is because of his patience and generocity that iam able to modify models.Thanks Wangrin again.

A_Menzel, fistly ,it is of course irrelevant to say how much i like your textures , as for the colour of the 13th regiments turbacks i really gave up on deciding what should have been the correct one, every single source that i have has a different version of the 13th regiment turnback colours.

Also Menzel have you noticed that the above saxon regiments have almost exactly the same coats ,equipment etc with the Lange kerls that i've made?
The only thing i have to make for a similar musketeer is to give the model a tricorn instead of the Lange kerl grenadier cap and , for the saxon grenadier, to make the above cap, which would be really really easy , i must only modify the fusilier cap.

Can you explain which part you mean of the second hussar ,that i must modify?
As for the bombardiers ,that is really easy, 3 or 4 minutes of work, dont worry.

[king of prussia]

I have been getting a crash but i did everything properly this is the crash script

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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[Biggus Splenus]

I dont think that crash script helps at all

It may be your user script thats causing problems, or maybe some mods that your trying to use together.

[Flikitos]

Y>éw(pƒ Öæwj3éwè Üþú '[÷ Ð6„HþûHþð7„7„ ä/ Ð6„ ¢ Ü7„Ü7„ Ø¢¶ Ðh� 8þú Äÿú Õpëw7~ë ”ÿú w6«uÐ6„Ôÿú BŸçwÐ6„{[÷ Ð6„ ÿú ÿÿÿÿÕpëwÿaë ìÿú ŸçwY>éwÐ6„ Y>éwÐ6„ Öæwj3éw` Üþû'[ö~ (pƒHþËHþú dpƒPþð À- (pƒ Œ|ƒŒ|ƒ àع ��¶ À^ƒ 8þû

That line seems to be really interesting.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[A_Menzel]

First of all, congratulations (again ^^) for this beautiful mod.
Congratulation to Megasalexandros of course and to A_Menzel too for its amazing research and textures.
British are on the work for I.S.
Flikitos and I have to finish early XVIIIth century ones to release the I.S 2.2.1 beta then we will work on SYW British models.
So, you will be able to use and modify theirs models soon.

Thank you for the complement, but my work is nothing compare to what Megasalexandros is doing.
And thank you for providing us all with wonderful new models. I am sorry I still have not solved the problem with incorporating you guns into Preussen Gloria mod. I will do it from scratch later, maybe with your new howitzers.

A_Menzel, fistly ,it is of course irrelevant to say how much i like your textures , as for the colour of the 13th regiments turbacks i really gave up on deciding what should have been the correct one, every single source that i have has a different version of the 13th regiment turnback colours.

I changed the colour. I know it looks kind of greenish, but if I add more yellow, then it might shine. Let's settle for this for now. Yes, as you say colour could vary by sources, and even if you decide on it, then there is the difficulty of controlling the light colours.
I am now working on IR19, the hardest part, the drummer! Now I am taking a break in the middle, and am here.

Also Menzel have you noticed that the above saxon regiments have almost exactly the same coats ,equipment etc with the Lange kerls that i've made?
The only thing i have to make for a similar musketeer is to give the model a tricorn instead of the Lange kerl grenadier cap and , for the saxon grenadier, to make the above cap, which would be really really easy , i must only modify the fusilier cap.

I think you missed one line from my post before the last one. I'll quote myself.
"The musketeers are kind of a standard type. So if you ever make the Prussians from 1730s under Frederick William I, with opened tunic, I could just re-texture them into Saxons/Polish. The only special model we need is the grenadier we have been discussing about, unless you want some exotic ones like the Janissaries."
So I'll just wait for you to make the Prussians under Frederick William I, then I will re-texture the musketeers, and you can make the Saxon/Polish grenadiers when you have time then.

Can you explain which part you mean of the second hussar ,that i must modify?

Actually, I explained it to you before in a pm. It is also mentioned in Osprey's book on Frederick's cavalry by Philip Haythornthwaite. The hight of the busby (Pelzmütze) changed through time, and it was shorter, almost half the hight of later ones, probably until around the middle of the SYW. According to Haythornthwaite (Osprey), it was 6 in. initially, then increased to 11 in. for H1 and H4, 12in. for H2 and H3. I could not find exact figures mentioned in my German sources.
If you look though the Osprey book carefully, forget the colour plates for now, you will also find a drawing by Richard Knötel in black and white depicting hussars (H2) escorting the King's carriage, you will find another drawing or engraving by Menzel depicting early hussars. The author does make a note on both cases. I show you some pictures from other sources.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Those are officers' portraits from earlier period, two from H2 and one from H3. Officers did have some liberty as always, so they may not be good examples, but should give you some ideas.



I think I sent you these photos of a figurine to you before. I think this could be an excellent reference for making models.


This drawing by Knötel is the same as the one in Osprey's book, except it is coloured.

Another drawing by Knötel (could be Herbert Knötel, not Richard?)
It is interesting that the busby becomes shorter again a century and a half later.

As for the bombardiers ,that is really easy, 3 or 4 minutes of work, dont worry.

If you have more than 3 or 4 minutes, could you make the side turn-ups straight?

[Megasalexandros]

Thank you for the complement, but my work is nothing compare to what Megasalexandros is doing.
And thank you for providing us all with wonderful new models. I am sorry I still have not solved the problem with incorporating you guns into Preussen Gloria mod. I will do it from scratch later, maybe with your new howitzers.

I changed the colour. I know it looks kind of greenish, but if I add more yellow, then it might shine. Let's settle for this for now. Yes, as you say colour could vary by sources, and even if you decide on it, then there is the difficulty of controlling the light colours.
I am now working on IR19, the hardest part, the drummer! Now I am taking a break in the middle, and am here.


I think you missed one line from my post before the last one. I'll quote myself.
"The musketeers are kind of a standard type. So if you ever make the Prussians from 1730s under Frederick William I, with opened tunic, I could just re-texture them into Saxons/Polish. The only special model we need is the grenadier we have been discussing about, unless you want some exotic ones like the Janissaries."
So I'll just wait for you to make the Prussians under Frederick William I, then I will re-texture the musketeers, and you can make the Saxon/Polish grenadiers when you have time then.

Actually, I explained it to you before in a pm. It is also mentioned in Osprey's book on Frederick's cavalry by Philip Haythornthwaite. The hight of the busby (Pelzmütze) changed through time, and it was shorter, almost half the hight of later ones, probably until around the middle of the SYW. According to Haythornthwaite (Osprey), it was 6 in. initially, then increased to 11 in. for H1 and H4, 12in. for H2 and H3. I could not find exact figures mentioned in my German sources.
If you look though the Osprey book carefully, forget the colour plates for now, you will also find a drawing by Richard Knötel in black and white depicting hussars (H2) escorting the King's carriage, you will find another drawing or engraving by Menzel depicting early hussars. The author does make a note on both cases. I show you some pictures from other sources.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Those are officers' portraits from earlier period, two from H2 and one from H3. Officers did have some liberty as always, so they may not be good examples, but should give you some ideas.



I think I sent you these photos of a figurine to you before. I think this could be an excellent reference for making models.


This drawing by Knötel is the same as the one in Osprey's book, except it is coloured.

Another drawing by Knötel (could be Herbert Knötel, not Richard?)
It is interesting that the busby becomes shorter again a century and a half later.

If you have more than 3 or 4 minutes, could you make the side turn-ups straight?

Hmm ok then, ill make the busby or however its called shorter, you said it was shorter until the middle of the SYW? Do you think that it will look better? I quite liked those legthy bear skin caps, but this is even easier.

As for the cap for the bombardiers i can certainly straighten the "crown".


Finally, yes i have read your lines about the saxon grenadiers, thats why i have mentioned to you the body of the Lange kerls, apart from their cap as usable for those troops.
(I dont think that ill make the Frederick the I troops for a variety of reasons, including the lack of my sources and their minor war participation, but maybe in the future i could think about it. If the model of the saxons are usable for the Frederick I prussians, then if you want as you said you can make the textures for them)

[Biggus Splenus]

I've implemented NPI's cannons into the Kaunitz Project, so I could help you doing this, or send you the files

[king of prussia]

megas acording to most people my crash script isn't relevant. So I will post my user script here

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

mod "aum_mod_dm.pack";
mod "darthmod.pack";
mod "DMUC_Arrows.pack";
mod "DMUC_AUM.pack";
mod "DMUC_Borders.pack";
mod "DMUC_BSM.pack";
mod "DMUC_CAN.pack";
mod "DMUC_Core.pack";
mod "DMUC_Custom.pack";
mod "DMUC_Deploy.pack";
mod "DMUC_DFM.pack";
mod "DMUC_Fonts.pack";
mod "DMUC_FORTS.pack";
mod "DMUC_Grenades.pack";
mod "DMUC_HUD.pack";
mod "DMUC_Markers.pack";
mod "DMUC_MUSIC.pack";
mod "DMUC_Natives.pack";
mod "DMUC_Navy.pack";
mod "DMUC_NoTrails.pack";
mod "DMUC_Skies.pack";
mod "DMUC_SkinPack.pack";
mod "DMUC_Sounds.pack";
mod "DMUC_Tech.pack";
mod "DMUC_UnitsPack.pack";
mod "DMUC_Update.pack";
mod "Frederick.pack";
mod Preussens_gloria.pack;
mod "sponge.pack";

[A_Menzel]

Hmm ok then, ill make the busby or however its called shorter, you said it was shorter until the middle of the SYW? Do you think that it will look better? I quite liked those legthy bear skin caps, but this is even easier.

As for the cap for the bombardiers i can certainly straighten the "crown".

Finally, yes i have read your lines about the saxon grenadiers, thats why i have mentioned to you the body of the Lange kerls, apart from their cap as usable for those troops.
(I dont think that ill make the Frederick the I troops for a variety of reasons, including the lack of my sources and their minor war participation, but maybe in the future i could think about it. If the model of the saxons are usable for the Frederick I prussians, then if you want as you said you can make the textures for them)

I do not know if it would look better, but I am suggesting that, because you are making the headdress of other arms in early style.
OK good. So you will modify the Krone. I'll make the textures.

Do you mean Frederick William I? Are you seriously going to miss the army under the Soldier King?
Prussian army became really "Prussian" in its outlook and descipline under Frederick William I. His army is far better documented than the army under Frederick I you are making. There are books on uniforms of all the regiments for 1729 and 1737, the latter for all ranks. That is the Dessauer Spezifikation I have mentioned several times.
Prussia participated in the Great Northern War and also relatively large force went to the Rhine in the War of the Polish Succession under the King and the "Great" crown prince.
There is a popular myth even in Germany that he did not want to commit his toy soldiers to actual combat, but that is not true. The Prussian troops sent to the Rhine did not see major actions, because of the distrust among the Reich troops.

Meanwhile, I finished the 19th Regiment.

I've implemented NPI's cannons into the Kaunitz Project, so I could help you doing this, or send you the files

Thank you for your offer Splenyi.
I was trying to incorporate cannons made by Wangrin with prussianised textures into this mod, but there seemed to be some glitches, which even Wangrin could not sort out completely. It is working perfectly as a separate mod, as I have shown some pictures of the Prussian cannons here.
If my next try to combine the mods fail again, I might ask for your help.

[A_Menzel]

megas acording to most people my crash script isn't relevant. So I will post my user script here

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

mod "aum_mod_dm.pack";
mod "darthmod.pack";
mod "DMUC_Arrows.pack";
mod "DMUC_AUM.pack";
mod "DMUC_Borders.pack";
mod "DMUC_BSM.pack";
mod "DMUC_CAN.pack";
mod "DMUC_Core.pack";
mod "DMUC_Custom.pack";
mod "DMUC_Deploy.pack";
mod "DMUC_DFM.pack";
mod "DMUC_Fonts.pack";
mod "DMUC_FORTS.pack";
mod "DMUC_Grenades.pack";
mod "DMUC_HUD.pack";
mod "DMUC_Markers.pack";
mod "DMUC_MUSIC.pack";
mod "DMUC_Natives.pack";
mod "DMUC_Navy.pack";
mod "DMUC_NoTrails.pack";
mod "DMUC_Skies.pack";
mod "DMUC_SkinPack.pack";
mod "DMUC_Sounds.pack";
mod "DMUC_Tech.pack";
mod "DMUC_UnitsPack.pack";
mod "DMUC_Update.pack";
mod "Frederick.pack";
mod Preussens_gloria.pack;
mod "sponge.pack";

Why are you not typing quotation marks for Preussens Gloria mod?
Besides, they should be placed above DMUC packs, and I would not recommend using Sponge mod at the same time unless you know what you are doing. There are too many similar models.

[Megasalexandros]

Yes i was talking about Frederick William I , i am not familiar neither with the Period nor with the king , the same way that i was with Frederick the Great for eg. I can make the basic models though and give them to you if you want.

The shorter busby is really easy to be made, i assure you.

As for the 19th regiment, (!) finally i was waiting for you to make the 19th because i really disliked my own textures for that particular regiment.
I am also curious to see how you will make one of my other favorite regiments, the 24 , Von Schwerin's!
Ok today i think ill finally post some work on this thread

[Herr Doctor]

Either Friedrich I or Friedrich Wilhelm I (or may be both?) uniforms to have some dynamic for Prussian roster from early to the middle 18th century's through the technology development would be absolutely brilliant.