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Thread: Fixing the AI?

  1. #1

    Default

    Sense it looks like the next patch is atleast a weekend away... has anyone figured out a way of modding the AI enough to fix the one major problem which makes me not want to play? This problem being the fact that the AI doesn't know it can transport troops on a ship, ofcourse. It's sorta a game killer for me.

    Well, sense nobody has ideas on how to solve that little thing I think is a problem, does anyone else think it's a top priority problem that should be looked into?

    Posts merged. - Thanatos
    Last edited by Thanatos; March 24, 2009 at 07:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Dewy's Avatar Something Witty
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    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    check the Seas to Sail thread, before you say no one knows how to edit the AI, and its being worked on already it has but no enough
    Oh no the picture of my dog disappeared!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    AI setup is defined in Startpos.esf, but there are a ton of different variables available to tweak and since the esf file I don't think has been fully reverse engineered yet can only be read slightly if you can understand hex.

    here is essentially what is in the startpos.esf for AI I tried initially to hierarchalize it based on what I would presume be the hierarchy, but got lazy so didn't finish

    Code:
    CAI_INTERFACE
    	CAI_BDI_COMPONENT_PROPERTY_SET
    		CAI_BDI_COMPONENT_BLOCK_OWNS
    			CAI_WORLD
    				CAI_WORLD_THEATRES
    					THEATRE
    				CAI_WORLD_FACTIONS
    					OWNED_DIRECT
    						CAI_FACTION
    				CAI_BDI_NEW_TURN
    				CAI_WORLD_REGIONS
    					OWNED_INDIRECT
    						CAI_REGION
    				CAI_WORLD_REGION_BOUNDARIES
    					CAI_REGION_BOUNDARY
    				CAI_WORLD_SETTLEMENTS
    					CAI_SITUATED
    					CAI_GARRISONABLE
    					CAI_THREATENED_GARRISONABLE
    					CAI_SETTLEMENT
    				CAI_WORLD_BUILDING_SLOTS
    					CAI_BUILDING_SLOT
    				CAI_WORLD_REGION_SLOTS
    					CAI_REGION_SLOT
    				CAI_WORLD_TRADING_POSTS
    					CAI_TRADING_POST
    				CAI_WORLD_RESOURCE_MOBILES
    					CAI_RESOURCE_MOBILE								CAI_RESOURCE_MOBILE_SIEGE_INFORMATION
    				CAI_WORLD_UNITS
    					CAI_UNIT
    				CAI_WORLD_CHARACTERS
    					CAI_CHARACTER
    				CAI_WORLD_FORTS
    					CAI_FORT
    				CAI_TIME
    				CAI_WORLD_TRADE_ROUTES
    					CAI_WORLD_TRADE_ROUTE_SEGMENTS
    						CAI_TRADE_ROUTE_SEGMENT
    				CAI_WORLD_TECHNOLOGY_TREES
    					CAI_TECHNOLOGY_TREE
    				CAI_WORLD_GOVERNORSHIPS
    					CAI_GOVERNORSHIP
    				CAI_WORLD_TRANSITION_AREAS
    					CAI_TRANSITION_AREA
    				CAI_WORLD_REGION_HLCIS
    					CAI_REGION_HLCI
    				CAI_WORLD_SEA_GRID_CELLS
    					CAI_SEA_GRID_CELL
    					CAI_SEA_GRID_CELL_MOBILES
    				CAI_HISTORY
    					CAI_HISTORY_EVENTS
    						CAI_HISTORY_EVENT
    						CAI_HISTORY_EVENT_HTML_CLASSES
    						CAI_HISTORY_EVENT_ROUND
    						CAI_HISTORY_EVENT_INVASION_REQUESTED
    					CAI_HISTORY_EVENT_NEW_MANAGER_FOR_FACTION
    				CAI_BDI_POOL
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    					CAI_BORDER_PATROL_ANALYSIS
    						CAI_BORDER_PATROL_ANALYSIS_SPECIFIC_AREAS
    					CAI_BORDER_PATROL_ANALYSIS_AREA_SPECIFIC
    			CAI_BORDER_PATROL_ANALYSIS_AREA_SPECIFIC_PATROL_POINTS
    						CAI_BORDER_PATROL_POINT
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    Last edited by GeorgiaPeanuts; March 20, 2009 at 11:18 PM.

  4. #4
    l33tl4m3r's Avatar A Frakkin' Toaster
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    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    I agree with the OP 100%.

    Absolutely have to fix the AI's usage of ships.
    [House of Caesars|Under the Patronage of Carl von Döbeln]

  5. #5
    Dewy's Avatar Something Witty
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    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts View Post
    AI setup is defined in Startpos.esf, but there are a ton of different variables available to tweak and since the esf file I don't think has been fully reverse engineered yet can only be read slightly if you can understand hex.

    here is essentially what is in the startpos.esf for AI I tried initially to hierarchalize it based on what I would presume be the hierarchy, but got lazy so didn't finish

    Code:
    CAI_INTERFACE
        CAI_BDI_COMPONENT_PROPERTY_SET
            CAI_BDI_COMPONENT_BLOCK_OWNS
                CAI_WORLD
                    CAI_WORLD_THEATRES
                        THEATRE
                    CAI_WORLD_FACTIONS
                        OWNED_DIRECT
                            CAI_FACTION
                    CAI_BDI_NEW_TURN
                    CAI_WORLD_REGIONS
                        OWNED_INDIRECT
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.CAI_UNIT_BALANCE_ANALYSIS_MOBILE+.CAI_BDI_GOAL_PULL_TRADE_NAVY_TO_TRADE_AREAS#.CAI_BDI_GOAL_INVASION_OBTAIN_FORCES(.CAI_BDI_GOAL_INVASION_CAPTURE_SETTLEMENT&.CAI_BDI_GOAL_INVASION_ATTACK_DEFENDERS+.CAI_BDI_GOAL_INVASION_DAMAGE_INFRASTRUCTURE#.CAI_BDI_GOAL_MANAGE_REGION_INVASION..CAI_BDIM_SIEGE_SH..CAI_BDIM_SABOTAGE_SH$.CAI_BDI_EXCESS_RECRUITMENT_BEHAVIOUR-.CAI_FACTION_STEAL_TECHNOLOGY_FACTION_ANALYSIS..CAI_BDI_GOAL_STEAL_TECHNOLOGY..CAI_BDIM_MULTI_MERGE_AT
    Thats wrong

    That AI has its own file, which is easy to see if you look at the pack files
    Oh no the picture of my dog disappeared!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    It is easy to see what is in an esf the key names are always listed at the bottom of each esf so no that stuff in fact does exist in the startpos.esf among numerous numerous other things.

  7. #7
    Dewy's Avatar Something Witty
    Join Date
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    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,697

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Georgia i ahve edited the Ai to make it better i know what i'm talking about
    Oh no the picture of my dog disappeared!

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewy View Post
    Georgia i ahve edited the Ai to make it better i know what i'm talking about
    Could you tell what you have discovered and done? Fixed the naval invasion bug?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts View Post
    AI setup is defined in Startpos.esf, but there are a ton of different variables available to tweak and since the esf file I don't think has been fully reverse engineered yet can only be read slightly if you can understand hex.

    here is essentially what is in the startpos.esf for AI I tried initially to hierarchalize it based on what I would presume be the hierarchy, but got lazy so didn't finish
    Some interesting stuff there.

    CAI_DIPLOMATIC_ANALYSIS

    CAI_OWNED_REGIONS_ANALYSIS

    CAI_BASIC_BORDER_ANALYSIS

    CAI_RESOURCE_MOBILE_MILITARY_STRENGTH

    CAI_UNIT_MILITARY_STRENGTH

    CAI_UNIT_AVAILABILITY_ANALYSIS

    CAI_AREA_OF_INTEREST_ANALYSIS

    CAI_UNIT_AVAILABILITY_ANALYSIS

    CAI_REGION_OCCUPANCY_ANALYSIS

    CAI_TRADE_ROUTE_PORT_ANALYSIS

    CAI_NAVY_DAMAGE_ANALYSIS

    CAI_BDI_POOL_DESIRES

    CAI_MILITARY_STRENGTH_ANALYSER

    CAI_HIGH_LEVEL_PATHFINDER

    CAI_FACTION_INDEPENDENT_PARAMETERS

    CAI_OWNED_AND_ACTIVE_REGIONS_ANALYSIS

    CAI_FINANCIAL_ANALYSIS

    CAI_MILITARY_REGION_GROUP_REGION_ANALYSIS_INFO_ENEMIES

    CAI_TAS_ANALYSIS_THREAT_AND_SUPPORT

    CAI_FACTION_TO_FACTION_ATTITUDE_ANALYSIS

    CAI_BASIC_FACTION_RELATIVE_ANALYSIS_RELATIVEINFORMATION

    CAI_RELATIVE_ABSOLUTE_STRENGTH_ANALYSIS

    CAI_FACTION_TRADE_ANALYSIS

    CAI_BUILD_FORT_IN_REGION_ANALYSIS

    CAI_DEFEND_REGION_ANALYSIS

    etc....

    Double posts merged. - Thanatos
    Last edited by Thanatos; March 24, 2009 at 07:57 PM.

  9. #9
    Dewy's Avatar Something Witty
    Join Date
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    Australia
    Posts
    4,697

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Thats not the AI gaaa. There is 3 campaign files, they are in the db folder named campaign_ai_whatever it is
    Oh no the picture of my dog disappeared!

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewy View Post
    Thats not the AI gaaa. There is 3 campaign files, they are in the db folder named campaign_ai_whatever it is
    Yes, i know them, if you tell me they are the AI then what the hell are these?

    Now that i think about it, its possible youre right and we are playing the arcade mode with three DB files untill the games sales stop and we are provided the real AI in hiding.

    Double posts merged. - Thanatos
    Last edited by Thanatos; March 24, 2009 at 07:58 PM.

  11. #11
    Dewy's Avatar Something Witty
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    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Björneborgs regemente View Post
    Now that i think about it, its possible youre right and we are playing the arcade mode with three DB files untill the games sales stop and we are provided the real AI in hiding.
    haha nice.

    Those look like they are call statements, in other words what AI functions to use. I don't know but its not in that
    Oh no the picture of my dog disappeared!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Björneborgs regemente View Post
    Now that i think about it, its possible youre right and we are playing the arcade mode with three DB files untill the games sales stop and we are provided the real AI in hiding.
    I've looked at those DB files. They look interesting, but...

    1) It's very difficult to tell what most of them actually do
    2) It's just a variable name and then a value, so you're basically just tweaking the variables/parameters for the AI... This is definitely not "under the hood" and to some extent is less access than we had in M2TW (although it does look much more deep and customizable)

    So even though I can't wait to mod the ETW AI, I think we won't be able to do so fully until we get tools or at least docudemons from CA.

  13. #13
    Condottiere SOG's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    The more difficult, the better, right?

  14. #14
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    In this one page, I've had to merge double posts together three times. Please use your "edit" button next time, this will greatly reduce clutter and make for more efficient reading, thank you. - Thanatos

  15. #15

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Instead of complaining about the AI, why not go play multiplayer? isn't that the ultimate fix to problem AI?

    I know, we're all trying to learn to play the game first before being wiped-out in multiplayer.

    R
    oOo

    Rome 2 refugee ...

    oOo

  16. #16

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorarii View Post
    Instead of complaining about the AI, why not go play multiplayer? isn't that the ultimate fix to problem AI?

    I know, we're all trying to learn to play the game first before being wiped-out in multiplayer.

    R
    Because people have already discovered how to edit unit statistics, and use various exploits in the game, usually unbalanced units. Add a glitchy achievement system, and these factors combine to remove any enjoyment to be had.

    Multiplayer is just as bugged as the rest of this unfinished game.

    Oh and as for naval invasions, Darth's Mod has attempted to address this but discovered that the AI relating to this is probably hard coded.
    Last edited by calicheSCOT; March 24, 2009 at 08:38 PM.
    "It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

    Declaration of Arbroath, 1320AD

  17. #17
    Condottiere SOG's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Besides I hate multiplayer. I'd rather mod the game to fight like its a 'period' player. More of a challenge then someone who is going to fight you with 20th Century tactics.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewy View Post
    haha nice.

    Those look like they are call statements, in other words what AI functions to use. I don't know but its not in that
    I have parse the file and no it is not just that.

    For instance look at the file parsed here http://rapidshare.com/files/213187821/startpos.zip.html

    and see that the file is comprised almost all of AI sections with many different data variables in each section.

    a quick sample

    Code:
    <CAI_BDI_GOAL_MANAGE_FACTION_TO_FACTION_ATTITUDE>
                                                      <uint offset=35618799>1428</uint>
                                                      <uint offset=35618804>40201</uint>
                                                      <uint offset=35618809>39600</uint>
                                                      <uint offset=35618814>2</uint>
                                                      <uint offset=35618819>1</uint>
                                                      <uint offset=35618824>2</uint>
                                                      <bool offset=35618829>false</bool>
                                                 </CAI_BDI_GOAL_MANAGE_FACTION_TO_FACTION_ATTITUDE>
    There is so much data in the AI section it may take a while for any of it to be decoded into what it does though.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Fixing the AI?

    Quote Originally Posted by calicheSCOT View Post
    Oh and as for naval invasions, Darth's Mod has attempted to address this but discovered that the AI relating to this is probably hard coded.
    I think there are AI variables that can influence the frequency of naval invasions... But you're right in that I think there is a bug that is preventing naval invasions from occurring.

    I looked at Darth's AI files, and it seemed like he just increased most of the values while leaving a few the same. He's obviously a great modder, but I don't see how he knows what those variables are actually doing.
    Last edited by TheSavage; March 24, 2009 at 09:12 PM.

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