Naval capacity / birth of marines?

**Takeda Shingen** · March 19, 2009, 03:59 AM

Hi together,

in order to have a more realistic naval warfare I would hardly recommend to make a capacity limit for naval transport.
Currently you take e.g a sloop and take your full stack army to transport it over to the colonies.
I would recommend to limit the transport capacity if somehow possible!?
So something like one unit per ship!?

Additionally I would love to see that you could deploy marines on your ships in order to capture enemies vessels. Or other way around, when taking a country somewhere from sea side, you could stack up your troops unloading some of your marines.

Is there any chance to do such thing?

**Mediteran** · March 19, 2009, 04:04 AM

you are not transporting troops on warships, the current idea i think is that if for example you put them on a sloop you are transporting your army with transport ships, and you have 1 sloop protecting them

as there arent any transport ships in the game

**Takeda Shingen** · March 19, 2009, 04:26 AM

Well, actually there are transport ships! ..... or rather traders.

But what idea do you mean? Have I overseen something?

**Mediteran** · March 19, 2009, 04:36 AM

i mean the idea i wrote in my post above, just wanted you to know thats what CA had said on the matter, as it was in all tw games before. its imaginary, same as many other imaginary things in the game. no matter, if you want to do it your way good luck, but then you better make new ship models for transport ships and they should be unarmed if you want realism, as troops weren't transported on warships

but anyway, i was just trying to explain you arent "really" transporting them on that one sloop you mentioned, if it bothers you that you cant see your transport ships then go ahead

**Björneborgs regemente** · March 19, 2009, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Hi together,

in order to have a more realistic naval warfare I would hardly recommend to make a capacity limit for naval transport.
Currently you take e.g a sloop and take your full stack army to transport it over to the colonies.
I would recommend to limit the transport capacity if somehow possible!?
So something like one unit per ship!?

Additionally I would love to see that you could deploy marines on your ships in order to capture enemies vessels. Or other way around, when taking a country somewhere from sea side, you could stack up your troops unloading some of your marines.

Is there any chance to do such thing?

Its possible, but needs a lot of calculating involving the cost and upkeep of naval units.
Also the AI cant use even the current model!

The standing navies and armies at campaing start have to be corrected in this process.

England had something like 170 warships in 1700, we have to decide some scale to represent that in the game. The vanilla doesnt even have ships of the line available in the start, in roster or in recruitment!

The marines can be brought to the game trough the tech tree and buildings and its a good idea!
The problem is to get them in the ships contigent, and the AI to utilise them also.

Someone smarter than me can answer that one, but keep those ideas coming.

**Reiver** · March 19, 2009, 05:17 AM

Fror the moment, if you want to increase the number of marines on your ship it's the first unknown column in the naval units if you edit the db using the pack file manager. The second unknown is the number of sailors. I'm trying to work out the other unknowns but that's not as easy.

**Björneborgs regemente** · March 19, 2009, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Reiver

Fror the moment, if you want to increase the number of marines on your ship it's the first unknown column in the naval units if you edit the db using the pack file manager. The second unknown is the number of sailors. I'm trying to work out the other unknowns but that's not as easy.

Are you sure?
Ive not looked at the naval stats much but the crew size seemed to be the 3 colum in the manager?
About marines i dont know nothing.

**Mooncabbage** · March 19, 2009, 05:38 AM

You could add marines as a technology... I'm not sure how they work but perhaps you could increase the number of marines on ships by a percentage? +20% Marines or something. That'd be the easiest way to do it.

Does anybody know where Technology Effects are stored?

Ie, the scripts or whatever that make them do whatever it is that they do.

**Björneborgs regemente** · March 19, 2009, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mooncabbage

You could add marines as a technology... I'm not sure how they work but perhaps you could increase the number of marines on ships by a percentage? +20% Marines or something. That'd be the easiest way to do it.

Im sure there are marines for naval battles, but to make ones even the AI can land i dont know.

I think that was the question.
We can make marines as land units that the player can use and land.

But like i said, the AI cant even land regular troops at this time so it could be impossible.

**Mooncabbage** · March 19, 2009, 05:54 AM

The french already have marines as a land unit I think, however taking marines OFF ships to use as a land unit... that's going to be something thats difficult to impossible. Would probably involve a lot of scripting and a much better idea of how ETW works than we have now.

**Takeda Shingen** · March 19, 2009, 07:33 AM

Well, I really hope this "idea" will be a lot clearer after the "sdk" has been released. Let's hope this will be soon

The issue of transport vessels is an easy one I guess. Just take away some of the cannons of "fluyts" or east-india-traders(well they don't really have cannons anyway) and you have your transporter.
Well, besides of the capacity.

**Reiver** · March 19, 2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Björneborgs regemente

Are you sure?
Ive not looked at the naval stats much but the crew size seemed to be the 3 colum in the manager?
About marines i dont know nothing.

Yeah, it affects the crew numbers but if you look there's a set number of sailors on deck with no obvious job (ie. manning the canons). They line up with the marines at the start of battle so you can see them clearly. The value affects how many of them you see.

**Takeda Shingen** · March 23, 2009, 05:49 AM

Sorry to "bump" this, but I would really like to see some talented guy make it possible.

**warmachine** · March 23, 2009, 06:47 AM

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=240596

Ive already managed to put british, french, spanish, dutch and US marines into the game as limited recruitable units (Proper mod release coming later today. Together with british guard units). But I dont see any way of being able to recruit them from ships rather than provinces. Nor can I see anything that can, or really needs to be, done about the transport ship issue since there is no way I can see to stop certain ships from transporting troops and allow certain others (If it were the case, you'd stop warships from being able to transport troops and create a new "transport fleet" unit that could)

**Takeda Shingen** · March 23, 2009, 08:33 AM

Hey Warmachine.

I have of course seen this and I think I have downloaded it also.
Nice units by the way!!!

Could you make some Prussian "Marine Infanterie" (Marinier Corps) too?

**DanMLee88** · March 23, 2009, 10:12 AM

Going back to OP's proposal.....

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Hi together,

in order to have a more realistic naval warfare I would hardly recommend to make a capacity limit for naval transport.
Currently you take e.g a sloop and take your full stack army to transport it over to the colonies.
I would recommend to limit the transport capacity if somehow possible!?
So something like one unit per ship!?

Additionally I would love to see that you could deploy marines on your ships in order to capture enemies vessels. Or other way around, when taking a country somewhere from sea side, you could stack up your troops unloading some of your marines.

Is there any chance to do such thing?

I would think it's very much 'realistic'....but than again we get into the old argument about realism vs. gameplay. That much of restriction would definitely make things much more tedious and suck a lot of fun out of ETW.

Further more......let's not forget the crippled AI. They can't even conduct naval invasions now..if this restriction is set in place they wouldn't know what to do (and even if it was patched up, they would be sending piecemeal forces). Nah....Just leave it as it is. It evens out IMO with the fact that all your guys and stuff are lost if you happen to lose that single brig.

**warmachine** · March 23, 2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by DanMLee88

Going back to OP's proposal.....

I would think it's very much 'realistic'....but than again we get into the old argument about realism vs. gameplay. That much of restriction would definitely make things much more tedious and suck a lot of fun out of ETW.

Further more......let's not forget the crippled AI. They can't even conduct naval invasions now..if this restriction is set in place they wouldn't know what to do (and even if it was patched up, they would be sending piecemeal forces). Nah....Just leave it as it is. It evens out IMO with the fact that all your guys and stuff are lost if you happen to lose that single brig.

I do like the idea of having a naval battle and having to protect my transport ships (full of my full stack armies) from dirty pirates trying to wipe up my invasion force. I just haven't seen anything in the unit_naval stats that seems to indicate a transport figure. There are still lots of unknown columns, so maybe it could be found. The only way I think it would be possible is if that was CA's original plan and they did all the groundwork for it. If the grass roots are there, im not sure how the troop transport elements can be changed.