Modding ship models

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Is it possible to modify ship models and if yes, how?

[Takeda Shingen]

I guess this is the hardest piece of modding.

Maybe some people of the SilentHunter-Mod-Forums are able to create new vessels!?

There is a big mod project where they have created several new ships. Obviously no sail ships but I guess its different to create soldiers!?

[Captian Barbossa]

Is it possible to modify ship models and if yes, how?

Not yet, first, you'd need an importer for 3ds Max (most likely an maxscript) to import the model files, and then, of course, you'd need the exporter created by CA to re-export the models back into the game.

I was working, or trying to, on a maxscript last night that, hopefully, would import Empire's model formats, but I stopped.

Unfortunately, programming is not my specialty, and I'm not really familiar with maxscript, which is why i stopped, I felt i was getting in over my head too quickly. And, for any possible Rigid_Model/Weighted_Mesh import/export script to work, the actual exporter plugin from CA would be required, since the export part of the script would call on/reference the .dle/.dlu as a base.

An example bieng the RTW/Med2TW .CAS import/export script (that I found on these forums), there's a part of the script that calls on the .DLU plugin CA released (which I also have installed.)

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

I would like to mod ETW to simulate ancient naval battles.

Barbossa, I am familiar with Max, so if you find out anything, don't be afraid to post it. What would this maxscript contain? Which file(s) should I unpack?
Any chance CA releases modding tools for this purpose?

[Captian Barbossa]

I would like to mod ETW to simulate ancient naval battles.

Barbossa, I am familiar with Max, so if you find out anything, don't be afraid to post it. What would this maxscript contain? Which file(s) should I unpack?
Any chance CA releases modding tools for this purpose?

I'm sure they will. I'm hopeing they will, since they released the .CAS file exporter that allowed new models for Rome and Med2.

As to what the maxscript should contain, I really don't know. I've tried looking through the .CAS import/export script for ideas, but i got lost. I've had 3ds Max for nearly 3 years now, (version 8), but as i said, I've not really touched Maxscript, but i'm willing to give it a try.

If you'd like to help me with this script, I'd gladly take any help you can give me. You can contact me over MSN if you'd like, and we'll see what we come up with.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

I suspect it will be very challenging because you'd have to figure out how to get the sails and rigging and also how to handle destruction of the hull.

[Captian Barbossa]

True, which is why I'll probably wait until CA release the exporter, then it should be "relitively" easier.

Ah well, this will give me more time to finish my Trireme model.

[Aradiel]

I suspect it will be very challenging because you'd have to figure out how to get the sails and rigging and also how to handle destruction of the hull.

Im already working on new ship models, the most difficult part will be most likely to make new animations for rows, turrets etc. depending on which direction you go. There are plenty of ship simulations on the market, models from there could be ported. I guess until ca releases the tools we are stuck on a sandbank. However im very curious to see your work guys

[Captian Barbossa]

Im already working on new ship models, the most difficult part will be most likely to make new animations for rows, turrets etc. depending on which direction you go. There are plenty of ship simulations on the market, models from there could be ported. I guess until ca releases the tools we are stuck on a sandbank. However im very curious to see your work guys

The model I'm making is an Athenian Trireme, but it's going very slowly. As for the maxscript, I'll try putting something together using Visual Maxscript (it's like Visual Basic, you build it using buttons, dialog boxes, and such, and it fills in the code for you.)

Acording to a post by a CA member in the Pack File Manager thread, he mentioned the models were originally in .CAS2 format, but the process they use to put the files ingame converts them. Here's what he wrote:

...But most of the internal tool chain is based around a data packing and transformation tool which basically functions like a make tool, taking a spec which links source data with processors and output locations. For example, the databases are input into that as xml, the models as our own cas2 format, and so on, and the output is a pack file.

So like I said in my previous post, we'll have to wait for them to give us the tools we need, I just hope they give us an exporter, otherwise, us model makers will be pretty much at a dead end.

[Reiver]

I would like to mod ETW to simulate ancient naval battles.

Barbossa, I am familiar with Max, so if you find out anything, don't be afraid to post it. What would this maxscript contain? Which file(s) should I unpack?
Any chance CA releases modding tools for this purpose?

The collision detection and clipping will cause a fair bit of problems with ancient battles. Definitely a mod i'd like to play though.

[Aradiel]

The collision detection and clipping will cause a fair bit of problems with ancient battles. Definitely a mod i'd like to play though.

We need collisions though, also for the modern times. In 1866 admiral Tegethoff told his captains before the battle to ram everything that is grey. His own ships where painted black, and the ramming tactic actually won the day.

[Captian Barbossa]

It's too bad CA didn't implement ramming as an actual option for ships.

[S-te-Fan]

I am trying to recreate ancient naval battles in my mod.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=237438

[upsettingshorts]

Fifth Rate, HMS Simi.

Heh, if that's referencing who I think it is. I'll admit to an HMS Faye

Back on topic, you know, I'd love to see some ironclads. I wonder if the USS Monitor (with the turret) is possible. Although the lack of ramming and the impossibility of boarding are hurdles beyond models. It'd also be cool to have a wider variety of unrated ships, like cutters.

[Reiver]

We need collisions though, also for the modern times. In 1866 admiral Tegethoff told his captains before the battle to ram everything that is grey. His own ships where painted black, and the ramming tactic actually won the day.

'Course we need collision, that's why i said it. The problem is collision detection and clipping. The ships will "collide" despite there being no visual contact and many times they'll pass half way through each other during boarding. The current system is not particuarly well suited to the type of combat needed for an ancient mod.
Doesn't mean I don't want to see it attempted though.

[Aradiel]

Well something must define that the ship has hit something, probably a pivot placed in front of the ship, that would be adjustable according to the model But thats pure speculation.

[Captian Barbossa]

Heh, if that's referencing who I think it is. I'll admit to an HMS Faye

Back on topic, you know, I'd love to see some ironclads. I wonder if the USS Monitor (with the turret) is possible. Although the lack of ramming and the impossibility of boarding are hurdles beyond models. It'd also be cool to have a wider variety of unrated ships, like cutters.

If you're reffering to Sherrilyn Kenyon's Dark-Hunter series, then yes, it's that Simi, Simi Parthenopeaus.

Back on Topic: Yes, clipping probably would be a problem. I thought the clipping in Age of Empires three was just ugly. And if you clicked directly behind the ships in that game, the actually moved backwards as they turned. I'm so glad CA got the naval engine right. (or nearly right.)

But since Galleys are already in the game, and I've found the text files that control rigging, I even found the Animations_tables.TXT file in anim.pack, (yes, it's a regular .txt file.) adding something like a Trireme shouldn't be too difficult. I tried creating a model viewer for viewing the models, but without details of the file formats (and more experience with C++ programming), it'd be difficult for me to make one.

(EDIT)
I also forgot to mention that I found the 3ds Max directX9 .fx shaders CA used in the fx folder in main.pack. If you have a copy of 3ds Max installed, just copy the entire contents of the folder and paste it into your Program Files\Autodesk\3dsmax\Maps\fx folder, it's probably worth creating a sub folder inside that, then you should be able to access and load the .fx shaders in max, and see how they're configured. I've only been able to load a few of them though (rigid.fx, ship.fx and weighted.fx) the rest appear to need a persionalconfig.h file, which CA obvously didn't include.

[Aradiel]

Good find, ive loaded them, but cant tell anything yet without a material to toy around on my model. However you can define faction color and mask there.

[Captian Barbossa]

have you been able to load the others? the only ones i was able to load without problems were the three i mentioned that are in the "max shaders" folder in main.pack/fx, the rest all through up compilation errors and complain about a missing personalconfig header file (.h)

[Aradiel]

I only have _rigid, _ship, and _weighted in my \fx\max_shaders\ directory unpacked from main.pack

edit: whoops sorry, i was a little distracted, thats actually what you said. I tryd to load shipbowave.fx and
it told me "C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2008\maps\fx\memory(82,17): error X3004: undeclared identifier 'decal_projection'"

edit2: same for all others i have tryd. always an undeclared identifier, unexpected token.