IB2 VANDALORVM II DISCUSSION/FEEDBACK

[aesthete]

I, personally, would rather not have greek fire: to my understanding, it didn't make a huge impact on the battlefield, and barely made one in naval battles. But, just my opinion, take it or leave it

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

I, personally, would rather not have greek fire: to my understanding, it didn't make a huge impact on the battlefield, and barely made one in naval battles. But, just my opinion, take it or leave it

It's not a must but it is something that can be equivalent to the Gunpowder event in Medieval. Just something cool to get, to reward you later. It came into use in that era.

[Nikos]

I, personally, would rather not have greek fire: to my understanding, it didn't make a huge impact on the battlefield, and barely made one in naval battles. But, just my opinion, take it or leave it

Uh, Barley made an impact? It was instrumental in many victories like the first and second sieges of Constantinople.

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

More Feedback:

I think another thing to be done is less use of units with a secondary throwing weapon. It sort of kills some of the tactical uses of units. It would be good to have more specific units, skirmishers, ranged, horse archers, heavy and light cavalry, heavy and light infantrymen, specific bodyguards for Generals in factions.

As to how you can do this based on faction, I'd say..

Romans need to be urban developers. They have the ability to have a strong economy, and build great architectural wonders. Their professional and semi professional units need to be expensive, and unique to the areas they are recruited from. I think an AOR for legions might be nice between Roman factions, so when they conquer an area they have certain legions assigned to it, but only within old Roman lands, so once you're outside you have to reinforce. Legion numbers still work. Just and FYI. So do eagles.

Next would be their cheaper, way weaker garrison militia and limae sort of people, along with Germanic Foederati. I think Foederati should be AOR as well, based on historical areas so we're not choked with Germans, and also, perhaps limited. Maybe you don't pay Germans to help out. I think it'd be a nice player event to abolish, or reinstate foederati. Foederati should cost you money wether you're recruiting them or not. They're a tax on the government and outside most of Roman law. As well as dangerous.

Romans need to have some of the best siege/battlefield artillery in the game. (That is until you have a whole map version with other urban developed nations like the Sassinids.) Also, needing to be expensive but effective.

The Romans need to start off in a set of disrepair, fear, and economic collapse. It needs to be hard, and perhaps the decision to pull back would be good. As well as being corrupt and prone to rebellions among insidious Generals due to poor authority as the Emperor.


The Germanic Tribes, I think, need to be set up in the typical Germanic fashion, with their unique bits. I think conquering certain areas should allow you to bring into your faction new AOR tribal units. Just those native to this region or faction. Maybe a new unit or two of Conquered Peoples put up as a militia or rabble that are poor. Shared rosters among all factions can be easier for you, and leaves you to more creative space and less work. The Tribes also need to, while headed perhaps by and King and Heir, need to be very loose confederations of peoples that unless under a good king will break into rebellion and fight eachother. This happened a lot.

Vandals need to be slightly urbanized, less Roman, with good light, heavy and archery type cavalry as well as good ship building technology on par with the Romans. They should be quick movers, perhaps more of a skirmishing type infantry set up for them, less infantry, more archers and horses. Some siege equipment. The King of the Vandals also had many Alans under his control. This would be more points toward horses.

The Goths would probably be a bit between the Vandals and Romans. They're pretty Urban, would be infantry centric, having served the most in the Roman Armies. Roman training and discplined, along with heavy and light cavalry, and some light skirmishing units. Visis should be more with infantry, Ostros might be more set toward cavalry but more sharing between their rosters than differences.

The Suebi are probably going to be fairly romanized, and something along the same relationship as the Goths to the Romans. Less cavalry, more infantry. More Urban. No real specialty, but the ability to wage all kinds of war.


The Berbers, I think would be a nice backwater, that while having experienced trade with the Romans, are not exactly Urban yet. They have no real knowledge of building, and have light, missle and light cavalry, with the potential to Urbanize. Perhaps with extended contact with the Romans in battle and other urban peoples could be able to build good cities and ports after stealing or trading enough technology. Something so you could use the "learning" things like the Apache and Chichimeca in the Americas Campaign in Kingdoms. Makes them exciting as potential builders.


( I could probably write on all the factions, good steps to take in terms of roster. I'm no mod planner, and while I love history, I may not know everything, it's good to bring balances, strengths, and weaknesses to each faction. I'd like to help you guys in any way I can. )

[Nakharar]

just a thought if the Western Roman Empire did survive whos to say they wouldve had "GREEK fire"

[Riothamus]

The end date of the mod is 629AD and there is alot of speculation to when it was first used so it if anything would be a very late addition to the game. I do think we should keep open to the idea.

Need time to study your post Ashley J. Williams

[sirfiggin]

units look wonderful, but two main issues in campaign;

1. Family trees horribly underdeveloped, Valentinian had a mother, Galla was a very significant figure so she must be included for authenticity purposes, although I imagine that this issue is already being addressed due to the deication of the team involved.
2. Is the Western Empire really deteriorating?! After the first turn the player is in an even better position than before! Nearly 30k in per turn and enough well-developed towns to deal with the goths and vandals within 10 turns! A Similar issue for the Vandals, but in Spain they should not have many, If any towns, if possible they should be a horde.

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

According to mighty Wikipedia, Greek Fire:

Incendiary and flaming weapons had been used in warfare for centuries prior to the invention of Greek fire, including a number of petroleum- and bitumen-based mixtures; however, Greek fire was difficult to extinguish and could burn on water, making it a devastating invention. The first use of an incendiary chemical substance at sea by the Byzantines dates from the suppression of a revolt against the Emperor Anastasius I in AD 513. According to the chronicler John Malalas, the Emperor called on a philosopher from Athens called Proclus, who invented a powder that ignited when exposed to the heat of the sun's rays.


However, Theophanes records that the concoction that would become known as Greek fire was invented c. 670 in Constantinople by Callinicus, an architect from Heliopolis in the former province of Phoenice. The historian James Partington thinks it likely that "Greek fire was really invented by chemists in Constantinople who had inherited the discoveries of the Alexandrian chemical school".


So anywhere in there may work should you decide to include it.

[Riothamus]

units look wonderful, but two main issues in campaign;

1. Family trees horribly underdeveloped, Valentinian had a mother, Galla was a very significant figure so she must be included for authenticity purposes, although I imagine that this issue is already being addressed due to the deication of the team involved.
2. Is the Western Empire really deteriorating?! After the first turn the player is in an even better position than before! Nearly 30k in per turn and enough well-developed towns to deal with the goths and vandals within 10 turns! A Similar issue for the Vandals, but in Spain they should not have many, If any towns, if possible they should be a horde.

Thanks sirfiggin suggestions
-We are very much aware concerning the family trees. They will be expanded upon..this is a beta result.

-Valentinian I believe was 12 at this time and not 16 and Galla Placidia was quite the woman figure of that time. Added as is for beta purposes. There is actually a hole here in history as to the Emperor. Galla Placidia was certainly a powerful figure at that time
and for a woman this was extraordinary. She was in an extraordinary person...even was once was married to Ataulf, the Visogoth King

-Good point about the 'Is the Western Empire really deteriorating'
this certainly could be looked at and conditions made much more difficult.

-City pops we are aware of currently it as is for a running beta..but as we tweak it further down you will see major differences in many of the regions population levels

[Nikos]

Every time I try to start a custom battle I get a CTD. Interface is good though!

[Nakharar]

this custom battle problem was also shared by Giorgios... yes also a side note for all the result of a open beta is thus some factions/units are overpowered if it was closed beta it probably wouldnt be but please dont be angry we will try fix any balancing issues

[Fresco]

Incredible!!! I'm downloading at 2,61 KB/sec. very very slow(normally with my connessin I'm downlòading at 100 kb/sec.).

[y2day]

Every time I try to start a custom battle I get a CTD. Interface is good though!

Glad someone likes the UI...atleast I hope he is talking about the UI. Will DL soon. Great job everyone.

y

[Nikos]

this custom battle problem was also shared by Giorgios... yes also a side note for all the result of a open beta is thus some factions/units are overpowered if it was closed beta it probably wouldnt be but please dont be angry we will try fix any balancing issues

I'm not angry . I'll wait patiently.

Glad someone likes the UI...atleast I hope he is talking about the UI. Will DL soon. Great job everyone.

y

Yes I mean the UI.

[Point Blank]

This looks great, downloading now

[julianus heraclius]

I think there needs to be new animations. I saw the cataphractarii charging with couched lances. Also the stances don't look right. They all look like hunchbacks. I hear EB are working on new animations. Perhaps we should be talking to them about this.

[Riothamus]

-Just a reminder that any general discussion is welcomed including any suggestions pertaining to the IB2 Beta here on this thread. We encourage the continuous flow and the exchange of ideas that can benefit our newly released beta.

-Nakharar has posted a suggestion thread and if people want to post their suggestions there that is fine also. That thread will be only for balancing issues and suggestions. Thanks

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

My friends, how is this different from the pre-beta? Has the barbarian roster in general been expanded any? It was in dire need of that.

[persianfan247]

Hi Guys,

I've had a chance to look at the BETA version. Firstly good job. But I do have a few reservations.

i) I don't understand why the roman units have mixed armored and unarmored as well as helmeted and bareheaded troops. Is this because by this time things had gotten so bad equipment wise that they were armed with whatever they could get?

My understanding of the late period was that a Legio or Auxilia unit would have some troops lightly armed but these would act as skirmishers. The main body of troops were still heavily armed, though with different armour and helmets. These guys just look like a motley bunch.

I could understand this more for the limitanei but even then, they would try to arm, at least the front ranks with armour.

ii) They all seem to be just so dirty. I feel like giving them all a bath. I know we are after realism here but this all just seems to add to the motley crew feel.

Of where are my elite Herculianii Legio, all so bright and clean.

Sorry guys, but I thought I should at least mention this for discussion.

Cheers

To add to this in my new(as in first published recently, but have now had it for a while) it states that its a myth that the Roman army was less armored and badly off compared to previous periods if I had the book with me now I could quote the section, but im at Uni now and will not have acess to it for about a month, it also says that this myth was created partly by the fact that as an artistic style soldiers were increasingly depicted without armour(a picture of a tomb stone was its example)

Edit: This is the book http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Roman...7357541&sr=1-1

[Riothamus]

Great Topic

I've come across passages where it was stated sometimes late Roman armies were discarding some of their heavier armour. I'm not sure how true or if possibly due to sometimes poor command.

Theres no doubt that the Roman army's mystic was gone during this time and the barbarians were at least now seeing the Romans as now their equals on the battlefield.