Child arrested in Florida for bad behaviour

[RusskiSoldat]

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7609741/
So do you think this is too much?
If it is then what can be done to prevent this?
What should have been done?

I believe that it was too much, but needed because of America's sure happy people. If the teachers attempted to take her and spank her then they would probably be sued for child abuse, and only the police in fact could subdue her with little risk.

[Gelatinous Cube]

I think it's kind of stupid. So stupid, in fact, that I don't even have an opinion on it. It's kind of like seeing a termite suddenly get up and tap-dance. There's really nothing to say.

[Zuwxiv]

Technically, if a child is misbehaving, there is nothing a teacher can do to force the child to behave. Well, there are things, but the teacher would be sued.

And although this might be a logical choice, wouldn't it be easier to call the student's parents?


EDIT: I would expect to react to a termite tap dance, but for some reason, at the thought of it, I don't. Weird...... :huh :8 :blink :getlost

[hormiga]

You see RusskiSoldat, this is America, we have laws protecting children. Maybe in Russia beating children is cool, I dont know.

[smack]

There are legal ways to restrain a child misbehaving, but you need certification to use them and not be sued. It's also like the idea of giving CPR without certification. You are sue-able if you try to save someone's life and screw up in any way. Craziness. I will say this: Controlling other people's kids when they are out of control is scary, even without the law. Its hard to know sometimes how much restraint to use (not amount of force, but type of restraint), and I've a couple times given too much leeway and regretted it. That's with teenagers though. A five year old is easy enough to stop, but really, in the public system it really is only appropriate for police to step in if nobody is paid to sit around and restrain kids all day, and certified to do so. We have the society we 'paid for' in that regard. When in doubt, call the men in blue.

[RusskiSoldat]

Did you not read the story? The child attacked the principal, a good smack would be more than deserved here. And how liberal can you get? A child this obnoxious must be put into his/her place. If you had it your way, the punishment would be a slap on the wrist, and then off to bed with no dinner.

[hormiga]

Russki: so it is ok for 3 cops to handcuff a kid? I mean seriously a five year old can be bad, but how does that justify being bent over and hand cuffed.

So Ill ask again: is that acceptable in Russia?

I love how I am a "liberal" automatically because I dont jump on your "Americans are sue happy!" band wagon.

[Wicked]

If the teachers were allowed to dispense punishment...and parents weren't too weak-willed to do it themselves this never would have happened... :rolleyes

Personally, when I was a kid teachers were already banned from it, but the parent’s willingness to use the rod sure as hell hadn't gone away, worked fine for me till I turned 15 and started driving... :w00t

I screwed up at school, teachers would call my mom, I'd get home, WAM, reinforced leather horseswat to the rear...dad gets home...mom tells dad what I did...WAM, studded leather disco belt to the backside...fast forward to the day I thought I was 'Man Enough' to grab the belt and tell him to :wub: Off while putting my dukes up to prove it...WAM, extremely large fist attached to extremely large arm attached to 6'2" career navy man...worked pretty well I gotta say...the immediate result looked something like this: :wack ...no more problems from me... :grin

And of course if you screwed up at a friends house all the moms had something of an unspoken agreement that no matter who's kid it was...whoever's house they were at was the one who got first dibs on paddlin' your butt, no screaming "OMG, you beat my kid!" from that lot, and of course the same chain of events laid out above would occur after a call from a friends mom about screwing up at their house...damn near impossible to get away with being a little bastard to someone, the farther away you went just meant the more pain to your butt eventually... :crying

I'm not saying you should beat the living hell outta your kid, but so long as their in your house it's your job to put the fear of god into them about screwing up, it shouldn't require a cop...of course, I'm a guy, and I've gotta say my sis got away with a lot more, although not the mom-applied punishment, although then again she (and most girls) don't screw up on the same scale/way as guys...or else their better at hiding it or begging it off... :whistle

[RusskiSoldat]

Russki: so it is ok for 3 cops to handcuff a kid? I mean seriously a five year old can be bad, but how does that justify being bent over and hand cuffed.

The teachers couldn't take lighter measures to pacify her (a simple spanking would do)

So Ill ask again: is that acceptable in Russia?

I don't know. The school I went to was as disciplined as the army that they would eventually be conscripted into. No one did much more than talk in class (which was punished by a mild F in your journal and your parents coming to school) since they were afraid. I don't know what exactly it was that they were afraid off, but I'm guessing it was bad so I was as disciplined as the rest of them. Either it was genuinely bad, or expertly laid propaganda. Either way it worked and they were at the very least entitled by law to discipline us, something America leaves to the police.

I love how I am a "liberal" automatically because I dont jump on your "Americans are sue happy!" band wagon.

The child assaulted a staff member of the school. If this violent tendency is not gotten under control she will end up in a gang when she grows up.

[Gelatinous Cube]

Well said Wicked_Rythm. Personally I was a very pleasant child, and i've never had any real problems with my parents or anything (a spanking once or twice when I was 5 or something, but I stopped being a pain after about 6). The problem here is indeed that americans are "sue-happy". If I was a teacher, and I got smacked by a student--regardless of how young--I'd not want it on my hands. Especially with the student being black--affirmative action + sue-happy = bad times--so calling the cops seems logical.

[hormiga]

Originally posted by RusskiSoldat@Apr 25 2005, 11:03 PM
The teachers couldn't take lighter measures to pacify her (a simple spanking would do)

My stance on this: You touch my 5 year old kid and Im going to break your arm. No one should touch my kid unless that kid is a threat to someone and a 5 year old is not a threat. Certainly not a threat to 3 grown officers.

I don't know. The school I went to was as disciplined as the army that they would eventually be conscripted into. No one did much more than talk in class (which was punished by a mild F in your journal and your parents coming to school) since they were afraid. I don't know what exactly it was that they were afraid off, but I'm guessing it was bad so I was as disciplined as the rest of them. Either it was genuinely bad, or expertly laid propaganda. Either way it worked and they were at the very least entitled by law to discipline us, something America leaves to the police.

The reason I asked was because you said it was too much in the first post but then you railed against me and you seem to have an issue with the laws of America. Sure people sue people here, sometimes for dumb reasons but handcuffing a 5year oldis something that is definitly worthly of investigation and legal action.

The child assaulted a staff member of the school. If this violent tendency is not gotten under control she will end up in a gang when she grows up.

Have you ever been assaulted by a 5 year old? Dont assume she is going to end up in a gang or whatever, that doesnt justify treating her like a criminal, she's a 5 year for chrissakes.

[Zuwxiv]

Anyone who things America isn't sue-happy is obviously delusional. Its that simple.

Normally, the child should have had a slap. I'm not talking about get-out-the-belt-and-the-donkey-cause-its-time-to-whip-the-@$$ beating, I'm talking about a light slap for negative reinforcement. But in a sue happy society, maybe this wasn't too bad a choice. As said before, why not call the child's parents instead? Wouldn't that be easier?

[Carsomyr]

I love how they chose the most emotional picture / still to front the article.

This is a growing dilemma that is too often dismissed. I found Hormiga's comment awfully black & white. Police in the US are the ones who are practically handcuffed. It gets to the point where police are almost too afraid to act or uphold the law because they're afraid of lawsuits. It's odd; the US, and western countries, are reaching the point where they're too liberal while in other aspects they're not liberal enough. I think we've become so concerned with humantarian and freedom issues, even national defence related, that we're willing to inflict long-term, implicit harm on ourselves. Lawyers really are bastards, huh? Lawsuit here, lawsuit there. The US's judicial system is almost a joke and Europe's is in close pursuit.

Dilemma: If the parents are unwilling or incapable of disciplining or properly maintaining their children, then who will the onus fall to? Apparently the schools, and sometimes the law, are bearing the brunt of this onus. The schools of my father and grandfather's time employed disciplinary measures that are shunned in present times. They didn't become a bunch of abused, bully low-lifes like everyone fears these days. This little unruly girl obviously has no actual discipline or respect; it appears she's used to having her way with everything. I've watched the clip many times and she behaved as if it was a game. I mean, come on, people; those who call this crap child abuse are causing more broader harm than they realize. Are we going to require parents to heed every school's situation with a child; a child that, say, for example, refuses to return from recess; are we to require, by law, that parents must leave work so they can handle every situation?

Unfortunately, the schools I attended experienced numerous similar incidents. I've witnessed first-hand what this crap is like and it's ridiculous. Sometimes a teacher was powerless and the child just 'walked all over them'. I hate saying it, but western society has lost a lot of its backbone. Call me facsist if you'd like, I frankly wouldn't care 'cause I know I'm not; but I believe law, discipline, etc., can be successfully enforced without infringing on peoples' complete freedom. This idea that societal freedom means you can do whatever you want or else sue is insane. In this child's case, it's whatever she wants to do and only her own blood can reprimand her is, to me, poppycock.

Of course, this is merely my opinion.

[Milteades]

Have you ever been assaulted by a 5 year old? Dont assume she is going to end up in a gang or whatever, that doesnt justify treating her like a criminal, she's a 5 year for chrissakes.

She obviously is old enough to punch an assistant principal and rampage about the room in a violent but probably hilarious manner.

And they called the cops, it is not like the cops were just passing by and handcuffed her. She was obviously a threat, which warranted the police being called, and then the police, falling back on what theyve been trained to do in this kind of situation, they restrained her. They followed proper procedures.

Three officers is a bit much? Bah! I was taken into the hospital when I was about her age, I was a little idiot and stuck paper into my ear, it according to my mom (a registered nurse), IIRC five doctors and nurses to hold me down while they removed it, but I do not remember anything but one little bit of it.

[barbarion horde]

Just a Thought...........


Shouldn't it be the parent's job to discipline the child, not the police?

[hormiga]

Originally posted by Milteades@Apr 25 2005, 11:31 PM
She obviously is old enough to punch an assistant principal and rampage about the room in a violent but probably hilarious manner.

Watch the video she takes some swings but barely conects. The kid is tiny compared to the whale of a teacher. The teacher basically follows her around like an idiot telling her to stop. I would like to know why was the kid pissed? Why was she being filmed? Why didnt the teacher just put the kid in a room to cool off?

She was obviously a threat, which warranted the police being called, and then the police, falling back on what theyve been trained to do in this kind of situation, they restrained her. They followed proper procedures.

Again watch the video. She was calmed down than the cop decides to cuff her and arrest her apparently. The male cop could probably pick the girl up and restrain her with one hand.

My definition of threat does not apply to tiny little kids throwing tantrums.

And yeah the kid screams when she gets cuffed, I would too if I had three big cops grappling with me.

Im glad everyone here seems to agree that the police and teachers have the skills to handle small children but I will never have that trust. I think a cop that feels the need to hand cuff a small child has shown some pretty piss poor judgement skills.

[Carsomyr]

Originally posted by hormiga+Apr 25 2005, 11:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td> (hormiga @ Apr 25 2005, 11:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Milteades@Apr 25 2005, 11:31 PM
She obviously is old enough to punch an assistant principal and rampage about the room in a violent but probably hilarious manner.

Watch the video she takes some swings but barely conects. The kid is tiny compared to the whale of a teacher. The teacher basically follows her around like an idiot telling her to stop. I would like to know why was the kid pissed? Why was she being filmed? Why didnt the teacher just put the kid in a room to cool off?


Again watch the video. She was calmed down than the cop decides to cuff her and arrest her apparently. The male cop could probably pick the girl up and restrain her with one hand.

My definition of threat does not apply to tiny little kids throwing tantrums.

And yeah the kid screams when she gets cuffed, I would too if I had three big cops grappling with me.

Im glad everyone here seems to agree that the police and teachers have the skills to handle small children but I will never have that trust. I think a cop that feels the need to hand cuff a small child has shown some pretty piss poor judgement skills. [/b][/quote]
I disagree. I think the policeman cuffed her because he was afraid to deal with her on a more personal level; in fear of judicial backlash. Imagine if the girl began struggling and crying while the police held onto her. You&#39;d have people screaming child abuse about that and people would demand police to be restricted from even touching kids.

[RusskiSoldat]

My stance on this: You touch my 5 year old kid and Im going to break your arm. No one should touch my kid unless that kid is a threat to someone and a 5 year old is not a threat. Certainly not a threat to 3 grown officers.

You tell me that my solution is wrong, well what&#39;s yours?

The reason I asked was because you said it was too much in the first post but then you railed against me and you seem to have an issue with the laws of America. Sure people sue people here, sometimes for dumb reasons but handcuffing a 5year oldis something that is definitly worthly of investigation and legal action.

You misunderstood me. There would ahve been no handcuffing if the teacher took out a paddle and spanked her, this all could ahve been avoided. But that&#39;s either racism,child abuse, or both in America.

Have you ever been assaulted by a 5 year old? Dont assume she is going to end up in a gang or whatever, that doesnt justify treating her like a criminal, she&#39;s a 5 year for chrissakes.

Such things must be curbed at an early age.

Watch the video she takes some swings but barely conects. The kid is tiny compared to the whale of a teacher. The teacher basically follows her around like an idiot telling her to stop. I would like to know why was the kid pissed? Why was she being filmed? Why didnt the teacher just put the kid in a room to cool off?

She was filmed because it was self improvement day ro something (read the article) and someone brought a camera in as a project. And the teacher couldn&#39;t touch the kid without aforementioned cries of racism and child abuse.

Again watch the video. She was calmed down than the cop decides to cuff her and arrest her apparently. The male cop could probably pick the girl up and restrain her with one hand.

My definition of threat does not apply to tiny little kids throwing tantrums.

And yeah the kid screams when she gets cuffed, I would too if I had three big cops grappling with me.

Im glad everyone here seems to agree that the police and teachers have the skills to handle small children but I will never have that trust. I think a cop that feels the need to hand cuff a small child has shown some pretty piss poor judgement skills.

I think a call to her parents would have been sufficient, but I do not blame the police for doing their job.

[Bubba_Joe]

Ah, pity the west did not have a Confucious. Here in Singapore, the most lenient of our secondary schools(13-16 y.o.) would probably be considered a military school in america. Just talk back to a teacher and it&#39;s public caning infront of the whole school (atleast a 1500 students)...

[Ardeur]

Im glad everyone here seems to agree that the police and teachers have the skills to handle small children but I will never have that trust. I think a cop that feels the need to hand cuff a small child has shown some pretty piss poor judgement skills.

I haven&#39;t seen the video, but if the teacher was insisting on pressing charges for her violent beating at the hands of a 5-year-old, the the cops would have to follow proper arrest procedure. This would involve reading the child her rights, and hand cuffing her. Its the written procedure for arrests, and not following that procedure could get the officer in trouble.

Have you ever been assaulted by a 5 year old? Dont assume she is going to end up in a gang or whatever, that doesnt justify treating her like a criminal, she&#39;s a 5 year for chrissakes.

Under older circumstances, I would agree completely with you. However, we live in an age when American children bring guns to school, and what starts out as a tantrum, can very easily turn into a dangerous situation. The teacher in question knows more about this kid than we do. Perhaps the kid comes from a troubled home, is exposed to violent crimes, and has learned about the use of a gun. In the light of the recent school shootings, all threats, whether they be from a 16-17 year old, or a 5 year old, need to be taken seriously.