Battle System (2hp)

**Vercingetorix_Defeated** · March 23, 2009, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

Berserkers and Elephants should be good. They should break enemies when used right, and bounce off when used wrong. Beserkers may not have been Jedi (which were slaughtered during Ep3

), but they bring some much needer variety and something really interesting.

Yeah, it's always a nice surprise to be slaughtering 5000 barbarians when you realize "50 of those guys aren't just average fanatical types, but they're REALLY fanatical types, so strong they can send my guys flying 10 feet in the air and kill more than the rest of their army put together!"

Berserkers had NO historical accuracy whatsoever. It's funny to hear some people say that certain things shouldn't be in the game for reasons of historical accuracy, but then go "we want crazy uber berserkers"

**Darth Alec** · March 23, 2009, 03:45 PM

You win in the end though, you just loose a few more guys. It may not be historical, but it sure is fun.

**Vercingetorix_Defeated** · March 23, 2009, 05:06 PM

Fun is subjective. And I don't see why uber powered berserkers are "fun."

Sure, maybe in the LOTR TW mod with uruk hai guys or something. But not in XGM, for me at least.

That's the best thing about RTW though, it's so easy to modify the basic stats of the game.

**Darth Alec** · March 23, 2009, 05:47 PM

I guess. But It's still pretty cool to watch berserkers do their thing

**krasni** · March 27, 2009, 01:18 AM

Dime, I agree that the 2hp system is good for archers. I've always found archers annoying. They may have been historically pretty lethal but I think it's more fun to have them tuned down.

However, I think the new 2hp system turns rome into a total joke. Rome's strength, IMO, was in their units that flung javelins before a charge. With a 1hp system, this causes significant casualties and makes roman units something to be feared. With 2hp, spears are of no concern. In my current campaign rome is sending huge armies of hastati and principes to siege one of my cities, but since their fighting style has been made so ineffective, I can garrison my cities with 4-6 decent phalanx units and defend the city square indefinately, even as in one case there were nearly 40 units attacking.

**Darth Alec** · March 27, 2009, 02:30 AM

The Pilums cause as much damage as before, they just don't kill anyone. Once combat has begun (close combat that is, not stab-yourself-on-a-pike combat), they quickly kill the enemy.

**aznflea** · March 27, 2009, 02:55 AM

why not just reduce lethality of archers to 0.5? and turn it back into 1 hp system?

**Roman Warlord** · March 27, 2009, 06:24 AM

You really don't understand why the 2hp system was implememnted it was to make battles longer....

**DimeBagHo** · March 27, 2009, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by aznflea

why not just reduce lethality of archers to 0.5? and turn it back into 1 hp system?

Lethality has no effect on ranged attacks.

**RedFox** · March 27, 2009, 10:35 AM

Battles can be also made longer by reducing infantry/cavalry lethality values and also increase unit defense stats. I agree that this 2hp system is a huge joke and completely unrealistic.

Dime, XGM has been going downhill for quite some time, 30 stacks on screen, hordes and hordes of scythians, repetitive and boring gameplay. I think 2hp system is the last straw to completely turn me off from XGM.

XGM 3 was by far the best.

**Vercingetorix_Defeated** · March 27, 2009, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by krasni

Dime, I agree that the 2hp system is good for archers. I've always found archers annoying. They may have been historically pretty lethal but I think it's more fun to have them tuned down.

However, I think the new 2hp system turns rome into a total joke. Rome's strength, IMO, was in their units that flung javelins before a charge. With a 1hp system, this causes significant casualties and makes roman units something to be feared. With 2hp, spears are of no concern. In my current campaign rome is sending huge armies of hastati and principes to siege one of my cities, but since their fighting style has been made so ineffective, I can garrison my cities with 4-6 decent phalanx units and defend the city square indefinately, even as in one case there were nearly 40 units attacking.

I always wonder how many casualties pilum and skirmisher javelins should inflict. It's kind of annoying when the enemy gets one volley off at you and kills half of your unit, when it would take them 10 minutes to kill half of it in close combat. But then again, it's also annoying to have like 800 javelins thrown at one unit and only have 40 of them die.

We should try and figure out what a reasonably accurate number of casualties from javelins and pilum would be. I can't really decide.

**Zarax** · March 27, 2009, 11:40 AM

Pilum casualties were around 10% from roman reports.

**Vercingetorix_Defeated** · March 27, 2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Zarax

Pilum casualties were around 10% from roman reports.

Hmm, so if a cohort of 240 roman legionaries throws two volleys of pilum into an enemy unit of the same size, the enemy unit should take around 48 casualties.

Sounds like a pretty good number, I'll have to test to see how close to that my current stats are.

What about skirmisher javelins? Those are considerably lighter and with less penetrating power than pilum, right?

**Zarax** · March 27, 2009, 11:47 AM

Yes but there are no stats about them...

**Vercingetorix_Defeated** · March 27, 2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Zarax

Yes but there are no stats about them...

I mean testing in-game to see how many casualties they currently inflict. Then changing the stats if necessary to bring it closer to that number.

**vivv Kraken** · October 10, 2010, 12:20 PM

hmm just a thought why not make it one spartan unit of 300 men and make them more of a royal guard to accompony your king shure it would be a beast and make one of your armies almost unbeatable but it would be one unit max. Just set recuitment to 9999 turns

So retraining would be posible.

What about skirmisher javelins? Those are considerably lighter and with less penetrating power than pilum, right?
But then agen they are purely javelin troops focusing their entire training on it and they carry more javelins so in my oppinion they should be mutch more effective at throwing than the legonaries. Bit like modern javelin ofc an olympic thrower they will throw a javelin longer and with greater accuracy than any other

80-90meters is reachable by the best olympic throwers so uhm 50-70 meters should be doable by skirmishers.

**DimeBagHo** · October 10, 2010, 12:49 PM

Unfortunately the maximum unit size is 240 + officers (on huge) so we can't get a 300 man unit. However, unit sizes are really scaled down a bit in RTW. A Roman cohort typically numbered around 500 men, compared with the 100 on large or 200 on huge you get in RTW, so a single full sized unit is really more than enough to represent the 300 men of the Spartan Royal Guard.

**vivv Kraken** · October 11, 2010, 03:31 PM

hum bit of a bummer but yeah supose it dosent make any diffrance.
yea got a script error when i atempted it

**vivv Kraken** · October 11, 2010, 04:09 PM

but i did manage to make spartan royal guards ---> into royal guards, general units lol
Did not become to over powered either as their still only recuitable in sparta as i only gave the spartans the ability to be generals

**knguyen_93** · October 11, 2010, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by vivv Kraken

but i did manage to make spartan royal guards ---> into royal guards, general units lol
Did not become to over powered either as their still only recuitable in sparta as i only gave the spartans the ability to be generals

A general without horse is an easy target