With current battle AI, canister shot seems unfair

**Barabus** · March 10, 2009, 07:57 PM

So I am coming to the conclusion that canister shot is just too good given what the battle AI likes to do in the face of cannons. I have tried this in some custom battles and on a few GC battles as well.

Two caveats, first, you have to shadow their cav, if they don't have any, no worries, if they do, you need to stick your cav on them due to cav's limited AI in battles. For me it seems cav AI goes like this,

IF there is artillery
THEN charge and attack artillery
IF there is no artillery
THEN still and do nothing till it's too late anyway

So they will rush your cannons if they aren't blocked

The other one is that you have to have the canister shot tech and at least four artillery units in your force

I do my layout like such (this would be for six artillery units)

ICCCICCCI
H IIIIIIII H

You pack the rest of your army in behind the front line and inside the columns marked by your cav units

Now any human opponent with half a brain is going to horse shoe that formation and crush your sack, but the battle AI actually forms into a V shape, and this is the best part, and closes to firing range with your first line but does not charge cannon formation, they actually target the infantry most of the time. There is no flank envelopment, they basically funnel into your cannon's overlapping field of fire.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want canister shot toned down, it does exactly what should happen when you're lobbing watermelon sized shotgun shells at densely packed and relatively unarmored humans. But the opponent either needs to push the flanks or just charge the cannons, you don't what to bring a musket to a artillery gun fight.

I would also mention to offset your general from the pack as if they are using artillery themselves you're bound to loose a few guys and they always aim for the pack in my experience.

This is on VH/VH

**Inquizitor** · March 10, 2009, 08:04 PM

I know when I let my artillery fire at while they will concentrate on teh enemy general if present. I think the Enemy AI does the same.

**Barabus** · March 10, 2009, 08:19 PM

Well, i am a proponent of the general on a hill in the far rear with a nice view of the festivities, I don't bring him in unless it's for a jolly router romp or it's situation critical and I need to flank.

**ckangas** · March 10, 2009, 08:47 PM

Imo just play on VH battle difficulty...you'll need all the AI glitching (sending half their force at a time, sitting in garrison buildings until they're destroyed, etc) to win

.

**Barabus** · March 10, 2009, 09:00 PM

my very last line was,

This is on VH/VH

**ckangas** · March 10, 2009, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Barabus

my very last line was,

This is on VH/VH

I didn't see that the first time around. I actually haven't tried your strat - I've always kept my artillery behind my infantry, its interesting that they ignore your cannons and go for your infantry instead.

But I'll try that out tonight....it definitely sounds like a bug in the AI - you would think artillery would have the highest priority. Good to know though.

**Barabus** · March 10, 2009, 09:26 PM

give it a go, you really haven't witnessed the glory of canister shot till it's about 100 meters away and against ten ranks deep...it's....awesome...

**Tariq** · March 10, 2009, 09:29 PM

I always kept cannons in center first line, and AI never went after them.

They generally look completely obsessed on how to get to my General only.

**Barabus** · March 11, 2009, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by mlp071

I always kept cannons in center first line, and AI never went after them.

They generally look completely obsessed on how to get to my General only.

So I read this, and I tried something, I usually had my general at the very back of my deployment area, and they ignored him for the most part. But if i bring him to the front, you can actually easily manipulate how their army moves in reaction to your general....just start him on a flank and bring him in behind your cannon and the funneling of the enemy army is even more pronounced...this battle AI ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

**Tariq** · March 11, 2009, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Barabus

So I read this, and I tried something, I usually had my general at the very back of my deployment area, and they ignored him for the most part. But if i bring him to the front, you can actually easily manipulate how their army moves in reaction to your general....just start him on a flank and bring him in behind your cannon and the funneling of the enemy army is even more pronounced...this battle AI ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

Yeah , i know it has been like that in RTW and M2TW also.I can't tell you how many times i manipulated AI faction into ambush in EB(if there were wooded ares on battle map), just by using my general and positioning him.

That alone can show you that they didn't do anything with battle AI since RTW ,it have been joke then , it's even bigger joke now..lol

**CheeseMuncher** · March 11, 2009, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Barabus

So I am coming to the conclusion that canister shot is just too good given what the battle AI likes to do in the face of cannons. I have tried this in some custom battles and on a few GC battles as well.

Two caveats, first, you have to shadow their cav, if they don't have any, no worries, if they do, you need to stick your cav on them due to cav's limited AI in battles. For me it seems cav AI goes like this,

IF there is artillery
THEN charge and attack artillery
IF there is no artillery
THEN still and do nothing till it's too late anyway

So they will rush your cannons if they aren't blocked

The other one is that you have to have the canister shot tech and at least four artillery units in your force

I do my layout like such (this would be for six artillery units)

ICCCICCCI
H IIIIIIII H

You pack the rest of your army in behind the front line and inside the columns marked by your cav units

Now any human opponent with half a brain is going to horse shoe that formation and crush your sack, but the battle AI actually forms into a V shape, and this is the best part, and closes to firing range with your first line but does not charge cannon formation, they actually target the infantry most of the time. There is no flank envelopment, they basically funnel into your cannon's overlapping field of fire.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want canister shot toned down, it does exactly what should happen when you're lobbing watermelon sized shotgun shells at densely packed and relatively unarmored humans. But the opponent either needs to push the flanks or just charge the cannons, you don't what to bring a musket to a artillery gun fight.

I would also mention to offset your general from the pack as if they are using artillery themselves you're bound to loose a few guys and they always aim for the pack in my experience.

This is on VH/VH

Could you post a screenshot? Thanks!!!

**Killergold88** · March 12, 2009, 05:38 AM

everytime i play with any faction in any fight, they always try to bumb rush my general... every time...! any formation ive ever set into... they try for my general... ive actually have had cav charge through my lines and try in a desperate attempt to take out my general whos 3 lines behind infantry or similar... its kind of annoying... and makes for really boring victories

**Skyline Pete** · March 12, 2009, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Barabus

So I read this, and I tried something, I usually had my general at the very back of my deployment area, and they ignored him for the most part. But if i bring him to the front, you can actually easily manipulate how their army moves in reaction to your general....just start him on a flank and bring him in behind your cannon and the funneling of the enemy army is even more pronounced...this battle AI ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

Well duh, it's only a matter of time before people find out exactly what makes the AI tick and then use that to their advantage.

On VH/VH (when it works) I've seen the AI send their cav literally around the outside of the map in attempts to get my general or my artillery. The first few times I got caught out big time and even though I lost a lot of guns it was still great to see.

So now whenever the AI brings cav I have to leave a troop or two behind to cover my guns/general.

**Jayzilla** · March 12, 2009, 09:46 AM

i'm hoping for that AI patch to fix sieges and make cannons a target of priority.

Those to fixes would solve most of my gripes with the AI: it's actually sometimes crazy-smart.

**MrMT** · March 12, 2009, 10:57 AM

I have found something similar. I had a long row of cannon, and flanked them with infantry behind trenches at an angle, forming a kind of funnel. Wave after wave marched into the cannon, and then started attacking the infantry behind their barrier! Incredible stupid, made the battle for philadelphia no challenge at all.