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Thread: Is it wrong for a soldier to be satisfied killing?

  1. #1
    Eric's Avatar Praepositus
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    okay I was studying some things about WWI bayonet use for an essay in History class and I found a quote by a veteran being interviewed about the first time he struck a German with his bayonet "sickening yet exhilarating butchery [that was] gorgeously satisfying... Exultant satisfaction" and I thought "what is wrong with him" so what is wrong with him?
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    hormiga's Avatar Senator
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    Stabbing people with your bayonet lets you surrender to your "base animal side". Kind of like the movie Fight Club, where guys just got a thrill out of beating each other to a pulp for the pure "manliness" of it.

    I dont think there is anything wrong with the guy, I mean he does say it is sickening.

    But we arent supposed to enjoy those things because they arent "civil".

    interesting discussion topic, it might turn into a flame magnet though (I hope not).

  3. #3

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    Indeed, It's not all that uncommon for Soldiers to "lose it" and begin to "enjoy" their work while hating it at the same time.

  4. #4
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    i dunno why humans wouldn't like killing and fighting.
    its in our nature. look at us, we are here to kill and destroy. we are here to clear the slate for evolution to move on to the next stage.
    it happens every few eons.

  5. #5

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    Originally posted by Eric@Apr 21 2005, 07:45 PM
    okay I was studying some things about WWI bayonet use for an essay in History class and I found a quote by a veteran being interviewed about the first time he struck a German with his bayonet "sickening yet exhilarating butchery [that was] gorgeously satisfying... Exultant satisfaction" and I thought "what is wrong with him" so what is wrong with him?
    in war there are and only 2 moods.
    1: boredom.
    2: absolute, sheer excitement.

    the former consumes the vast majority of the time.
    the reason many soldiers come home broken is during those brief moments of sheer exhileration they almost enjoy what they do; and later on many reflect upon it and realize that they were not participating in some game, but participating in state-sanctioend murder, and many break down as a result.

  6. #6
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    we are psychotic apes. nothing harder to grasp. its as simple as that.

  7. #7

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    No, that is pretty much in the job description.


    No matter what a recruiter tells you, you will be a soldier, and soldiers have a habit of being ordered to go and kill people.
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  8. #8
    jared_simmons
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    Its hard to get anymore personal than a bayonet charge are you sure he wasn't satisfied that the German was dead an not him??

  9. #9
    Biarchus
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    Originally posted by Hapsburg@Apr 21 2005, 06:20 PM
    look at us, we are here to kill and destroy. we are here to clear the slate for evolution to move on to the next stage.
    it happens every few eons.
    True, but this is does not state the reason of why a soldier would be satisfied by killing another person.

    I say that every so once and awhile when soldiers are under stress (hard hard stress) they need to let out thier anger on the battlefield.
    The follwing may happen when this phase takes place;
    1. They may fire a bazooka straight into the air, thus giving off their position and challenging the enemy. After the enemy spots them, he or she will then start a killing spree by shooting any one person on the field with any weapon in their arsenal. (Laughing and evil laugh as they force blood into the air!!!!!!! *bringiton* :lol )
    2. If he or she is on a special squad sent to ambush an enemy camp, they may take a tank and destroy everything in sight! (Again laughing in their satisfaction&#33
    or 3. If he or she is a spy, they may walk up to the enemy leader and viciously kill them (this time putting on an evil smile that seems to stretch a mile!!! :grin )

    Many more things may happen in this cenario, but I only have the time to list 3.

  10. #10
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    delete
    Last edited by MaximiIian; November 27, 2008 at 09:50 PM.

  11. #11
    hormiga's Avatar Senator
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    You guys read way too many comic books or something.

  12. #12
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    no, we just realize that this is a radioactive dirtball controlled by psychotic apes.

  13. #13
    Invoker's Avatar Philosopher-King
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    Doing your job as a soldier and fighting for your nation is one thing, enjoying the job, particularly killing people, is another. I think that yeah, it is wrong, because killing people is a wrong thing to do, and enjoying it really isn't too good of a thing either.
    Servant in the House of Siblesz under the Patronage of the fallen Crandar.

  14. #14
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    its not an unnatural thing to kill, ya know.
    its a part of human nature that we have come to live with.
    we use words like "morals" and "pacifism" to try to make war and slaughter seem wrong, when it is only humans doing what humans do best.

  15. #15
    Semisalis
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    Unfortunately, killing is one of those things that become easeier the more you do it. Sometimes to the point of actually enjoying it.

    Humans are hunters(that is one reason why our eyes look forword instead of to the sides like other animals) and as such, killing is our instincts.

    If you look at human history, you can notice by all definition, we are a warrior race and war and killing is unfortunataley vital to growth and progression, that is why some of the most groundbreaking technology is forged during wars and Nations are forged and destroyed through war.

    Well that's just my crackpot opinion.
    In ethical theory, I should care. I know that I should care. However, emotionally, to be perfectly honest, I don't give a damn.
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  16. #16

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    you guys brought forward a point i never thought of.
    I guess that makes sense, people who always kill and butcher inhabitants of cities eg: Mongols must have enjoyed it.

    BUT then my question is why do so many soldiers need psychologists for "post war trauma"?
    Or refuse "to talk about" a war. Eg: my friends dad refusing to talk about vietnam. (with his daughter that is)

    I would also like to bring a point forward, perhaps because we've seen so much psychology in movies :whistle
    I have recently thought that it is possible for killers (i dont mean soldiers, i mean murderers) to kill and not feel bad, because they feel they are superior to the other person. Why did i think of this, because when we kill an ant (or a few hundred with chemical warfare known as PIFPAF) we feel nothing.

    EDIT: Forgot to add an example to soldiers who were not enjoying killing. The romans after taking Carthage killed 450,000/500,000
    inhabitants. The largest killing of civilians prior to WWII. Polybius says that the roman killing groups had to regularly change so they wouldnt tire and to preserve their sanity.

    The romans nonetheless followed the orders but would not have liked it as they were clearly killing people who had done them no wrong.

  17. #17
    Invoker's Avatar Philosopher-King
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    Originally posted by hannibal89@Apr 21 2005, 11:58 PM
    you guys brought forward a point i never thought of.
    I guess that makes sense, people who always kill and butcher inhabitants of cities eg: Mongols must have enjoyed it.

    BUT then my question is why do so many soldiers need psychologists for "post war trauma"?
    Or refuse "to talk about" a war. Eg: my friends dad refusing to talk about vietnam. (with his daughter that is)

    I would also like to bring a point forward, perhaps because we've seen so much psychology in movies :whistle
    I have recently thought that it is possible for killers (i dont mean soldiers, i mean murderers) to kill and not feel bad, because they feel they are superior to the other person. Why did i think of this, because when we kill an ant (or a few hundred with chemical warfare known as PIFPAF) we feel nothing.
    Good point, but its that lack of feeling bad for killing somebody that scares me. I think its much healthier to come back from a war feeling terrible about the violence and killing that you witinessed and took part in, as opposed to taking pleasure from it.

    When we feel numb about these things is bad enough, but when we take pleasure from them....that's even worse.
    Servant in the House of Siblesz under the Patronage of the fallen Crandar.

  18. #18
    Leonidas480bc's Avatar Semisalis
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    Unless you have ever been shot at you will never know. I am a retired Marine who served in Deasert Storm, The first thing i briefed my Squad on was that all the training they had completed didnt matter if they didnt pull the trigger. War in and of itself is one scared SOB staring at another equally scared SOB 500m away and being told to shoot him. When rounds start to fly over your head, your first instinct will be to hit the deck. It is then that all your training comes into effect. Squad leaders barking out commands. Our guys returning fire. You see movement to your front at 300m .....Aim breathe in let half your breath out and pull the trigger. After the firefight you sweep their pos to check for hostiles and come across the shadow that you fired apon. A Soldier lies dead his eyes open, shot in the chest. I was so excited, adrenaline pumping, glad that i killed him and not the other way around. Even joked about it. But time has a way of allowing you time to think on your actions both good and bad. Am i glad i killed him yes..... but i wish that i didnt have to. All in all i killed 5 enemy soldiers that i know of, that on a diferent day might have been my friend.

  19. #19
    Zuwxiv's Avatar Bear Claus
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    Humans (and soldiers) really don't want to kill eachother. In WWI, and in almost any war for that matter, the soldiers do not really want to kill eachother. (Christmas truce of 1914) The only reason why a soldier would want to kill the enemy is because of the loads of propaganda they are fed, ie Germans are cold heartless killers, Americans are greedy money grabbing pigs, commie bastards, terrorists (ya, thats right, it can be called propaganda: your government wants you to hate them so you can kill them. Of course many hate americans... But that is because they have been brainwashed.) and many others. "War" as we know it today comes from a few high up people who make a decision that changes millions if not billions of lives.

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  20. #20

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    In my opinion (not that anybody asked :whistle )

    The provision against murder is a provision for civil society. You have fellows not enemies.

    This does not hold in warfare. You have fellows and enemies. Fellows are to be protected, trusted and relied on. Enemies are to be conquered and killed.

    You owe nothing to an enemy, with *possibly* very minimal exceptions.

    You do owe things to your fellows, including quite possibly your life.

    Those who, I presume, thrive the best in warfare are the ones who can make the transition from the state of being in a society to a state of having mortal enemies. Of course, as it is well attested, some greatly prefer the latter to the former.

    I think there ought to be a distinction made between those who take pleasure in doing their job well, in this case being a soldier and those who get themselves into warfighting SO THAT they can kill people.

    I don't see anything wrong with the former. The latter... well they can be of use in a war... afterwards though, I would think that they might be ::ahem:: a little problematic.

    For the record, I have no love for pacifists.

    EDIT:: Habsburg, I'm a fan of Franc Josef; know where I can get a good image of a portrait for my desktop, preferably similar to the icon you use?

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