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Thread: Naval Tactics Thread

  1. #121

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by a432 View Post
    Has anybody put together a chart for the all the naval ships? So I know the true stat of the ships instead on relaying on the tool tips?
    The FUSIL has a Dockyard section:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=241293

  2. #122

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    If you want to fight big ships with small, the best advice I have is to stay upwind of them, firing broadsides against their bows from long range.

  3. #123

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    In one battle I had six brigs versus 4 4th rates and 4 6th/sloop/brigs. Realizing I was screwed, I sent half my brigs to board fourth rates, the other half maneuvered to get rammed by the fourth rates. In the end two of my brigs exploded, bringing down 2 fourth rates and a sloop. Brigs pretty reliably explode when hit by tons of roundshot, and while this may be the least historically accurate tactic on the planet, it's fairly amusing.

  4. #124
    Civis
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    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    I generally put my rates ships in one group, brigs and sloops in others. I try to time it so both groups are going down the line at the same time. After that I generally disband my group of small ships and have them darting around here and there, generally raising hell with chain and grape while my bigs circle around outside. if a small start struggling, I go to boarding mode with chain. The enemy tends to hit there own ships, and if you small goes up, you can take one with you.

    I guess I'm a really evil SOB wih my smalls.
    Let us to't pell-mell
    If not to heaven, then hand in hand to hell

    Dick3

  5. #125

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    I too have a main battle line (or two), and a brig/sloop group (or two). A brig group is great for tricking an enemy (AI) fleet into losing the weather gauge advantage by chasing fast units downwind of my main battle line. The fast units can escape due to their pointing ability and speed.

  6. #126

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Hate to drag up old threads, but in case anyone hasn't noticed. One of the larger complaints of boarding is that their ships continue to fire while yours do not if you have fire at will on (known bug current patch).

    You can however override this fact by clicking the Broadside button, prepping a broadside and firing manually. Bonus is that you get a damage bonus on broadsides for each shot connected as well and essentially every shot will hit because of the proximity.

    Also if you are utilizing grape shot, unfortunately the only way to effectively kill the crew below the deck is to open up holes in the hull by using round shot. So while boarding, I would suggest using a broadside of round and then using grape after that.

  7. #127

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    I have found the Double Line formation to be incredibly effective in multiplayer games. If you prefer to keep your ships in a single group (as I do) it is important to take into consideration their speed characteristics otherwise you'll end up breaking your battle line and getting raked.

    In the videos below my opponent's Second Rate ships outpaced his HMS Victory and Heavy First Rate, allowing me to deal with each group individually and on my terms. My fleet was generally lighter, three First Rates and three Third Rates which not only meant I had a speed advantage but also that I was able to afford an additional ship over my opponent and give them all one chevron each. The fact that my ships were weaker meant nothing because he simply could not bring all his guns to bear on me at once. I am playing as the Prussians, my opponent the British.

    Pt 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGjVkJaNoYo

    Pt 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WdH0-2RXYg

    Excuse the fuzzy quality. First experience with FRAPS and first ever Youtube uploads. Plus my computer is a bit naff. I'm still using Win2000 god dammit!
    Last edited by Caspian237; April 13, 2009 at 12:33 PM.

  8. #128

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Nice battle Caspian, not only excellent use of a double line, but your choice in placement to cross him was near perfect since it broke his fleet into two different groups none of which had the same speed/gun class preventing him from mustering a suitable counter.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Thanks MyKingforahorse. I was lucky to be sailing directly against the wind at the point I broke his line. A few chain shot strikes against his second ship also helped me greatly in this endevour. Such small advantages had huge results for me.

  10. #130

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    First do not bother with the automatic formations. Control each ship independently but move as a unit. Moving with your ships grouped will only cause trouble. Not as bad as artillery on auto fire but still an issue.

    The computer loves using line astern formation which is why I use line abreast formation. As the enemy move in to close they will angle to bring their guns to bear. Once they are starting to fire with the first ship my entire line turns 90 degrees. If done correctly you should now have 3-4 ships firing against one of theirs.

    1 Battle starts

    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ |






    _| _ | _ | _ | _ |



    2 Enemy opens fire

    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ \
    _ _ _ _ _ \



    _| _ | _ | _ | _ |


    3 Turn and fight

    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ |
    _ _ _ _ \
    _ _ _ _ _ \
    _ _ _ _ _ _\


    _
    _
    _ __ __ __ __



    Now your entire battle line is firing on half of his squadron giving you a decisive edge in the early fight.

    If he has the wind his sails will be full and an excellent target for grape shot. Demast the first 2 ships and run. When his ships are spread out, turn and destroy him in detail.

    If you have the wind on your side it will be harder to close with you. Keep your distance and try to destroy each ship as it moves into range.
    Last edited by dulsin; April 13, 2009 at 02:03 PM.

  11. #131

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Although perhaps a crude tactic, how do you make one of your ships ram into the enemy? I can't seem to find the commands to do it. It's not a tactic as such, but in a last ditch attempt when you only have a galley or a sloop left, can you ram it into the enemy in order to destroy one of their more powerful ships?

  12. #132

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Jonny, there is no command for ramming. You simply point the ship in the right direction and hope that it will hit.

    Duslin, I agree that it is better not to put your fleet into the preset formations however it is useful still to make them into command groups. The hot key is G and it helps keep your units in the formation you've created. I've put a video on you tube using your suggested tactic (two posts above) except I've change my fleet into Double Line.

    As the ships are moving forward in line abreast they are in control group 1. I ungroup them to make the change in formation and then regroup them to move in line. Hope this vid helps explain (I figured how to do better quality vids too.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQApGpr1Q_Q

  13. #133
    Mr Roet's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    If you keep your ships in one group, without using preset formations, will they still follow eachother? Or do you have to turn every ship yourself. And why do you use the interface and not your mouse to move your fleet?

  14. #134

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Mr Roet, if your ships are grouped then they will try to stay in formation keeping correct distances fom each other as per the formation. However to achieve the turn (as in my video) they must be ungrouped, but all selected. I used the console turn button as this results in an overlay for each ship so that you can see properly the direction they will be facing in.

  15. #135

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    When I move ships in groups they try to manuver into a formation. When I make the turn it is realy a change of formation and if I let the computer control that movment the fleet will take some time to gather itself into a new formation. All that time the computer player is pounding my fleet into dust.

    I am starting in an abrest line and using the formations the computer understands would require me to use a cresent formation then select a line astern and then turn. The ships will start turning left right some of them stopping completely and others turning around. This is not the behavior under fire that wins battles.

    If you realy want to use the grouping then I suggest following my plan till after you make the turn then locking them into a group.

    The main disadvantage to my tactics is poor control of ship speed. I tend to keep fleet of a single ship class to make things simpler. If not you need to have the faster ships shorten sail or they will shoot past the heavies and get pounded on to early.

  16. #136
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by c-mattio View Post
    I, too, am finding naval warfare very difficult to master. The best game for well modelled Sail of the Line warfare was Age of Sail 2, which I managed to be a master of. I tend to find this type of combat badly modelled. If any of you were unucky enough to play Imperial Glory, it had the worst system of naval combat ever.
    As far as I can tell the naval combat system used in ETW is identical to the one used in Imperial Glory.

    I find it impossible to get squadrons of ships to sail in a reasonable line astern, even if the ships are all of the same class. Most of the time that I try to do this I wind up with some of the ships damaged by collisions early in the battle. The game needs some way to have ships "follow the leader", which is what virtually all of the western navies during this era did at least at the outset of naval battles.

  17. #137
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MAGNUS454 View Post
    Nelson did not cross the T at Trafalgar. He actually got his own T crossed on purpose. Nelson knew his fleet was far superior to the French/Spanish fleet on a ship to ship basis. His men were much better sailors and gunmen. The French and Spanish, moreover, knew this as well which must not have been very good for morale. They did have him outnumbered, however, 33 to 27 which included 4 Spanish first raters, one with 136 guns.

    Nelson's plan therefore was to negate their numbers advantage and to rely on his superior crews. In a very light wind, he divided his ships into two lines and sailed right at the French/Spanish line. While exposed for up to forty minutes to fire from the Allied line, little damage was done. The Victory's line intersected the French fleet just behind the French flagship cutting off the remaining two thirds of the fleet. The second line cut off the last third of the allied line. His orders were to then engage ship to ship capturing as many as possible. In the end, the allies lost 22 of the 33 many of which were captured. Excepting the flagship, the first section of the allied line never engaged, deciding discretion was indeed the better part of valor.

    The quintessential historical crossing of the T was performed by Admiral Heihachiro Togo at the battle of Tsushima. Out of 28 Russian ships, only 1 cruiser and 2 destroyers escaped.

    Crossing the T began to matter more as naval guns improved. In the day of the all big gun battleships after the British built Dreadnaught in 1905, getting your T crossed meant annihilation.

    Oh and for those of you wondering why, but who don't want to ask, its just simple math with more being better. By crossing the enemies T you bring the full weight of your broadsides to bare on the first couple ships in the enemy line while they can only reply with their forward batteries and from only the first ships.

    It works Ok in the game but the range on the cannon isnt really long enough to do it right. If you can actually get across their bows though, your in for a good day, just make sure you have a broadside ready. I have noticed that if you can manage to shoot them in the rear, it does alot of damage. I divide my ships into two lines and which ever line they turn towards, my other line swoops in and rakes them in their backsides. works pretty well but not all the time as two lines are difficult to manage.

    Last edited by cspimp; March 09, 2009 at 11:38 AM.

    Maybe if you get a history degree you would know that Nelson did in fact cross the T at Trafalgar and was inspired by the thought of the tactic at the battle of the Nile. But any student of History would know that, why don't you stop using Wiki and copy and paste and learn the real facts before spouting your garbage on here.

    In closing your subscription to the history channel does not allow you to talk bollocks about the Russian-Japanese war where the black sea fleet was destroyed by the Japanese under Togo. Crossing the T was first used by Nelson and again if you were academically studied you would know that the Japanese based their naval doctrine on that of the Royal Navy. In fact the attack on Pearl Harbour was a copy of the pre-emptive British attack on the Italian fleet by Admiral Andrew Cunningham's Operation Judgement (the Battle of Taranto).

    So again mate please learn your history from a book and not from an American documentary you might learn the facts.
    Actually Nelson divided his squadrons into several sections and "crossed the T" in several places. Each group of 3 or 4 ships penetrated the Franco-Spanish battle line, raking the ships they passed in front of and behind, then after crossing the enemy's battle line they turned and unleashed broadsides into what had been the unattended sides of the enemy ships. The portion of the Franco-Spanish fleet in the front which was not under attack could not turn to help their beleagured comrades because they could not turn against the wind, so nearly one-third of the Franco-Spanish fleet was unable to participate in the fight.

  18. #138

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    I tried out another game where I start out in Line Abreast and then changed into Double Line. This time I was playing against a live opponent and not the dumb AI. Despite some errors on my part at the begining I'm still really impressed with the maneuver as it gave me some spectacular results and, well, kinda looks cool.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOT7i3o1Cvw


    It is true that the controls can be fiddly and that the ship AI can be idiotic at times, but the more I play, the more depth I can see. Really I think if you were to spend some time familiarising with the little details and learning to get around the little nuisances, then a whole lot of enjoyment can be had. :o) When I first started playing I kinda thought that I was missing something as well. (Actually I was missing something. The focus fire command which wasn't in the manual!)

  19. #139

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    My Mid game fleets usually consist of a couple second rates with 5th and 3rd rate with some bomb ketches.

    The Ai usually puts all its ships in a line and curves to the left of your fleet.
    I just use the 5th's and 3rd's to destroy the small stuff (brigs,6th rates etc.)
    And keep my second rates in the back till then end when they duke it out with the AI's larger ships.

    It seems boarding is bugged, it took 2 Admiral second class's with 150+ men to capture a crippled AI second rate with 80 men?

  20. #140

    Default Re: Naval Tactics Thread

    Yeah, boarding actions seem to be very poorly implemented. The only use I've had for it is to try boarding an enemy ship with one of my badly damaged, burning ships. Hopefully the explosion would destroy them both!

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