The (Old) Official ETW Criticism Thread

[SuperKyle]

Yeah, and you need to read the ing news. We are in an economic crisis. The turnover in the game industry is at a rate of knots already (company mergers, disbandings, bankruptcies) and when you factor in the economic crisis then things start to take a lot more vulnerable look.

So in short, Sega is not invincible, and CA are caught between a rock (Sega) and a hard place (fans - or in this instance). Believe it or not, Sega doesn't give a toss about the quality of the game as long as the profit margin remains. That is why games like Transformers or anything based on film fanchises get made. Direct your ire at Sega, not at CA.

Also, I'm yet to encounter any game breakers - just small tweaks that I overall agree with, and some I don't.

Well...you sound more like a Sega propagandist than anything. You say we're in a depression/economic crisis, so shouldn't fans, also, have a voice of what they think about a game they bought with their hard-earned money? Sounds like you just want to crush the opinions entirely of the fans because CA has a hard time with Sega's deadlines, etc.

It's a two-edged sword.

No game breakers here either, still a great game just needs a lot of tweaks.

[Taer]

.... The gripe is that historical-minded people want to be able to have a short war instead of marching around for years and having to conquer a foe in like...15 years. For example, the war of independence was only a few years, but in this game, assuming 13 colonies are hard to beat, it may take you 10+ years to move the men there and do any good....

Historical-minded people know that the "War of Independence" was more then a few years. They also know that such events as the unification of Germany or the Russian conquest of the Steppes took more then a "few years".

People who want short wars and Blitzkrieg-like tactics should look to other Eras ... like World War 2.

The only thing I would have preferred done different is to have the ability to play all the different factions directly from CA rather then have to rely on the Mod community. I love Mods like Broken Crescent for MW2, however the fact that I might need to mess with files by unpacking them, etc in Empire has me gun-shy about the ease of computer-novices like myself in accessing them.

I'd love to bring Venice into the modern age and return them into a Golden Era; I can only hope modding in Empire turns out as smooth as such classics for MW2 as BC and SS have.

[mgmr]

Well...you sound more like a Sega propagandist than anything. You say we're in a depression/economic crisis, so shouldn't fans, also, have a voice of what they think about a game they bought with their hard-earned money? Sounds like you just want to crush the opinions entirely of the fans because CA has a hard time with Sega's deadlines, etc.

It's a two-edged sword.

No game breakers here either, still a great game just needs a lot of tweaks.

I'm not sure how I sound like a Sega propagandist by pointing out that they are, in effect, a greedy corporate monster. What I'm saying is that everything suffers in economic crisis and the nature of the business world is about turnover, not quality of product.
And I don't want to crush opinions of "fans" (people who seem to leave a franchise like TW because there is only 12 starting factions... or they can't run it on their PC) - I want to point out the realism in reality and that half the criticisms fielded aren't in CAs control or are consumer based (pc can't run it comments). I'm the bullcrap filter.

[JollySam]

It seems to me that we've reached a stage where getting PC games to work is just getting too complicated for the average non-computer-expert gamer, due to the huge amount of different PC's/grapics cards/processors, etc now available.

If you buy a console game, you might like it, you might not, but you KNOW it'll work.

[twist_the_wrist]

A mod can easily fix that though. But, considering AI, I just played the Road to Independence, I'm on ch.2 and I fought an indian battle where 700 indians stood still and died. Their archers killed 70 of my men and I shot 700 in about 8 minutes of them standing there. =( ??

holy crap i had the same exact thing happen to me. i was VERY dissappointed. they just massed up and charged my middle two militia units and those 2 units 3 men deep were able to hold 700 indians while my flanks just shot them from the side till they all routed. terrible battle.

i love the campaign map. everyone who says there isn't enough stuff or that there needs to be more regions doesn't know the point of the new system. i mean c'mon, if Paris was sacked, don't you think the French would surrender? i do. (sure there would be a resistance or rebellion force).

i mean here are my pros:

-tech tree and its consequent tech race for superiority. no longer is it just about having a bigger economy to build newer buildings and pump out greater numbers of troops. now you can have smaller, more advanced armies.

-new gov't models and their intricacies (such as the fact that protestant countries will find it harder to get along with catholics)

-very detailed trade models in the game with the ability to raid. this completely legitimizes large scale navys. i was playing 10 turns as France and since my navy sucked compared to GB, i was strangled from trade and my army was useless. which brings me to my next point...

-army/fleet interception zones, very usefull

cons:

-land battle AI has its ups and downs for sure. they definately spread the battlefield but they're choices are sometimes bad. i wish it was better and i hope it gets better soon.

-naval battles lack of wind importance is really bad (but this has been discussed in depth so ill leave it be).

-some strange choices for stats such as a 74 gun 3rd rate having higher firepower than a 90 gun 2nd rate or the fact that Austria has 200 man units that are weaker while Russia doesn't. theres another thread on how GB has overwhelmingly more powerful infantry units and variety while everyone else (besides maybe France) has crap in comparison.



really though, i have alot of fun playing it and will just play and hope for some patches and great mods. still very fun game.

[priam11]

It seems to me that we've reached a stage where getting PC games to work is just getting too complicated for the average non-computer-expert gamer, due to the huge amount of different PC's/grapics cards/processors, etc now available.

If you buy a console game, you might like it, you might not, but you KNOW it'll work.

And that really is the kicker and why many gaming companies are going that route away from the pc (I am talking to you EA Sports). It is a heck of lot less complicated with regards to compatibility with different system parts vs. software.

ETW is a very ambitious project.

[Bella]

Still not as many as mtw2 for the map size! theres 1 in scotland ffs and 1 in england !!!

There's actually about 7 or 8. Regions contain capitals and settlements now. ie - London is the capital. Oxford is a settlement.

[TheMantis]

Yeah, and you need to read the ing news. We are in an economic crisis. The turnover in the game industry is at a rate of knots already (company mergers, disbandings, bankruptcies) and when you factor in the economic crisis then things start to take a lot more vulnerable look.

So in short, Sega is not invincible, and CA are caught between a rock (Sega) and a hard place (fans - or in this instance). Believe it or not, Sega doesn't give a toss about the quality of the game as long as the profit margin remains. That is why games like Transformers or anything based on film fanchises get made. Direct your ire at Sega, not at CA.

Also, I'm yet to encounter any game breakers - just small tweaks that I overall agree with, and some I don't.

LOL, are you seriously using the economic downturn as an excuse for a game studio to produce shoddy products? That's like saying that I should expect to get half a patty on my McDonald's burger sometimes because there's an economic downturn and, well, sometimes you just can't get what you paid for. That's absolutely loving ridiculous. Once again, it's people like you that enable people like CA to release buggy, unfinished products over and over again because you just eat it up and write off major gameplay bugs as "small tweaks". Read a few posts above mine and you'll see a guy talking about how a bunch of Indians sat still while his troops shot them to pieces. You think that's a small tweak? There have been a flood of reports stating that the AI instantly becomes retarded in any fort situation if the user takes advantage of a built-in option to increase the amount of men in a unit. A small tweak? Are you serious? Because you sure look serious. And if so, you need to reevaluate your basic logic processes, because you tripped up somewhere.

CA is the developer and SEGA is the publisher, so yes, I do blame CA more than I blame SEGA. When there are monumentally bad bugs in a game, I expect the developer to bug test for them and consequentially eliminate them. If there are minor bugs in a game, that's fine. For example, if the AI accidentally paid 3/4 the regular amount of money for units on Very hard Hard instead of the normal 1/2 (this is hypothetical, mind you), then I can understand that. But having an AI that is completely unable to function in a myriad of COMMON situations is mindbendingly stupid. Anyone defending it will likely use logic that falls in that same category, because there is no defense for releasing something with that bad of a bug.

[Hunter Makoy]

my rant is i'm so ing sick and tired of seeing posts from someone who has some 800GTS or something that wasn't even top notch 2 years ago and sits here complaining about how "dudez i get some lag when I play on Ultra! Down with CA!"

[mgmr]

LOL, are you seriously using the economic downturn as an excuse for a game studio to produce shoddy products? That's like saying that I should expect to get half a patty on my McDonald's burger sometimes because there's an economic downturn and, well, sometimes you just can't get what you paid for. That's absolutely loving ridiculous. Once again, it's people like you that enable people like CA to release buggy, unfinished products over and over again because you just eat it up and write off major gameplay bugs as "small tweaks". Read a few posts above mine and you'll see a guy talking about how a bunch of Indians sat still while his troops shot them to pieces. You think that's a small tweak? There have been a flood of reports stating that the AI instantly becomes retarded in any fort situation if the user takes advantage of a built-in option to increase the amount of men in a unit. A small tweak? Are you serious? Because you sure look serious. And if so, you need to reevaluate your basic logic processes, because you tripped up somewhere.

CA is the developer and SEGA is the publisher, so yes, I do blame CA more than I blame SEGA. When there are monumentally bad bugs in a game, I expect the developer to bug test for them and consequentially eliminate them. If there are minor bugs in a game, that's fine. For example, if the AI accidentally paid 3/4 the regular amount of money for units on Very hard Hard instead of the normal 1/2 (this is hypothetical, mind you), then I can understand that. But having an AI that is completely unable to function in a myriad of COMMON situations is mindbendingly stupid. Anyone defending it will likely use logic that falls in that same category, because there is no defense for releasing something with that bad of a bug.

Yeah, good analogy.
I think I'd like to add this though:
burger patty cost vs. manufacture of ETW
McDonalds net worth vs. Sega net worth
Oh, suddenly it's an absolutely clinically retarded example.

Of course you expect the developer to bug test. And I'm saying that if you had any idea of how the industry works you'd know
a. how much this game could have sucked and how much bug testing it would have taken to get to the stage it's at and
b. every dev would love to bug test for months and months. They can't - because of publishers. I don't think you understand a business relationship - especially with video game publishers.

Also, I've been playing for around 12 hours now and I've only ever once encountered a bug you're describing and it wasn't an issue. Either you have hell bad luck or I have very good luck.

And paying 3/4 on VH isn't a bug unless stated by the developer. So you couldn't fix that either. It's a baseless example.
I want you to think about the sheer number of units, statistics, battle field pathing features, ranges, altitude takes, environment effect stats that need to be taken in and then add in AI and a game this complex and large and it will always contain bugs. I could defend in a siege battle in Med2 with 1 unit of French archers and a calvalry unit - defeating a full stack of Danish vikings by microing like crazy, and also the fact that the Danish didn't pick up a ram once attacked a first time. I wasn't crying - I just counted myself lucky that the game existed.

Oh, and people like me allowing them to produce this? I'm by no means giving them an easy call. Read my crits - they're fair and extensive. The AI does have the occasional hiccup. However, I'm not blowing this all out of realistic proportion in one hypersensitive, histrionic, psychotic melodrama. It seems you're just upset about the fact that it was released like this.

In that case, don't play it.

Simple. When the patch or mod comes out to the extent that you're happy with, then treat that as a release date and start playing. I'm happy to play a product with minor flaws at this stage. Logically (let's not trip now), this works, because the game wouldn't have been "ready" until this stage anyway. So wait for that patch or that mod. And if you want to argue that "it shouldn't have been released.. etc etc" then give us simpletons a break, because we actually like the game. Conversely, if you want to blame them for time, blame Sega and human fallibility. Because all you're doing is raging.

[Krom]

Yeah, good analogy.
I think I'd like to add this though:
burger patty cost vs. manufacture of ETW
McDonalds net worth vs. Sega net worth
Oh, suddenly it's an absolutely clinically retarded example.

Of course you expect the developer to bug test. And I'm saying that if you had any idea of how the industry works you'd know
a. how much this game could have sucked and how much bug testing it would have taken to get to the stage it's at and
b. every dev would love to bug test for months and months. They can't - because of publishers. I don't think you understand a business relationship - especially with video game publishers.

Also, I've been playing for around 12 hours now and I've only ever once encountered a bug you're describing and it wasn't an issue. Either you have hell bad luck or I have very good luck.

And paying 3/4 on VH isn't a bug unless stated by the developer. So you couldn't fix that either. It's a baseless example.
I want you to think about the sheer number of units, statistics, battle field pathing features, ranges, altitude takes, environment effect stats that need to be taken in and then add in AI and a game this complex and large and it will always contain bugs. I could defend in a siege battle in Med2 with 1 unit of French archers and a calvalry unit - defeating a full stack of Danish vikings by microing like crazy, and also the fact that the Danish didn't pick up a ram once attacked a first time. I wasn't crying - I just counted myself lucky that the game existed.

Oh, and people like me allowing them to produce this? I'm by no means giving them an easy call. Read my crits - they're fair and extensive. The AI does have the occasional hiccup. However, I'm not blowing this all out of realistic proportion in one hypersensitive, histrionic, psychotic melodrama. It seems you're just upset about the fact that it was released like this.

In that case, don't play it.

Simple. When the patch or mod comes out to the extent that you're happy with, then treat that as a release date and start playing. I'm happy to play a product with minor flaws at this stage. Logically (let's not trip now), this works, because the game wouldn't have been "ready" until this stage anyway. So wait for that patch or that mod. And if you want to argue that "it shouldn't have been released.. etc etc" then give us simpletons a break, because we actually like the game. Conversely, if you want to blame them for time, blame Sega and human fallibility. Because all you're doing is raging.

Amen.

[Lionel-Richie]

Yeah M2TW was totally playable, especially during sieges when the AI would try to fit its entire army up one ladder and permanently drop your FPS to 1.

Or how the AI would just stand there and let you shoot them...or the family tree breaking...etc etc etc

[CaptainRedCoat]

Heh, if I was a game dev, I would actually read these comments and then work on the problems the game has instead of quitting. That'd be actually smart

Well, no I'd be pretty glad I made a bloody awesome game, half the things you have groaned at can and will be fixed by modding so shhhhhhhhh

[Pushbutton]

Are there issues with ETW? Certainly, but I still think it is a fantastic game. Now maybe it because I have a PC that allows me not to worry about if something can run or not so I have had 0 compatibility issues like many have, but common people, it is a PC game. In todays work we have been babied by consoles into thinking that everything works on anything. No company can test its game on every single setup, there are just too many now with too many variations. Compatability issues on lauch are a part of modern PC gaming, get used to it or get back to the silly Xbox.

As for the game itself. I think it was beautifully presented. It looks fantastic, the campaign map actually feels alive now, and the armies... while similar... are correct for the period. Honestly, have you ever looked at anything reguarding warfare durring this period? Armies were nearly carbon copies of each other because those units worked. What was different was the tactics used. If you want a good AI battle stop playing on easy and normal, the AI is useless on all TW games in those modes, set it to VH and it gets far far better imo. Will mods make it better? Of course. Mods make EVERY TW game better. Vanilla to vanilla tho, this is my favorite.

Sorry if this came off as ranting. I just got off a 6 hour ETW session and loved every second of it.

[Cadmium77]

I'm a long time TW fan, since STW and when I saw they were "building an entirely new engine" and that it still just had the same 20 max units per side for this kind of warfare I said "that's it no more".

I've had it with CA and their game. Evidently they saw that they had a cash cow and the original creativity and striking uniqueness of STW has been lost ot the corporate pursuit of mass market profits.

This game needed something like 150 units per side in battle mode. It needed a seriously improved and more authentic strategy map with a more realistic mode of moving armies around and keeping them in supply. All that has been ignored and the old system has been kept.

You're going to get some pretty pictures out of ETW and you'd better enjoy them because that's all you're going to get. Forget any recreation of real strategy and tactics.

Pass me the flaming pigs and screaming miniskirt babes with the Phrygian caps please. CA has screwed the pooch again.

Sad.

[Clansman117]

My only problems with the game so far is that they didn't make it easy to be some of the other factions, one crash to desktop bug and it goes slow (but thats because of my processor, so I don't count it).

[Culhwch]

I can play AOC on full res, but Empire lags.

And when i built large navy's and was ready to set them to sail, i went to harbor, clicked on ships and ctd. Sloops and brigs where find but the latest big ships i ctd each time.

And saw a few times, my advancing army fullstack gets attacked by 1 or 2 units while approaching a city, ofcourse i win, then the army in the town who didnt fight just runs off.

[The_Dude]

This game needed something like 150 units per side in battle mode.

yeah, and the people that buy the game would need a Cray to run it ...

It needed a seriously improved and more authentic strategy map with a more realistic mode of moving armies around and keeping them in supply. All that has been ignored and the old system has been kept.

authentic ? its a game ffs, its supposed to be enjoyable. when i fire it up it dont wanna sit there for 2h, micromanaging supply lines just so i can besiege one town ...

[Ightenhill]

Its got s few rough edges (but a geme this complex will have)

Its got some annoying graphical bugs that should not have slipt through beta (DOF, dodgy AA)

Its actually however better than I was expecting.. Im very impressed and I say that very very few times when it comes to games software these days...

[Juggernaut]

I'm a long time TW fan, since STW and when I saw they were "building an entirely new engine" and that it still just had the same 20 max units per side for this kind of warfare I said "that's it no more".

I've had it with CA and their game. Evidently they saw that they had a cash cow and the original creativity and striking uniqueness of STW has been lost ot the corporate pursuit of mass market profits.

This game needed something like 150 units per side in battle mode. It needed a seriously improved and more authentic strategy map with a more realistic mode of moving armies around and keeping them in supply. All that has been ignored and the old system has been kept.

You're going to get some pretty pictures out of ETW and you'd better enjoy them because that's all you're going to get. Forget any recreation of real strategy and tactics.

Why is it evident that "they saw that they had a cash cow" and "original creativity and striking uniqueness of STW has been lost ot the corporate pursuit of mass market profits" is lost merely because the game didn't go to a direction you wished? You are making a giant leap of logic here. And 150 units? WTF? Do you seriously theres a PC in this world that can run that?

Pass me the flaming pigs and screaming miniskirt babes with the Phrygian caps please. CA has screwed the pooch again.

Sorry to ruin your parade, but I don't think there are any fantasy units this time.

You know, I'm also a TW player from the time of Shogun, and I'm greatly enjoying ETW. Does that make me somehow less intelligent than you? Do I become a blind fanboi?