Simple Trade Guide

[Hardrada992]

At this point I'm almost certain that this is a bug. Try moving your ships off the node and then back on it, that seems to have worked for some people.
There was supposed to be a patch out this week that fixed a trade node issue, but I don't remember seeing steam update Empires, so I either missed it or the patch has not come out yet.

[The-Tribune]

Thx Hardrada992 yes it must be a bug! as I can access the info on the ships but can not move them or join them.

[twisterdark]

I can figure a bug that make me Land Trade with Persia with every faction. With Maratha or with Venice (o.O) I can Land trade with Persia even though I've no regions near them linked to my capital XD

Anyway is a "fake" trade, because you can start this tarde but it won't appear on your commercial stats, because of (of course) your capitals are not linked yet^^

[MadFrancis]

So I know how to set up trade routes, simple enough really. I am looking for actual details of how importing and exporting actual trade goods work, and specifically how trade ports (and the number of trade ports) effect trade goods.

For example: how does having multiple trade ports in one region effect that region, in both regions with exportable trade goods, such as the Bahamas or Cuba, and in regions without, such as Britain or Ireland.

How does the "export capacity increase" bonus (from trade ports) effect trade capacity (regionaly and\or globally)?

Does it produce more trade goods for you to sell?

Are you limited to a certain amount of the total volume of exported goods?

What exactly is the function of that bonus.

For example: I have two sugar plantations (Bahamas and Jamaica) at the 25 level of production, but I am bringing in 62 units. I realize that the stated level of yield for that plantation effects the actual number, but do the number of trade ports (in your region? theatre? capital province? whole empire?) effect how much you can produce and\or export and\or import?

I guess I'm mostly looking for info on how trade ports effect your export capacity (as it vaguely implies it does).

Also, how is the wealth of a trade port determined? How can you improve the rating? Do the number of trade ports you are trading from in your empire (or region or theatre) affect the prosperity of all trade ports?

[MadFrancis]

Okay I was looking at numbers. Theoretically the lost income (from town wealth) from over taxing your upper classes is more than made up for by the tax rate itself on your other sources of income. Even dropping a 3000 town wealth province to a town wealth of zero is only roughly a 700 gold loss in taxes by the time town wealth hits nil. The significantly higher taxes on your trade, ports, industry, farming and mining income should be able to more than make up for that loss. Losing 10% taxation of 3000 town wealth (even if that number is growing by 50 points a turn) is more than covered by taxing everything else at 30%, at least within the reasonable scope of the game's timescale. Sure if your game lasted 1000 turns it might not be worth it, but it won't, and the miniscule increases to a miniscule part of your taxable income does not justify losing roughly 25% taxation on all your other (much more considerable) incomes.

As far as I can see, for most profitable provinces town wealth is around 10-20% of your regional economy. In provinces that have less industry, mining and farming it can be as much as 30% of your regional economy. These are rough estimates, but should be fairly accurate from the sampling of regions that I conducted.

Example (numbers have been rounded off to provide my brain with easy math): Berlin has 10,000 total regional wealth. 3000 of that is roughly 31ish% of the total economy (I chose a low industrial, farming, mining region to show the upper extremes). I can tax that region at 10% (5% for lower class growth if I have undeveloped towns in any of my regions that I want to develop, and 5% upper class to try and increase my regional total wealth) for 1,000 gold. Or I can tax everything but town wealth (let's just say that Town Wealth dropped from 3000 to 0 in a turn) at 30% (5% lower classes, 25% upper classes) and earn 2,100 gold. That's more than double your previous income! Assuming you are adding something around 50 points per turn to town wealth with 5% upper class taxation, that is a .5% increase to your total town wealth per turn at a cost of 1,100 gold per turn. Within the scope of this game, those numbers are NOT worth it ... ever.

And averaged out over your entire empire these numbers are actually more skewed towards town wealth growth being absolutely pointless to this game and your empire's growth and income as a whole. With 20% more taxation of all of your Empire's trade and mining and industry and farming the loss of town wealth becomes less and less important. You can invest in newer technologies faster to boost your non town wealth incomes sooner. You can higher armies faster and take over your neighbors sooner. Setting low taxation for upper classes is like handicapping yourself intentionally because the game is too easy otherwise.

Okay.

Someone please tell me I am wrong. Why would CA create a mode of taxation that was completely worthless. The increases to town wealth (for lowered upper class taxation) and the taxes reaped from that portion is such a minscule part of your economy that it only benefits you from keeping taxes on upper classes as high as possible as allowed by unrest levels.

God how annoying if true. I don't want it to be true ... someone tell me that town wealth is actually meaningful to this game in any sort of way. Show me how keeping your upper class taxation rates low actually aids your game. Please ...

anyone ...

[coman]

Dude, are you seriously copying and pasting your questions into multiple threads? Tacky!

[MadFrancis]

Dude, are you seriously copying and pasting your questions into multiple threads? Tacky!

I've only posted my trade and taxation questions in the trade threads. So far none of them have actually adressed details of how the economy works. I saw four trade guides and not one of them dealt with specifics. If asking trade related questions in trade guide threads is tacky, oh well. I would like answers or at least to open up discussion about this.

If posting it in all four trade guide threads is tacky, then so is having four trade guides ....

In anycase, maybe instead of letting me know how tacky it is to ask the same questions of different people, maybe you could respond to the actually question. Nothing wrong with going to multiple sources for answers.


Sheesh, some people are so uptight ...

[coman]

I'm so far from uptight. I should have instead applauded you and appointed rep for actually USING THE SEARCH TOOL. Clearly you have mad computer skills. Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V and you know how to use a search function.

Your questions are answered and your observations are correct.

[MadFrancis]

Your questions are answered and your observations are correct.

GAAAH! ... no I don't want to be correct! You were suppose to tell me I was so wrong and that town wealth is ACTUALLY worthwhile ... now Mad is sad

[MadFrancis]

I'm so far from uptight. I should have instead applauded you and appointed rep for actually USING THE SEARCH TOOL. Clearly you have mad computer skills. Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V and you know how to use a search function.

Actually I'm not even that skilled, I didn't even use a search function. I just posted in the four stickied trade guides. Maybe only one of them should be stickied if we are not to actually ask question in all of the stickied Economy Guide threads.

[jouno53]

Thanks for this guide, it answers a few questions I've had about trading and trade theaters.

Simple, easy to follow, and straight-forward, great job!

[Roberticvs]

I haven't seen any discussion of supply and demand yet. I've been looking at the trade screen and have been keeping track of prices (up top next to icon for each commodity). Since I wanted to corner the sugar market (following history here) I'm curious how supply and demand affects prices.

More directly, should I be building up ALL of my sugar plantations, or do I want to limit production and (thus) keep the price high? Has anyone noticed a pattern?

Fun game so far. Waiting for the patch. I wish the manual was more explicit on trade.

[Frederf]

I've only seen prices dip once and not by much. You would really really really have to spam a good before the price drops more than the increased volume justifies. Every time I play the little arrows next to the good prices are always up and green.

[Laza_Car]

They are trade ports, I triple checked and all three are Commercial Basin types. I just took over Spain and the port they had isn't trading either.

I have the same problem playing as USA. I've googled around, but I can't find any answers. This makes a problem because I can't trade with my European... erm, "colonies", and I have Venice, Lombardy and Genoa there. There's just 0 trade with Eurpoe on my trade window. Also, some ports in America don't trade, and some trade just with each other and not the rest (as presented on the attached picture).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've tried everything, making and braking trade agreements, destroying ports and building them again, raising the number of my indiamans on trade spots, and so on... I'm guessing it's a bug. Or am I wrong? Help?

[Frederf]

The upper part of the trade tab is supply. It just means there's no goods coming from Europe to your capital on the influx side of things. Your exports half looks normal.

[Hardrada992]

Yeah, your foreign trade looks like its working fine, although those two ports only trading with each other is hilarious and must be a bug. Try posting that pic on the technical help page somewhere and see what others have to say.

The reason Europe is blank on the top part of the trade income is because Europe doesn't produce any trade goods, so it doesn't add to the amount of goods you can trade with.

[Laza_Car]

Yeah, it makes sense when you think about it!

Hmmm... I'm gonna try to change my capital to Rome, than there should be some trade routes coming to Rome from my "now-colonies" from America, right? Gona see how it works out and if it changes anything...

Does changing of the capital city influense anything else?



... and yes, those two ports are hillarious! I'm gonna build all ports to the maximmum level to see if I'm getting any new routes. Will report back. Thanks!



EDIT: Well, I'm a long-time fan of TW games, but I didn't notice that you can't change the capital in this one. Or I can't find the option... does this mean that fractions that have their capital on European soil have a slight advantage towards those that have their capitals in America or India? What I mean is that those (European) fractions trade on 3 continents (trading theaters excluded), and all the rest non-european nations trade only on two (considering that Euroepe doesn't have tradeable goods). That has to be an advantage, right? Yes, Europe would only import in that case, but it must add to the global trade...

I'm not sure exactly if anything that I said makes sense at this point.

[RepublicOfClones]

(considering that Euroepe doesn't have tradeable goods). That has to be an advantage, right? Yes, Europe would only import in that case, but it must add to the global trade...

Europe has tradeable goods. Furs and cotton are producable in europe. That is why sweden was one of the poster boys of the trade bug. Because they had a tradeable resource in their home theater (sweden has furs in the upper north of the sweden region. Ottomans can build cotton plantations all over their territories) Europe just has very little of them. That is why it is infinitely more lucruative to go conquering overseas.

Btw why is it that the AI seems to prioritize sugar plantations over every other type of plantation? Should I do the same? Sugar plantations seem to be more upgradable (thus more lucruative) compared to coffee plantations. Or should I still build the coffee for variety and hopes that I don't overload the world with sugar. Seeing only sugar plantations is boring, having coffee plantations help alliviate this problem.

[Laza_Car]

Europe has tradeable goods. Furs and cotton are producable in europe. That is why sweden was one of the poster boys of the trade bug. Because they had a tradeable resource in their home theater (sweden has furs in the upper north of the sweden region. Ottomans can build cotton plantations all over their territories) Europe just has very little of them. That is why it is infinitely more lucruative to go conquering overseas.

Btw why is it that the AI seems to prioritize sugar plantations over every other type of plantation? Should I do the same? Sugar plantations seem to be more upgradable (thus more lucruative) compared to coffee plantations. Or should I still build the coffee for variety and hopes that I don't overload the world with sugar. Seeing only sugar plantations is boring, having coffee plantations help alliviate this problem.

I ment most of the Europe, and those parts that I have now. By the way, I conquered France and it just looks stupid not having any trade routes coming to Frances ports... no activity whatsoever. Meh...



Price of tradeable goods seems to follow the rules of offer and demand. In my game ivory was the most expansive good, I filled Madagascar with indiaman and the price fell down and it's now lower than tobbaco... so, just try to balance everything with a slight tendation to more expansive goods.


One more question... considering that my ports in Europe don't do anythng, should I just destroy tham and build fisherman ports in place of those trade ports?

[Aerrol]

Is there any quick and easy way to view locations on your trade routes being raided? For whatever reason, as Britain, my American trade is labelled as being cut off, despite there being no ships (as far as I can tell) on ANY of my trade lanes... So either it's bugged, or there's some tiny portion of the lane not visible (i.e. covered by the fog of war) that I haven't noticed...

Thanks!

EDIT: Well, upon reloading my campaign, it would appear that my North American trade is working again... but I would still appreciate being able to quickly find the locations my trade lanes are being raided.