Suggestions and requests

[CaesarVincens]

I doubt that we would ever see Greek settlement in Nomadic lands the same way you would see Galatian settlements in Egypt or the Seleucid Empire.

[Silver Legionary]

That's true, maybe they should get better Greek AoR units, like Thureophoroi, and maybe Phalangites, to
represent their use of non-nomadic infantry?

[CaesarVincens]

Like I said to Kara Kolyo, find us some sources and we can work from there.

[Zarax]

I'm still not 100% convinced about the thracians colonies.
While it's true that there were some thracian settlements both for the ptolemies and seleucids this doesn't mean that they were employed in their native fashion, which is the prerequisite for colonies.

EB for example tells us that they were integrated into existing units like the phalanx and promodroi.
When they were used in native style it was as mercenaries rather than regulars.

IMHO what we could do is to give thracian mercs into a few more areas and maybe extend the thracian AOR to bythinia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bythinia

[Kara Kolyo]

If you don't want to go ahead with colonies, then making them available as mercs in Antiochia, Alexandria and Seleucia for example would be another option? I agree about Bythinia.
The book i posted suggests however that the thracian settlers in TSE more probably fought in their fashion rather than as part of the core troops.
Still the decision to change or not the thracians is for the mod team, i just mad a suggestion

[LucretiusTC]

About those Thracian mercenaries, I think they could be recruitable from Bithynia and Mysia as well.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Bithynia
"According to ancient authors, the Bithynians were an immigrant Thracian tribe."
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Mysia
"Strabo was of opinion that they came originally from Thrace, and were a branch of the same people as the Mysians or Moesians who dwelt on the Danube."
http://www.ancientlibrary.com/gazetteer/0237.html
"Mysia was settled by Moesi from Thrace, some time before the siege of Troy"

Besides those immigrants there were other old connections like Thracians and Phrygians of Asia Minor had some common gods like Sabazios, the nomadic horseman and sky father god.

Luc.

[Anakarsis]

One about map

I recently had the idea of dividing the settlements among the Greeks Cities and the Independent Hellenic States depending on which side they took towards Rome. Some city-states were openly hostiles while others were helpful from the beggining and many passed to Roman sovereignity even without blood. This concept may include some oddities, like passing Massilia to the Greek Cities, but it seems to me like a good historical approach. What do you think?

[Zarax]

GCS is supposed to represent the chremonidean league, which is represented by the cities listen in the faction.

[Anakarsis]

Yes, just checked it, i see.

Do you know until what date endured that alliance?

[Zarax]

261.

[Silver Legionary]

@Caesar: I wouldn't know what sources to look for on
nomads using Greeks or natives as infantry auxiliaries,
all I know is that the Saka Rauka(nomads) get Indo-Greek units
after a reform in EB.

[Suppanut]

Saka Rauka is Eastern Sakae that become indo-scythian in India. Sakae and Tocharian play role in destruction of Greeco-Bactrian Kingdom in Bactria and rule on the top of the structure that greek king left off. They are surely use greek soldier as infantry in battle as Bactria is loaded with hellenic people but have nothing to do with kingdom of Scythia in Europe except for ethno-linguistic connection.

On Scythian in europe, it is true that they under process of hellenization but they didn't use greek soldier in battle, most of their infantry are scythian that become settle farmers and their usual mercenary(if they want to use) are Bastarnae or Thracian. Something that closest to your expectation are the Bosporan which are hellenistic state with a lot of settle scythian as subject. Bosporan scythian are the ones who fight in hellenic style of infantry.

[Silver Legionary]

Ah, I forgot about the Bosphorans. That makes more a lot sense than what
I said.

Anyway, I don't think I would have the best ideas for colonies, maybe
LucretiusTC could come up with something. I would probably agree with
whatever he thinks of then.


On that note, about the wonders, what should the Romans get...?
Maybe something to simulate their transition from Republic to Empire?
Maybe a change in the recruitment system, post-Marius? I dunno.

[Anakarsis]

European Scythians has nothing to do with the Saka-Rauka and the founders of the Kushan empire, ok, but what about giving the Sythian player the chance to alternatively expand to the east and get similar troops there?

[Shadow_LT]

I think you should give barbarian heavy cavalry and bodyguards a sword as secondary weapon. It has always bugged me that they are only heavy cavalry, which don't have a secondary weapon. In EB Celtic heavies have longsword, so maybe you could give them longswords or if that would be historically inaccurate, regular swords would suffice.

[Anakarsis]

Thracian colonies indeed existed, but since you want to give every faction ONE type of military colony i dunno if the Thracians are the best choice to Seleucids and Ptolemies. Both used thracians fighting in the thracian way, but these men never represented more than 1/10 on the forces.

Also, BE CAREFUL about the origins of thracian colonies in Asia Minor. Take into account that the thracians are one of the eldest recognizable groups, and that they were around since the last period of the bronze age (about a milennia before the start of the RTW); many of these groups migrated, or more precisely shared cultural development, with groups in Asia Minor. Some of these "colonies" were migrations or developments that actually predated the beggining of the greek classical age and the foundation of the Persion Empire. I dont´know exactly when the Bithinians became the owners of their region, but the first noted Bythinian King is at least one generation before Phillip of Macedon.

[Zarax]

We settled down for having some thracian AOR in Bythinia, thracian colonies are reserved for macedon.
Seleucids and ptolemies gets galatians instead, which were much more of a regular merc unit for them.

[Anakarsis]

AS you wish
However, Bithynia should have some good units to recruit. I was really surprissed recently with the stories of battles of that small country

[Zarax]

Wait Anakarsis, it doesn't work "as I wish".
Given thracian colonization I gave Bythinia some thracian AOR but if you think it's not historical we're more than ready to listen.

What do you suggest?

[Anakarsis]

Hey. didn´t mean any offense.....do you see now? my english is not that good!

i meaned "AS you prefer", is a matter of choice, simply. Yours was a choice as good as any that i can suggest.

(In Spanish, "As you prefer" is literally "Como prefieras" and "As you wish" is "Como quieras", now, we normally use "como quieras" in the sense that english use "as you prefer", i simly confuse it because i was thinking in spanish)