Suggestions and requests

[Zarax]

All of that is good, but the only thing I disagree with is
the Heavy Phalangites only having around 7 armor.

It is a pretty high armour rating, only a handful of infantry units (all of them lvl5) gets higher than that.
Also, take into account that they will get a better 2nd weapon lethality than similar units (due to them being armed with longswords) so you're going to face a pretty good unit even out of phalanx.

Other than that, I highly agree with the Persian Heavies getting a buff to
being close to Hetairoi stats.

They represent the seleucid "agema" cavalry, basically a companion unit recruited from the persian nobility.

That reminds me, will Iphicratean Hoplites have higher lethalities, as their
pikes are shorter, so they can thrust harder?

Iphicratean spears should be halfway between hoplite and phalangite in lethality.

I didn't quote your stats because I'm developing a system from which all units will take their values, part of it is available in the latest release EDU.

[Silver Legionary]

That's great, I'll take a look.

Also, I didn't know that the Heavy Phalangites
would get longswords; now I don't care that
their armor isn't higher than 7!

[Zarax]

It's the same unit as EB so expect it to perform in a similar way.

[Silver Legionary]

What about the Seleucid Argyraspid Thorakitai? Should they have only
12 armor? In EB they have, like 18-19. Also, it's said
in their description they are armored like cataphracts,
and how much armor do cataphracts have?

Historically, also, they were very heavily armored, as they were part of the
reorganized Argyraspid corps, and thus could afford the heavy armor required.
They were usually equipped like normal Thorakites, but some used longswords,
like the other Hypaspists.

[CaesarVincens]

I'm not sure how EB does their stat system, but twelve armor, plus four shield, plus thirteen defense skill makes 39 total defense. Adding their good attack and morale and the rest makes a nice unit.

[Silver Legionary]

They have 5 def. skill in 3.3.5 XC. What version is yours?
Mine definitely do NOT have 13 def. skill in mine. Lol, that would be
AWESOME.

[CaesarVincens]

Right, well I may have to put out 3.3.6... :

[Zarax]

CV was looking at the new stats and those indeed are the ones he said.
Also, comparing stats directly between mods is generally not a good ideas as we've got different balancing systems.

In XC 12 armour is the equivalent of a walking kataphract, having 20% more protection than a muscled cuirass (10) and being almost double than chain mail (7).
Anyway, the new stats system should be ready soon for testing and you'll be able to see their performance in action.

@CV: I'd say 3.4 would be better as we could break saves and include faction swaps plus the new ptolemaic infantry recruitment system.

[CaesarVincens]

CV was looking at the new stats and those indeed are the ones he said.
Also, comparing stats directly between mods is generally not a good ideas as we've got different balancing systems.

In XC 12 armour is the equivalent of a walking kataphract, having 20% more protection than a muscled cuirass (10) and being almost double than chain mail (7).
Anyway, the new stats system should be ready soon for testing and you'll be able to see their performance in action.

@CV: I'd say 3.4 would be better as we could break saves and include faction swaps plus the new ptolemaic infantry recruitment system.

As Zarax says, comparing between mods is something that requires advanced math to be accurate, a simple comparison doesn't cut it. Zarax is doing an excellent job of balancing every unit and making different factions behave differently on the battlefield.

Zarax, at this point, I think I'd just rather go with 4.0.0 alpha or beta. Having 3.4 would be effectively the same thing, but I'll think about it more. There is another feature we've discussed before that I'm working on. Let's just say it has the potential to be wonderful.

[Silver Legionary]

Wait, what? Faction swaps? Like, in provincial campaigns, right?

Anyway, this new unit balancing system sounds interesting.
What does it do to cavalry? I might fix the test EDU
Zarax just put up, balance the cavalry(based on what you say,
of course), and use that instead of my current one.

EDIT: Nvm, I see the system in the new test EDU. I'll just apply it
to the cavalry.

[Zarax]

Faction swaps as in changing the internal names, it's a long term project aimed to fully exploit the BI exe.

Rebalancing didn't touch cavalry yet but if you're willing to test you can check if there are mismatchings between cavarly armour values and the ingame skin.
At the start of the file there is a list of the armours used in the game with according armour ratings, infantry has been double checked already.

BTW, that EDU is senate only

[Silver Legionary]

I think I'll do that, I don't want to wait for the next release to
have AWESOME stats.
About the cavalry, how would I change their attack values, if
I wanted to be using the system?
The armor stuff sounds easy.


For example, since Legionary and Praetorian Cavalry
are wearing the same armor as foot legionaries,
just give them 8, right?


Most barbarians(except elites) would get 0, right?
Also, about generals, why only 8 morale? They rout too quickly for me...

[Zarax]

As I said in the other thread, I'm still figuring out cavalry stats.
Barbarian cavalry would get armour according to the skin, quick examples:

- celtic/german light cav: 0
- thracian light cav: 3 (helmet)
- iberian light cav: 4/5 (breastplate, don't remember the helmet)
Also, generals haven't been touched yet as they are mostly cavalry...

[Silver Legionary]

Say, I thought of the Post-Marian Project after I got the reforms in my recent
Roman Campaign and got new, reform-related ancillaries, and I just thought of asking:

What happened to that, and if it's been implemented, will it be expanded upon?

[Zarax]

Well, you can call XC an ongoing implementation of the post marian project.

Unit-wise we're getting there with some changes along the way, traits and ancillaries are taken care of by Suppanut.
BTW, have you had a chance to try the complete rebalance EDU?

[Kara Kolyo]

Don't know if i should post this here,but - Playing as Bactria all my fighting FM very quickly start to loose their bodyguards due to traits. Fighting TSE they gain traits like victor, victor in Asia etc. So normally my generals have units of 13-15 men (i play with large unit scale). I understand the need to make them easier to assassinate when they become popular, but probably there should be some counter measures to keep the amount of men in the unit. When a leader became famous for his success, more men would come to join him to get some loot and fame. What do you think?

[Silver Legionary]

Actually, Zarax, I noticed that the Parthians were swapped with the Huns in the
new descr_sm_factions; but that was after I found out that the Parthians were still
"parthia" in the new EDU...
At least, that's how I remember it.

Anyway, it would be a lot easier for me if there was a no-senate
balanced EDU, would you be able to do that?
I say that because I would do custom battles for sure, but I
have some good campaigns going, like a Roman one in 204 B.C.,
and I don't want to unbalance them right away.

[Zarax]

The test EDU is based on 3.3.5, the swap is a separate test.

I can try making a non-senate EDU but that will take a few days.

[Silver Legionary]

Hmm, I can wait for an awesome EDU.
BTW, why are German Hearth Troops listed as "unused?"

Also, I saw a text entry for Gallic "Council Guards", when
will those be put in?

[Zarax]

German Heart troops are being reviewed for historical accuracy as they look a bit too late for our timeframe.
The council guards have been discarded due to model issues.