Suggestions and requests

[CaesarVincens]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

RedFox,
I would like to give XC a more unique identity compared to XGM, and a changed battle system is one of doing that. The new XGM battle system, which I'm currently going with has some of the features you mention, though given in a different manner. And I'll think about some of the other stuff too. I do hope to have a more balanced and unique gameplay experience.

ME, moving the forum is up to Dime and other moderators, I can't pick where it is. I'll put up a download thread soon though.

[Stilgar CG]

CV, link in download section does not work for me, I'm afraid. But the old one in the thread worked fine . From a marketing point of view, would be nice to see in download section a few lines that gives in a nutshell the most important changes XC introduces to main XGM play (slower, more challenging from that or that perspective, etc.), not just list of modifications. (I'm sure you'll update download section with info; just my 0.02 cent again ).

I would also love to see some modifications in unit recruitment system. I have a list of possible measures. I'll come back with a few thoughts. Hopefully, that will initiate a discussion of the issue.

[CaesarVincens]

I'll see what I can do about a description. And I would like to switch up things a little as far as rosters go, but I need to think more about it first, and right now school is taking up most of my time. But please, share your ideas, you might find them included.

[Zarax]

About rosters: I'll try to dig myself in Redfox's Diadochi and see what is useable for us in XC, from the screenshots I saw a few promising models.

[CaesarVincens]

Thanks, Zarax.

[Zarax]

BTW, I'm still not enthusiastic about the new battle system, it just doesn't fill right to me.
I'd rather take a new direction (EB provides a quite good base imho) and experiment with alternatives as multiple hitpoints makes things way harder to balance.

[RedFox]

I'll try to dig myself in Redfox's Diadochi and see what is useable for us in XC

Make sure you give proper credits though. But I doubt they will fit XC, because Diadochi has its own unique style, different to XGM.

[CaesarVincens]

Don't worry, I do my absolute best to give credit where it is due. But I too think that the unit style is probably to different for most of the units.

[Zarax]

Make sure you give proper credits though. But I doubt they will fit XC, because Diadochi has its own unique style, different to XGM.

Redfox, proper crediting should be beyond doubt, I said what was said only because you offered us the availability of your work before.

[RedFox]

Yes, I did, otherwise I would've not liked the 'digging around' statement at all. I just wanted to make sure Maraxus gets his fair share of the rep, since the poor man is loaded with work and barely gets enough rep as it is. He really has helped a lot with DiadochiTW artwork, I just added that final polish.

On a side note, I hope XC will not be using the new multi HP battle system, since it greatly unbalances missile units. Cavalry will be pretty much immune to archers, which is very wrong. And a volley of javelins that used to cut down overzealous cavalry rushing in now barely does anything. I tried a similar system with multiple HP on xgmD half a year ago and I didn't like what I was seeing.

I am still adamant about introducing high defense skill values, which makes flanking with infantry more rewarding than before. I'm fairly positive that the DTW combat system will provide a better experience than a multi HP system. Afterall, the whole system is based to deliver reasonable paced battles with maximum carnage and it really hasn't failed to deliver so far... You might want to try and acctually play the mod instead of taking a look around the files too see something useful - then you will know what I mean.

[CaesarVincens]

I need to take another look at both systems (DTW and XGM 2hp), but, honestly, between school and ETW, I'm not feeling like it.
I know DTW has a great battle system, I'm just not familiar with it, and I know that the entire unit system is different from what I'm using right now, meaning it would be no small change. But that's not to say I'm not open to looking. I'm always looking to improve this mod.

[Spartan198]

I just wanted to make sure Maraxus gets his fair share of the rep, since the poor man is loaded with work and barely gets enough rep as it is. He really has helped a lot with DiadochiTW artwork, I just added that final polish.

I'll have to go give him some general "good job, buddy" rep, then.

[Suppanut]

I have some idea to propose.

Current AI bonus is too much depend on one capital. I would like to proposed new method of AI bonus by made bonus depend on capital(or capitals if they historically have many) 40% and other several core regions(represent tax base and manpower, Italian Paninsular for rome, North Africa for carthage, Niles Valley for egypt, etc.) about 60%. This could be done by create building called hinterland_core_regions which give place via starting campaign script and give give bonus based on hidden resource and factions(to save building slots). This will made blitzing less likely powerful as you must conquered their whole core area to cripple them completely.

[CaesarVincens]

I saw that idea also. I'll consider it. That would really work only for a few factions though, but it could set up some good places to conquer also.

[Suppanut]

There could be many combination for it such as

- Macedon has only 1 and centralize capital which made blitz hurt them greatly.
- Seleucid have 2 capital which made capture one not hurt much.
- Germans is extremely decentralized, no virtual capital at all, to stop them is something like conquered all germania.

I also think about something reverse too. Like in player campaign if roman lost Rome or punic lost carthage will made whole factions suffer from unrest and seperatists due to lost government seat by give +10 unrest, -10 law to each government building but give bonus -10 unrest, +10 law factionwide in Rome for roman or in Carthage for punic.

[CaesarVincens]

Those are good ideas. I think I shall definitely add a "player unrest" factor.

If someone could come up with a list of important economic or other cities for different factions, that would enormously helpful.

[Webba]

Just a quick comment about battle systems. If you're looking for ideas I was very impressed with the FATW and Viking Invasion 2 systems. You might want to take a look.

[CaesarVincens]

I do have a rather limited view on battle systems, to tell the truth. XGM is the only I have any real familiarity with.

[Zarax]

So, what do you think of trying to restore missile accuracy with shorter range as XC solution for battle systems?
If that works we could then moving on rebalancing units, even though it will take lots of time...

[Suppanut]

I heard you would like to use 1 hp system and tweak missile range. How about this solution.

- Level of firpower/range(with is reduce range as many people think archer is too overpower)
-->javelin(damage 8-9/range 40)ap
-->heavy javelin(damage 10-13/range 30)ap
-->pilum(damage 12-15/range 25)ap
-->sling(damage 5/range 90)ap
-->elite sling(damage 7/range 90)ap
-->kestros(damage 7/range 90)ap
-->generic foot archer-west(damage 7 /range 80)(skirmish)
-->elite foot archer-west(damage 8/range 100)(bombard)
-->generic foot archer-east(damage 8/range 100)(bombard)
-->Indian longbow(damage 9/range 120)(bombard)
-->elite foot archer-east(Composite bow)(damage 10/range 120)(bombard)
-->generic HA(damage 8/range 80)(aimed and fire)
-->elite HA(damage 9/range 100)(aimed and fire)

Here is about missile accuracy. Now its up to tactic they use with their weapons.
- Set projectile accuracy(fewer mean more accurated, 0 = always hit)(need test)
-->generic bombard-type archer = 0.15(elite west and most of east foot archer)
-->generic skirmish-type archer = 0.1(generic west with shorter range and easier to aim)
-->horse-archer = 0.1(aim before fire but how much you would expect from horseback)
-->hunter/famous archer = 0.05(snipe and fire!)
-->javelin = 0.1
-->heavy javelin = 0.1
-->pilum = 0.1
-->slinger = 0.15
-->kestros = 0.05
-->Crossbow bolt = 0.05

- Archer will stronger in the east of Mediterranean and even more if for each step further east.
- Increase quiver size of
-->all foot archers from 25 to 30 in the west and 40 in the east
-->all slinger from 30 to 35
-->kestros from 25 to 30

All of these idea are for making eastern archer stronger than the west and down its power to made them not overpower like other people expected.

Here is other ideas which would easy to try if you like to.
- All units will have 1 HP except elephants, Berserkers, Spartan Royal Guard(without additional HP would made them not worth 30 turn recruitment), and general(to prevent quick dying and allow battlescarred traits to workable.).
- All HA will get higher penalty in scrub area(which also include and settlement area).
- All Barbarian archer will have high forest terrain bonus but All archer and cavalry from east(except india which seem normal in forest) beyond Mediterranean will have huge penalty in it.
- All heavy infantry and cavalry will subject more to heat and sand than lighter units especially if they come from the west.
- Cavalry charging distance lowered to decrease the chance of cavalry charge fail.
- Most of generic/civics/heavy infantry/nonhorse-culture heavy cavalry units will be "hardy" while most of light infantry/light cavalry/horse-culture heavy cavalry/ultra-training elite will be "very_hardy". Base on SunTzu, light units use for fight Maneuveur warfare and could play its roles.
- All other barbarian units without special formation should have loose formations as an option.
- Increase defense skill drastically(+10 to based value) for both infantry and cavalry, making flanking attacks more effective for infantry.
- increace shield attribute of each shield to here.
--> small round 5
--> medium round 7
--> large round 9(-1 defense skill)
--> Thureos 8
--> long shield 10(-2 defense skill)
--> scutum/oval 9
--> square scutum 12(-4 defense skill)

Would you like to test and use some of ideas which I post here (which selection from "Battle system of Post-Marian Project" thread)? If you willingly to use them, please tell me about outcome of implements the feature ideas too.