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Thread: What do you think of the EU?

  1. #1

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    I'm mostly interested in responses from those members living in the European Union. As an American, I'm very interested in this concept of regional government. Is the nation-state on the decline? Is this a precursor to world government? I've read about both sides of the debate, mostly articles from the UK. Any comments from EU citizens would be appreciated.

  2. #2

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    Bureaucracy hellhole.

  3. #3

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    Although I drift somewhere between eurosceptic/europhile, I do not like the appearance that Americans seem to look at Europe as one country. We are not, every member of the EU is still sovereign, and there is not one european that wont be slightly offended to be generalised as a European.

  4. #4
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    Originally posted by Ferrets54@Apr 17 2005, 10:54 PM
    Although I drift somewhere between eurosceptic/europhile, I do not like the appearance that Americans seem to look at Europe as one country. We are not, every member of the EU is still sovereign, and there is not one european that wont be slightly offended to be generalised as a European.
    Really? I met one in Vienna last year.

  5. #5

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    Originally posted by Scrappy Jenks@Apr 18 2005, 12:58 AM
    Really? I met one in Vienna last year.
    Count him with a - whoever the ****** the Austrians dislike and I think he'll prefer to be called an Austrian.

  6. #6
    Primicerius
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    europe will never be one country, mostly due to the culture barrier. and i also have never met a european who thought a single european nation was a good idea (except hitler, but i didnt know him personally so he doesnt count)

  7. #7
    Protector Domesticus
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    From what i've been able to tell, the EU is a more modern "European" version of the concept the Founding Fathers used when they wrote up the Articles of Confederation and then switched over to the Constitution, so in a unique way, at least at the bedrock foundational level, it's very similar to the system of the US with a few variations here and there because of social and cultural differences across the Atlantic. I wouldn't say it's a sign of the decline of the nation state as much as it is as a precursor for the nation state's next evolution, which if the EU is succesful will be that of multinational blocs.

  8. #8

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    Originally posted by Richard@Apr 18 2005, 08:10 AM
    europe will never be one country, mostly due to the culture barrier. and i also have never met a european who thought a single european nation was a good idea.
    I think you're wrong there. Of course, many people are reluctant to be considered as Europeans. Yet, weren't there cultural differences in each of the regions now united as one country? For example, the customs in France (especially food related) are different between the North and the South. However, few people would now claim to belong to a region before his country. I assume it may be the same in most of the European countries. It will take time to unite all the Europeans together and make them think of Europe as a whole nation and not a mere accumulation of countries.

    every member of the EU is still sovereign
    Perhaps the UK still is sovereign in a way (economically at least), but it is no longer true for most of the members of the UE who have adopted the unique currency. You should also not forget that each member cannot create any law that would be contradictory to the UE's. So yes you're sovereign, but only until the EU doesn't consider it's acting agaisnt its policy.
    "... the first design of speech was to persuade others; either to give credit to what the speaking person would have them believe; or else to act or suffer such things, as he would compel them to act or suffer, if they are entirely in his power." Mandeville (1670-1733)

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  9. #9

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    Love the EU, is quite the lovely thing to be able to galavant about Europe with my Irish Passport! As with anything, there are positives and negatives, but I think for the most part the EU is a good thing, after some tweaking, and further development, could prove very good for all countries involved.

  10. #10

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    Personally I don't like to idea of giving so much power to a load of foreigners in Brussles. The EU is good for things like equality and trade and don't get me wrong I'm all for equality, thats why I let my female staff work longer hours, so they can earn as much as the men :grin but things are starting to go a bit too far with this constitution lark. At this rate we'll all be ponsing about in berets anytime now.

    Being serious though, a major issue is with nations fearful of losing their national identities especialy the old colonial powers having such rich histories. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the general feeling in France against the EU constitution? I think it was the last time I heard anything about it, it's definately the general feeling here in Britain. So basicly in my opinion when France has their referendum on the EU constitution if they don't kill it then Britain certainly will(hopefully) giving the EU less power.

  11. #11
    Dan_Grr's Avatar Dan the Man
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    First, I consider myself portuguese. And second, European. Im sure most european fellows will agree with me. Yes, its good to be part of a union, we have but one coin. But our country comes first.

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  12. #12

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    Originally posted by Ldvs@Apr 18 2005, 03:15 AM


    Perhaps the UK still is sovereign in a way (economically at least), but it is no longer true for most of the members of the UE who have adopted the unique currency. You should also not forget that each member cannot create any law that would be contradictory to the UE's. So yes you're sovereign, but only until the EU doesn't consider it's acting agaisnt its policy.
    All member states are sovereign, since all member states can choose to leave the EU.

  13. #13
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    personally i like it in its present form but i dont think id like to see it gain more of a central power role like washington is to the american states. although it has been a very good thing for most europeans it has funded alot of infratructure work in ireland and helped us start the celtic tiger.

    personally the one thing i dont like about it is the new eu army which is being touched upon i think it will remove our nuetrality.

    From the great Gales of Ireland
    Are the men that God made mad,
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    And all their songs are sad.
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  14. #14

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    I think i consider myself almost as european as french.
    Europe is our future, it permits economic growth and secures peace.
    Of course, there are things i dislike, especially the European Comission which members are chosen and not elected. There is also a problem about EU's frontiers: shall we accept Turkey?
    If we do, then why not Morroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Russia?
    If think a country is european only if he has greek/roman past and culture and is christian; otherwise he can't join.
    The EU is efficient on an economic point of view; politically, there are two groups of countries: the ones which want further political integration (mostly Germany/France) and others who just want a free trade zone (UK/eastern Europe). I think we need a common army and foreign policy. If not, we shall improve bilateral cooperation, just like we do with Britain about navy and Germany (aeronautics, Eurocorp).

  15. #15

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    Originally posted by mickalos@Apr 18 2005, 10:50 AM
    Being serious though, a major issue is with nations fearful of losing their national identities especialy the old colonial powers having such rich histories. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the general feeling in France against the EU constitution?
    Actually it is not really a major concern. The main point is that we fear we'll lose this "welfare state" with the liberalization of the services. We still have a relatively good healthcare system and many people believe it will turn into something similar to that of the UK and USA, which are notoriously mediocre (no offense meant). Most of the fears are related to the fact that the state will no longer provide the benefits it used to.
    Anyway, even though the vote passed here, I doubt it would in the UK as you rightly pointed out.

    All member states are sovereign, since all member states can choose to leave the EU.
    The UK certainly could, since you don't have adopted the European currency, but I doubt any sane man in the countries that have adopted it would consider leaving the UE. It is now practically impossible considering how the European economies are entangled.
    "... the first design of speech was to persuade others; either to give credit to what the speaking person would have them believe; or else to act or suffer such things, as he would compel them to act or suffer, if they are entirely in his power." Mandeville (1670-1733)

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  16. #16

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    In France people will answer to the referendum that never took place: "Do you want the eastern Europe countries to enter the EU?"
    The answer will be no i am afraid.

  17. #17
    Cliomhdubh's Avatar Campidoctor
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    or the irish referendum on niece- we said no so they done the referendum again although they said it was because of a low voting rate the first time around

    From the great Gales of Ireland
    Are the men that God made mad,
    For all their wars are merry,
    And all their songs are sad.
    G. K. Chesterton

  18. #18

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    Originally posted by nicoviard@Apr 18 2005, 05:45 AM
    I think i consider myself almost as european as french.
    Europe is our future, it permits economic growth and secures peace.
    Of course, there are things i dislike, especially the European Comission which members are chosen and not elected. There is also a problem about EU's frontiers: shall we accept Turkey?
    If we do, then why not Morroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Russia?
    If think a country is european only if he has greek/roman past and culture and is christian; otherwise he can't join.
    And so what about say Nordic countries or Baltic which, to my knowledge, have nothing to do with either roman or greek in the past?

    Apparently you do not consider these nations part of europe... Or Ireland... I think no roman ever set foot there ?

    Furthermore, definition christian... How do you define christian country? Majority must be christians? How about atheists? Or different christian sects?


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  19. #19
    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    EU might be a good idea, but personally I would have hoped for a looser economic union, not so much a federation-type. Also, the EU is politically quite fragile at the moment. The greatest achievement of European Parliament so far has been that the majority agreed to disagree with a nomination for an office [can't remember who or for what]. Also, the small countries have next to no say, and I see an inner-EU and outer-EU forming, with the Inner-Eu (France, Germany, Britain, etc) formulating the policies to suit their interests as large member states, while the outer-EU (Finland, Sweden, Baltic countries, etc) are left in the cold and the interests of smaller countries are largely ignored.

    Also, I am worried by the apathy and the lack of interest of the people toward the EU. Most people I know have very little knowledge of the EU (including myself) and couldn't really care less. The bureaucratic language of EU politics is hard enough to de-cypher by people who are interested in the EU. Only about a third of the population usually participates in EU elections. This is worrying.

    Being serious though, a major issue is with nations fearful of losing their national identities especialy the old colonial powers having such rich histories. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the general feeling in France against the EU constitution?
    Are you saying that countries with a non-colonial past don't have rich histories? :huh
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

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  20. #20
    Sulla's Avatar Sulla
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    EU might be a good idea, but personally I would have hoped for a looser economic union, not so much a federation-type.
    Actually I've noticed you've written this in a number of threads. Why? Are you more or less against a federal style republic with a European people, a European army or defence force and countries which become more like states of the federal republic of Europe.

    Is this just a pipe dream. But I always remember that the formation of the United States of America faced similar resistance and even in Australia Federation was seen by some as a disaster. If all worked out. Of course the obvious difference is the greater cultural diversity and old tensions that have been present in Europe for centuries. We also can't forget that the US and Australia really were just a bunch of colonies rather than entrenched nation states. I'm hoping this can be overcome but having recently moved to Denmark I do notice that national identity is very important to European people. This can't easily be removed.

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