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Thread: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

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    Amenbat's Avatar Suzuki
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    Default Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Just copying and pasting what I found, I've never heard or read about such battle that seems to been a tremendous shame to the British Army in the battle for Indians Cartagena's (Spain) Port.

    The British invasion fleet was one of the largest in history, numbering 186 vessels (the Spanish Armada, in 1588 had 126 vessels), including ships of the line , frigates, fireships, and transports, with a total complement of 23,600 combatants and some 2,000 cannons. To counter this, Blas de Lezo had at his disposal just 3,000 regular soldiers, 600 Indian archers, and the crews and troops of six ships of the line: the flagship Galicia and the ships San Felipe, San Carlos, Africa Dragón and Conquistador. Edward Vernon was pretty sure of the victory, and news were sent to London that Cartagena had been conquered even before the battle had started. Yet Blas de Lezo's tactics took Vernon by surprise. Blas de Lezo ordered all his vessels be sunk, thus blocking the port. A pit was dug around the city walls, in order to prevent a direct assault. Trenches were displayed in zig-zag, in order to avoid the effect of cannon fire. Two soldiers were sent to the English camp, feinting surrender, providing the assailants with false information about the Spanish positions. At night, the Spanish army charged by surprise, using bayonnets, forcing the English army to retreat, despite the fact that they were heavily outnumbered

    When the news that Cartagena hadn't been conquered reached London, and that the invading fleet had been humiliated by a much inferior force, king George II tried to avoid the truth from being printed

  2. #2
    Seigen
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Yep its true

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    Markas's Avatar Child of Nihil.
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=230048

    Already a thread about it. Have a mod take it to the V.V you'll get a decent discussion there.

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    jimkatalanos's Avatar Nerevarine
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Moved to the VV.
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    Alhamar's Avatar Shisai
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Just because our british friends tried to hide the sounded defeat doesnt make it false.

    Blezo was a hard man.



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    Markas's Avatar Child of Nihil.
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhamar View Post
    Just because our british friends tried to hide the sounded defeat doesnt make it false.

    Blezo was a hard man.



    Nice day.
    Who, might I ask, has 'tried to hide it'? I keep asking spanish posters about this and they shiver and stall and resort to cheap insults. I'm sure you'll oblige me with some answers.

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    Alhamar's Avatar Shisai
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    The king hide the printed coins and told to hide the defeat, i wasnt refering to the british now or the british historians but about at the time when the battle happened. I wanst insulting u you and i do not respond about what other people do just because they are spanish as you would understand.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...gena_de_Indias look in the aftermath.

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    Markas's Avatar Child of Nihil.
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhamar View Post
    The king hide the printed coins and told to hide the defeat, i wasnt refering to the british now or the british historians but about at the time when the battle happened. I wanst insulting u you and i do not respond about what other people do just because they are spanish as you would understand.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...gena_de_Indias look in the aftermath.

    Nice day.
    The coin thing was just Hubris. The hushing up of bad news is nothing new in warfare, and as the Walpole government collapsed the news evidently wasn't suppressed very well. The battle is less well known in Britain for two reasons -firstly it was a battle in a war as part of a bigger war (The war of the Austrian succession) and secondly it wasn't against the traditional enemy, France. If it had been doom-sayers would have been thronging the streets screaming about imminant french invasion, as so often seemed to happen.

    Thankyou for replying, btw.

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    ShADoW's Avatar Equites
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    The defeat in itself is pretty embarrassing.

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    Seigen
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    I heard king George tried to get the presses from not releasing the news...

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    Markas's Avatar Child of Nihil.
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Quote Originally Posted by Blas de Lezo y Olavarrieta View Post
    I heard king George tried to get the presses from not releasing the news...
    I don't think it was his call. Ever hear of the RMS Lancastria? It was the single biggest loss in British maritime history. The morale in wartime Britain would have sunk (if you'll excuse the pun), but there was nothing. The reason? Churchill had ordered a news black-out. Only recently has there been any recognition of it.

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    Belisaire_'s Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    It was just a siege, nobody was really defeated or winner. Victory or defeat it's only for battle not siege.

  13. #13
    Seigen
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    It was still pretty amazing thou

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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaire_ View Post
    It was just a siege, nobody was really defeated or winner. Victory or defeat it's only for battle not siege.
    "Just a siege" how silly to see on it like that, it was a fantastic spanish victory, It's just to accept it.

    Victors are declared in sieges as well you know.

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    Amenbat's Avatar Suzuki
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Dind't mean to put salt in an old scar. ha!

    But it's nice to see people arguing about history for once.

    If that Blezo was really as tough as the sources I've read claim him to be... what an amazing man.


    So long.

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    Belisaire_'s Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Quote Originally Posted by arkeologen View Post

    Victors are declared in sieges as well you know.
    Nope.

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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Then how do you call it???????
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    Amenbat's Avatar Suzuki
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Quote Originally Posted by gaius valerius View Post
    Then how do you call it???????
    Vernon called it "Resupply time"

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    Belisaire_'s Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Quote Originally Posted by gaius valerius View Post
    Then how do you call it???????
    When it's a failure, a siege lifted.

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    Default Re: Is it true the British defeat at Cartagena in 1741? Vernon vs. Blezo

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaire_ View Post
    Nope.
    Of course the Spanish were the victors, clearly, dealing much damage to the british and completed their "objective" while the british failed to, just accept it.

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