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Thread: Campaign difficulty

  1. #1
    Daeger's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Campaign difficulty

    So I have a simple question about the campaign map.

    The question is: what the fuuuuuuu?

    Look at this pic

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Im playing as hungary, I have the third largest country, I have trade rights to almost every nation in the world except HRE, Venice and byzantium, which all attacked me collectively after I clicked the end turn button for the second time in this campaign. I've conquered constantinople and all my cities give me 2000+ income, I think that's pretty cool. Constantinople on the other hands makes 3900 gold per turn and castles around 1000.

    You'd think you could support a lot more army with 12 good provinces than the byzantine could with 4 castles and cities? No.. My military is the 5th weakest in the world, I can barely support 4 stacks with 6 knight units per stack while the venice can support -9- full stacks full of knights each with just 7 provinces? Byzantine have twice larger army than I do with about 6 provinces.

    Seriously, what the hell is this? Is this supposed to be challenging or is this supposed to make you feel like a friggin idiot by giving the AI insane amounts of free money and make you suck ass compared to everything else?

    I tried to play as Scotland too, I conquered all of british isles and I had trade rights to every nation except norway, which was excommunicated and at war with half of Europe and when I moved half of my army, which consisted of 3 stacks, to norway, I was rather shocked when I noticed that Norway, with THREE absolutely crappy and worthless provinces had THREE FULL KNIGHT STACKS?? WTF? That's just god damn stupid, irrational and unrealistic bullcrap. Who the heck came up with this?

    Im just so frustrated because this mod is seriously the best mod out there if you disregard this retarded way crank up the difficulty, but it just ruins the whole thing.

    Is there a way to just.. remove the whole damn piece of money script?
    Last edited by Daeger; February 28, 2009 at 04:47 AM.


  2. #2
    Koljan's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    So, wait, you just wanna win the game?
    Just add money to yourself to balance things out.

    Are you building stuff while you are trying to maximize your army?

    Do you use many mercs or have many fleets?

    what difficulty are you playing on?

    Also, the garrison script can be responsible for alot of the "spare" soldiers, as far as I know, AI cant disband units, thus getting him stuck with alot of soldiers he cant afford and crashing his economy.

  3. #3
    Daeger's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    Quote Originally Posted by Koljan View Post
    So, wait, you just wanna win the game?
    Just add money to yourself to balance things out.

    Are you building stuff while you are trying to maximize your army?

    Do you use many mercs or have many fleets?

    what difficulty are you playing on?

    Also, the garrison script can be responsible for alot of the "spare" soldiers, as far as I know, AI cant disband units, thus getting him stuck with alot of soldiers he cant afford and crashing his economy.
    The main problem with this is, that the ai attacks those who are weaker than they. This means Im getting every nation next to my borders attacking me because they get money out of nowhere and they can build armies so big that I just can't compete and that just sucks.

    I don't wanna conquer every nation next to me just to stop them from attacking me, I don't even wanna win the campaign by conquering the whole europe, I just like managing the country and fight when I have to/I want to and not because every neighbor want's conquer me even tho they have much better targets next to them. I like to "go with the flow" and see where things go.

    Why would Byzantine attack me when they have someone like turks next to them? Turks always attack byzantines so it's just... so unrealistic.. Why would Venice attack me when they have so much easier targets like milan next to them?

    It's just impossible to try not to fight a war if the AI refuses to make peace after losing 90% of their whole country, just because I have statistcally weaker army.

    This money script causes never ending wars and that the main problem here.

    I don't use mercs as a long term part of the armies, I only hire them when I need them. I currently have as much army as I can possible have without losing all the income, I make 1500 gold each turn because of this. It's just impossible to have a full stack of knights per province like the AI has.

    Now that you mentioned the garrison script, I think that's the one causing this. I haven't seen anyone sieging the venetians tho.. they have 7 provinces and 8 full stacks so that means the money script also causes this.

    Edit: Btw, venetians declared a war on me instantly in the beginning of the campaign and they haven't attacked me a single time after that and still after 60 turns they refuse ceasefire offers.

    Playing on VH/VH

    Edit2: Oh great, now poland and mongolians declared war on me. This is awesome. Getting the whole world against me.
    Also I remembered I don't have garrison script at all in the current game so the money script must be the source of this insane full stackery.
    Last edited by Daeger; February 28, 2009 at 08:26 AM.


  4. #4
    Koljan's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    are you playing 3.8?
    I mean, I'm doing Spain vh/vh, so far i kicked moors out of peninsula, portugal only has it's 2 starting settlements and I just ceasefired with france after taking Pampalona, zaragosa and the other seaside city next to them.
    At the same time took Rennes from the english (both were excomunicated) and took little island from Moors.

    If I can manage this on VH/VH, I dont see why anyone else shouldn't - I'm no that great of a player.

  5. #5
    THARN's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    try H/Vh or even Med /VH to make it more realistic for you- this keeps the AI with tough, well equipped units but allows for more diplomacy and economy is a bit easier.
    On the Campaign map the other factions wont be as aggressive as on VH.
    I play on H/H myself as I have found it to be more suitable. And I don't win every time, nor do I expect to.
    What did you think it would be like on VH/VH anyway? Any type of game I've ever played on on max difficulty was just brutal.
    swallow your pride and change your difficulty settings. Thats what I did.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    On another note: Your game looks a little buggy, especially the faction symbols. How long has it been like this? Try reinstalling the game and make sure you have the display fix. I recommend shifting down to H/VH. On VH the AI is going to get more money and is going to be more aggressive. Also, the three stacks may have been remnants from the height of their empire, if they have been reduced to 3 regions and are at war with everyone. I will also explain the scripts so you understand how it works.

    Money Script: Every turn the AI will get bonus money to help it out. The money is calculated based on campaign difficulty and the number of regions the AI has.
    Debt Script: This script is only activated when the AI goes into the red. It gives the AI enough money each turn to keep its treasury balanced. In extreme circumstances, it will allow the AI to pay for the upkeep of some uber stacks if they become isolated from their enemies.
    Garrison Script: Pretty obvious. If you attack an AI's capital or very important city (for example Bologna for the HRE has a g-script, while not the capital), the AI will recieve a decent sized garrison to help defend the city. This makes the game much harder and keeps small nations afloat in the beginning, instead of being steamrolled by the large factions. The garrison script will deduct the money it takes to recruit the units from the AI's treasury as well, so it is not a freebie entirely.

    I suggest playing with the garrison script on, and moving down from Very Hard to Hard on the campaign difficulty. This will lower the money script, and make factions slightly less aggressive towards you. Finally, try getting your bugs sorted out. I suggest trying the display fix if you already haven't, and if that doesn't work, uninstall KGCM completely and start from the beginning, intalling 3.0 then 3.8. The fresh install will kill most bugs.

  7. #7
    Daeger's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    Humm.. I would reinstall the mod if I could but I reinstalled my windows and thus lost the registry stuff of mtw2 so.. I can't install the mod without it.

    I guess I'll try out the medium difficulty, but I've always played on VH/VH regardless of mod. I guess I'll have to make an exception here.

    I don't really like the garrison script because like.. every other city has the spawning garrisons and that's just annoying, I think it should only be enabled in capitals and the major cities/castles.


  8. #8

    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    Uninstalling KGCM wont touch any of your M2TW files. Just go to the KGCM folder and do the unistall app. It will only touch stuff inside the KGCM folder, nothing else.

    In 3.8, Dave made VH campaign difficulty more aggressive that in the past, which will contribute to what you saw

    The garrison script is only in capitals and key cities. I suggest you at least try it out and see for yourself. It basically is what you said you would want a script to look like. Try it out and you will be pleasantly suprised I think

  9. #9
    Daeger's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    Yes, But I can't install the KGCM again because the installer can't detect kingdoms since it's not in the registry. I can't really reinstall the game either because the second dvd is a little damaged.

    I tried the garrison script in my Scotland campaign and I found it annoying when half of the cities in Ireland had the garrison thingy and when england declared war on wales, they sieged their cities and lost all the time and thus, created a huge army for the welsh which was also annoying when I was attacked by the welsh.
    Last edited by Daeger; March 01, 2009 at 02:32 AM.


  10. #10
    Koljan's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    download an ISO of the Gold edition if you have the original and use the original CD key to install.

  11. #11
    Daeger's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    Im going to play this campaign to the end before I'll try the medium difficulty. I noticed something.. well not really anything new, but even more ridiculous than before. Look at this picture

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Don't you think this script needs a LITTLE tweaking if a nation with 6 poor provinces has almost 20 full stacks? Those are mostly knights too so it's just.. stupid lol.. thank god those bastards aren't near my borders.

    I noticed that all the other nations now have a quite normal military, although I should be able to field much more army than anyone else since I now control Constantinople and Venice which are the richest cities in the world, but I have about the third largest military at the moment and Im getting like.. 8k per turn. I think I have numerically the largest army, but AI has nothing but knights -.-

    Anyways, Teutonic Order is one of the smallest countries, yet they have the most powerful and largest army in the whole world. 6 provinces.. six..

    It's interesting to watch how the other countries are developing, english, welsh, scots and irish have fought since the beginning of the game against each other and england was finally defeated just couple turns ago. Norway has expanded a lot and France is controlling most of the western europe. This is exactly why I love this mod + XAI. The games develop everytime in a completely new way, it's just that... those ridiculously huge armies are so.. so .. lame.. :hmmm:

    Notice the Byzantines now? They still refuse ceasefire offers even though they're getting raped by the turks. I don't really bother conquering them because they keep the turks busy. I can focus warring elsewhere.

    Foul language has been removed from this post. I warn you that if this thread continues to descend further into a rant I will close it permanently. Also can you be clear about whether you are playing with an unmodded version of my work or not? You seem to be saying you play KGCM with XAI correct?
    Last edited by Dave Scarface; March 02, 2009 at 06:37 AM.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    Based on the tone and nature of his opening post he should have been shut down immediately.

  13. #13
    Daeger's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    Do you, Grislok, have a problem with my temper or what? I just brought up this little annoying problem I have noticed ages ago, sorry for my "colorful" language and ranting, it's just happens to be so that I do rant a lot when Im pissed and I often regret my ranting afterwards. You have my sincerest apologies.

    I admit I ranted in my previous post a "little" too much and I deserve the warning. I really do have anger management problems in real life and I did not mean to rant in my last post.

    Now to the topic. Im using XAI beta AI and 3.8 KGCM. The Faction symbols started bugging after I changed to Vista from Windows XP. The Game works fine otherwise.

    The Medium difficulty settings makes the game much, much better. I still think the very hard -difficulty could use a little tweaking, because those stacks really are insane.


  14. #14
    Koljan's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    My occupation of half of europe with Spain begs to differ.

    Yes there are ALOT of stacks, but if you employ tactics in addition to strategy,
    It IS possible to not only defeat them, but be fighting on more then one front against such foes.

    I am by far not the best of Players on these forums,
    but in the screenshot attached you can see my Empire of Castille, as i call it.
    This game is VH / VH.
    I've never been excommunicated, Portugal has 2 cities and 2 stacks and never expanded past that.
    the remaining 2 moorish settlements are 99% christian.
    I am allied only to Denmark, and am at war with Milan currently.

    Here are the golden rules:

    1. Never get excommunicated.
    2. Only get allies you dont mind having to dump later of they get exco'd
    3. When seeking war, never target someone with allies, never target someone who's not already in a war.
    4.Try taking as many settlements in one turn in the first turn of the war.
    5. Any ceasefire MUST have a price: A settlement or a very long-term and fat tribute.
    6. Some factions are better left crippled* rather then destroyed to serve as a buffer.
    7. An alliance triangle can only end bad for you. never engage in one.
    If engaged in one, try dragging one into war against another asap. Make sure you leave the deal with an ally and not up against 2 ex-allies.
    8. If your target is Catholic, try excomunicating it first.
    If geographically possible, drag it to war with the pope.

    * Crippled: Take France in my spanish map as an example. It's in war with denmark, HRE and England. I allow them to live because it gives me that much more safety from a conflict not I intiated.

    I will conclude by mentioning that I dont think the final version of 3.8 uses XAI and I am not using the beta.

    Peaceful evening
    Koljan

  15. #15

    Default Re: Campaign difficulty

    @Daeger,

    Now that you have calmed down (thank you), I will take the time to reply to your original post. Firstly let me deal with that first picture you posted. The reason that the mod is not displaying properly for you is likely that the patch did not install properly on your Windows Vista. What you need to do is point the path of the patch installer to someplace else other than the SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\kingdoms_grand_campaign_mod folder. Now "copy and paste" all of the patch files across into the SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\kingdoms_grand_campaign_mod folder (instead of attempting to install it to their).

    The difficulty levels of this mod are geared towards the total war veterans of this gaming community. This is not to say though that anyone who finds this mod too hard is not a good player. But I designed this mod to be hard because this is what a lot of people (me included) wanted from a TW game. The original game was great but a little too easy to hold peoples interest for long. Thats why so many people turned to mods or became modders themselves (like me) this is the first mod I ever created. Anyway one of the things I did was make a lot of the recruitment costs more expensive and realistic. Also I tweaked the income levels of settlements so that they did not provide too much income to make the game very easy. The intention of these changes was to make it harder for human players to field multiple armies at any one time. And it would be harder to train as many "elite" units into your armies. I believe ETW will be similar in that it is very hard to have lots of armies at once. Meanwhile the AI gets a boost to its income each turn. This together with Lusteds CAI which builds up and attacks with full stacks makes the game extremely challenging. Finally my unit recruitment settings make the AI build the best units available to them. The Grand Campaign in my mod on VH/VH is so much tougher than the vanilla game. And it is also without doubt one of the toughest mods available.

    The CAI is a lot less likely to gang up on you playing medium settings as you have discovered. Diplomacy also works better because your relations do not drop quickly with everybody. And the AI has a smaller invade priority against the human player on this level. Very Hard difficulty is for the players who are too hard for the AI to beat. We can never make the basic AI of this game good enough to beat a good player. Regardless of what AI mod you use, I hope you understand that. XAI is an excellent mod and does work very differently to the CAI that comes with my mod. The reason I decided not to incorporate XCAI into KGCM in my last patch is because it just did not suit my mod. The AI in XCAI expands at a frightening rate. That is better in a mod where many settlements on the map start off rebel. But on a campaign map such as mine where every Kingdom starts off neighbouring another. This ends up meaning many factions get defeated very early on. And this I feel does not suit the pace of my campaign. I prefer Lusteds CAI in my mod because it builds its forces up slower (but very well). Factions do not race to war but war builds up gradually. Using XAI is going to have a big effect on the campaign as everything works totally different, including diplomacy. You must decide what AI you prefer.

    Now to move on to an explanation for why a small faction can afford many armies we need to turn to the AI money script again. How it worked in the mod before was that each AI faction would get a certain amount of money for every settlement it owned each turn. While this mean't that "the bigger the faction the more armies it would have" and the smaller the faction the less armies". There was a serious problem with this script. The AI could not see how much income it could get next turn. The money was scripted to appear instead each turn. This completely dumbfounded the AI, suddenly it got say 10k from nowhere and as a result would spend it all. This would mean crippling upkeep costs would eventually bring all production to a staggering halt. The AI economy is a very serious issue as it effects each factions performance. One of my modding friends pointed out to me that it would be a far better idea to increase the Kings purse by use of a script instead of give the AI X amount of money for each settlement each turn. As a result of using the Kings purse instead, the AI can see how much money it will gain next turn. It can see the money cheat and spend its income far better. This does not mean that the AI can never get in debt now. If it is at peace and does not fight for too long its growing armies will send it into debt. You have to understand that the AI has no sense. It is programmed into a certain way of thinking like "I need to train more men each turn". It will not disband armies when there is no longer any need for them like you and I. Anyway this is why factions can sometimes build up so many armies. And as said the best remedy for this problem is war! Which VH/VH difficulty with Lusteds CAI ususally provides. The AI faction that wins grows and grows and so will its economy.

    Dave
    Last edited by Dave Scarface; March 02, 2009 at 03:32 PM.

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