View Poll Results: What title to apply to Carthaginian entities on the map

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  • Phoenician

    40 40.40%
  • Punic

    31 31.31%
  • Carthaginian?

    28 28.28%
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Thread: Name for the Carthaginians

  1. #1
    Opifex
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    Default Name for the Carthaginians

    Hi folks,

    As the beta testers have been reporting, the beta has some Carthaginian being called "Phoenician" (e.g. Phoenician general), and some being called Punic (e.g. Punic watchtower). It seems that I myself was a big inconsistent when giving these names to it. Which of the two would you prefer to be applied across the whole faction? (Perhaps you'll prefer 'Carthaginian' instead?!)

    PS: No matter what, the faction itself will always be called "Carthage". The reason I gave to some of their objects a 'Phoenician' title was to give a wider sense of whom they belonged to as a cultural entity.
    Last edited by SigniferOne; February 23, 2009 at 09:04 AM.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  2. #2

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Hi folks,

    As the beta testers have been reporting, the beta has some Carthaginian being called "Phoenician" (e.g. Phoenician general), and some being called Punic (e.g. Punic watchtower). It seems that I myself was a big inconsistent when giving these names to it. Which of the two would you prefer to be applied across the whole faction? (Perhaps you'll prefer 'Carthaginian' instead?!)

    PS: No matter what, the faction itself will always be called "Carthage". The reason I gave to some of their objects a 'Phoenician' title was to give a wider sense of whom they belonged to as a cultural entity.
    name all Phoenicains !!! hahaha wow, I would appriciate that

    No, seriosly. I would keep it "inconsistent". To keep the mod more interesting and varios. I noticed that too. I liked it. (of course I liked it ^^ )And in those days empires always consisted of a countless number of individual persons, states and whatever who never called themselves Chartagians, or so. Maybe then were called so from others ...

    Take for excample the "Phoenicians" who never considered themselves named so. But as citizens of a certain town.
    Last edited by phoen!x; February 23, 2009 at 09:25 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    But keep in mind that it's not my job to represent Phoenicians as they considered themselves. I don't really care too much about that. What I want to represent is them as they are to the modern observer.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  4. #4

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    But keep in mind that it's not my job to represent Phoenicians as they considered themselves. I don't really care too much about that. What I want to represent is them as they are to the modern observer.
    ok, that would kill the Punic. Since they were only called this way by the Romans

    And "Phoenicians" would be too rough ... and they would be more settled in Israel/Syria, ... I guess

    In spite I d prefer Punic !
    It s more authentic than "Charthagians".
    Last edited by phoen!x; February 23, 2009 at 02:03 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Quote Originally Posted by phoen!x View Post
    ok, that would kill the Punic. Since they were only called this way by the Romans

    And "Phoenicians" would be too rough ... and they would be more settled in Israel/Syria, ... I guess

    In spite I d prefer Punic !
    It s more sophisticated than "Charthagians".
    Nevertheless, that's precisely 'phoenician' is in contention: to show that their culture extended far beyond their current borders, that in a way there was more here than met the eye.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  6. #6

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    well that would be good for single generals or objects. But it would cause confusion when every Chartagian general is a Phoenician ... ? And the rest is called 'Chartagian'.
    Last edited by phoen!x; February 23, 2009 at 10:47 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Voted for Phoenicians.
    Punic was the term used by Romans only as phoen!x stated and Carthaginians would remind too much of vanilla RTW.
    *has another idea*
    What about calling them generally Qart'Hadastim as in EB? Since the historical accuracy of EB is unmatched in TW mods I would trust them on this.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowwalker View Post
    Voted for Phoenicians.
    Punic was the term used by Romans only as phoen!x stated and Carthaginians would remind too much of vanilla RTW.
    *has another idea*
    What about calling them generally Qart'Hadastim as in EB? Since the historical accuracy of EB is unmatched in TW mods I would trust them on this.
    Yes, just read that too. "Qart-Hadašt" was the new town of Phoenician settlers called. Well, it would be interesting to know whether it was connected to the rest of their land/empire or not ?

    But it seems not because the Roman gave them an own name ...
    Last edited by phoen!x; February 23, 2009 at 10:55 AM.

  9. #9
    Lord of Lost Socks's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Voted for Phoenicians. (copied from Shadowwalker. I'm a lazy basturd. Also, I realize it took me longer to write this....)

    I just like the way Phoenicians sounds

    Also, I think it doesn't matter that much.

    “The human eye is a wonderful device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice.”

  10. #10

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    yeah ! It sounds like (and comes from) 'Phoenix' (who was a greek half god) , right ?
    Last edited by phoen!x; February 23, 2009 at 11:04 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Personally i would prefer Punic as it captures the Phoenician/Libyan fusion that was Carthage more so than Phoenician.Phoenician carries too many semitic connotations in my mind and Punic sounds more...mongrelistic is how i would describe it

    Also it would make more sense for the Latin name to be presented as the dominant view point in this mod as we only know what we know about them from hostile historians(Livy,Polybius Horace etc) ...and the time period the mod takes place in the Carthaginians would have been less orientalisied(sp)(even though they were as decadent as their Eastern brethren...before Alexander massacred the Tyrians) and they would have been toughened up by their dealings with the savage tribes throughout their domain and their extensive mercenary pool's.

    After all dont we know the majority of the native Italian tribes from their Latin/Greek name's and not what they would have called themselves ... Why should the Carthagians be any different?

    P.S.Doesn't Carthage literally mean New Town(Kart=New Hadast=Town)so Carthaginian would mean new towners or something ridiculous like that!
    Last edited by Fionn son of Cumhaill; February 23, 2009 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Clarify a point...and I had an epiphany:)

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowwalker View Post
    Voted for Phoenicians.
    Punic was the term used by Romans only as phoen!x stated and Carthaginians would remind too much of vanilla RTW.
    I agree with this bit...
    Voted Phoenician.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    yeah, but I think the Phoenicians didn not really have much in common with the chartagians .. So 'Punic' in my eyes !

    I guess it would be as if you would call all the americans english or so ... because the 'pilgrims' on the mayflower came from there.
    Last edited by phoen!x; February 23, 2009 at 12:23 PM.

  14. #14
    Ballacraine's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Well, I am a believer in the old engineering acronym KISS.

    ( Keep it Simple, Stupid! )

    So for clarity, I voted Carthagianian.

    In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    SigniferOne, forgot to mention that I really like the idea of letting the people vote that wait for PI II.
    Good example of PR.
    'PI team cares for your opinion. You have influence.'

  16. #16
    Gertrudius's Avatar Hans Olo
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    My personal preference is Phoenician. It places emphases on their cultural connection with the Phoenician cities on the Levant coast, a connection which is forgotten all to often. Although the Carthaginians diversified from their original origins, they maintained many aspects of religion and language from their original homeland.

    I also read in a book that spent some time exploring these connections, that the Carthaginian penchant for brutality to captured enemies and even their own failed generals can be traced to the Assyrian sieges of Tyre, where the Phoenicians learned brutality from the best, and this was in turn transmitted to their colonies. This is an implication of the connectivity of Phoenician culture around the Mediterranean in the 7th century BC.

    In the end, my ramblings are meant to reaffirm my reasoning for voting for Phoenician.

    Take it easy,

  17. #17

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    My personal preference is Phoenician. It places emphases on their cultural connection with the Phoenician cities on the Levant coast, a connection which is forgotten all to often. Although the Carthaginians diversified from their original origins, they maintained many aspects of religion and language from their original homeland.
    This.
    Is minic a gheibhean beal oscailt diog dunta!
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Hmm, it appears that the yeas have it!


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  19. #19

    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Phoenician is a mouthful, Punic sounds better...



  20. #20
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    Default Re: Name for the Carthaginians

    Punic all the way!
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